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Why are Christians patriotic?

Niels

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But there is a statistic correlation. Such as in US, the percentage of Christians supporting Trump is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. And in Russia, the percentage of Christians supporting Putin is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. Can somebody explain the reason for this statistical correlation?
The reasons probably differ somewhat. In the US, for instance, more Christians support Trump because the Republican party platform is pro-life. US Evangelical Christians are numerous, politically powerful, and maintain an adamantly pro-life stance. In Russia, I presume that more Christians support Putin because Putin endorses the Russian Orthodox Church. Russian believers who practice a wide variety of religions enjoy greater religious freedom than they did in the recent past. A change from when the Soviet government endorsed, and often enforced, Atheism.
 
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Roman57

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The reasons probably differ. In the US, for instance, more Christians support Trump than Biden because the Republican party platform is pro-life. US Evangelical Christians are numerous, politically powerful, and maintain an adamantly pro-life stance.

Lets look at the following Republican stances:

a) Pro-life
b) Anti-gay
c) Patriotism
d) Don't believe in global warming
e) Support second Amandment
f) Want to lower taxes
g) Want to close borders
h) Opposition to Biden loan forgiveness

Now consider the following two scenarios:

Scenario 1: Christians, statistically, care about a and b, but they dont care ablut c-h. They vote Republican because of a and b

Scenario 2: Christians vote Republican because they agree with them on all eight pounts, both a,b and also c-h

Logically, Scenario 1 should take place. But in practice Scenario 2 takes place. So why is it they actively support points c-h instead of just voting Republican to get a and b?

In Russia, I presume that more Christians support Putin because Putin endorses the Russian Orthodox Church. Russian believers who practice a wide variety of religions enjoy greater religious freedom than they did in the recent past. A change from when the Soviet government endorsed, and often enforced, Atheism.

Yeltsin also allowed freedom of religion (after all, he broke up USSR). Yet they like specifically Putin. And I assume some opposition parties would allow freedom of religion too (again, since USSR is over). Yet they still only support Putin.
 
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Niels

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Lets look at the following Republican stances:

a) Pro-life
b) Anti-gay
c) Patriotism
d) Don't believe in global warming
e) Support second Amandment
f) Want to lower taxes
g) Want to close borders
h) Opposition to Biden loan forgiveness

Now consider the following two scenarios:

Scenario 1: Christians, statistically, care about a and b, but they dont care ablut c-h. They vote Republican because of a and b

Scenario 2: Christians vote Republican because they agree with them on all eight pounts, both a,b and also c-h

Logically, Scenario 1 should take place. But in practice Scenario 2 takes place. So why is it they actively support points c-h instead of just voting Republican to get a and b?
I wouldn't call Democrats unpatriotic.

It seems to me that the linchpin issue of the Republican party is abortion. When interpreted through this lens, Republicans make more sense to me. The GOP used to be a party of civil rights, the rule of law, and the free market. I think contemporary Republican voters have been manipulated to accept increasingly problematic secondary and tertiary issues if it gets a pro-life candidate into office. Over time, those issues have become more ingrained in Republican culture. Like a twisted caricature of what it used to be.

Meanwhile they often spend more than the Democrats, turn a blind eye to civil rights issues, and increasingly flaunt the law. They've accumulated a distinctly unchristian set of attitudes, in my opinion. Which is why, despite being pro-life, I am not a Republican.

There was a time when US patriotism didn't entail the mindless support of everything this country does. Its roots are in the great experiment that is our system of governance. A convergence of religious freedom and enlightenment ideals. Drafted by individuals who wanted to escape tyranny of body and mind. No more kings or state-enforced religions. Christians (they were predominantly Christian) were free to found hospitals and the Ivy League universities, to end slavery, to give women the right to vote, etc. Yes, archaic and cruel practices like slavery needed to be ended, but we've continually sought better solutions to the problems of humanity and implemented them. That's something US citizens have reason to be patriotic about.


Yeltsin also allowed freedom of religion (after all, he broke up USSR). Yet they like specifically Putin. And I assume some opposition parties would allow freedom of religion too (again, since USSR is over). Yet they still only support Putin.
The breakup of the Soviet Union happened under Mikhail Gorbachev.

Yeltsin wasn't the Russian president for long. He was a drunkard and an ineffective leader. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Putin either. If Alexei Navalny was still alive, I would have liked to see him in charge. Either way, Russia needs legitimate term limits.
 
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Vambram

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I am a born-again Christian, a constitutional conservative, and I am also a veteran of the active duty Army as well as the Army National Guard with 27 years of service. My father retired out of the US Air Force after 21 years of service. In the following order of priorities, I Love the Lord first, my wife and family second, my church and my friends, and then the USA.
 
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I am a born-again Christian, a constitutional conservative, and I am also a veteran of the active duty Army as well as the Army National Guard with 27 years of service. My father retired out of the US Air Force after 21 years of service. In the following order of priorities, I Love the Lord first, my wife and family second, my church and my friends, and then the USA.
Amen to this. I have known a lot of people who sadly prioritize the US over the Lord, or friends over family. God bless you for having the Lord first.

For myself, it is Jesus, parents, friends, church and then Israel, as God favors His homeland over any other nation, and finally, the US. Now, Israel is not perfect, nor is the IDF, but there are Arab Christians* in Israel who spread the Gospel, and peace. Now, I am not patriotic as a centrist Christian (as I am scrupulous and worry about accidental idolatry), but am blessed to be living in one of the safest nations in the world, as there is minimal persecution against Christians in the US compared to in China, Nigeria or even parts of Europe. Also, thank you for your service for protecting the US, and thank your father for protecting the skies above.

US is one of the safest countries. Also confirmed by. Iceland is the safest: Here are the safest — and most dangerous — countries for travel in 2024

1720329214652.png


*Pastor Saleem (pro-Israel, pro-peace Arab Christian):
 
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Roman57

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In the following order of priorities, I Love the Lord first, my wife and family second, my church and my friends, and then the USA.

But still there is the following correlation. If Lord is number 1, then USA is number 4, but if Lord is number 100, then USA is number 24. So why is it, when Lord is rated higher, USA gets rated higher too?
 
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Roman57

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I wouldn't call Democrats unpatriotic.

Well, at least they are less patriotic. Because if someone likes to display the US flag, there is a very good chance that person is Republican.

But that is another good question. If we speak of Biblically-conservative values, such as the views on homosexuality, then Russia is a lot truer to those values than US. And the same applies to most other countries in the world, except for the west, which is actually a minority. So I am not sure why would US patriots assume that US is embodiment of biblical type of conservatism.

It is true that founding fathers did hold conservative values, US just drifted away from them. But again, lots of other countries hold conservative values too. So founding fathers weren't any more anti-gay or anti-abortion than most other people outside of the west (or including the west, too, if we talk about their time). So I don't see why they credit the US with it.

It seems to me that the linchpin issue of the Republican party is abortion. When interpreted through this lens, Republicans make more sense to me. The GOP used to be a party of civil rights, the rule of law, and the free market. I think contemporary Republican voters have been manipulated to accept increasingly problematic secondary and tertiary issues if it gets a pro-life candidate into office. Over time, those issues have become more ingrained in Republican culture. Like a twisted caricature of what it used to be.

Can you describe how anti-abortion and anti-gay ended up evolving into all those other things that are seemingly irrelevant? Even though you personally disagree with it, fact remains: they did evolve somehow. So I would like to know how.
Yeltsin wasn't the Russian president for long. He was a drunkard and an ineffective leader. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Putin either. If Alexei Navalny was still alive, I would have liked to see him in charge. Either way, Russia needs legitimate term limits.

Yeltsin was there for 9 years, from 1991 to the end of 1999. So it is hardly a short time.

But anyway, I can rephrase my question with Navalny. Why did Russian Christians support Putin and not Navalny if Navalny would grant them religious freedom too?
 
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CoreyD

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Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds?
The Bible tells us why this has happened.

First, the Bible says that Christians were no part of the world, but were to love one another as a united family of brothers in every part of the world. John 15:17-20; John 17:14-17; 1 Peter 2:17; 1 John 2:10; 1 John 4:21
This uniting bond of love, and being obedient to Jesus word to be no part of the world, identified one as a Christian - a true follower of Christ. John 8:31, 32; John 13:34, 35

Thus patriotism is incompatible with Christianity instituted and directed by Jesus.
However, because the prophecies regarding the falling away from the teachings of Jesus (Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 2 Timothy 4:3, 4), have been fulfilled, this is the result of what you are seeing today.
 
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Vambram

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The answer to this question depends on the meaning of the word “patriotic.” As with many words, there are different nuances of meaning, and different people use the word in different ways. For example, at its simplest meaning being patriotic simply means “loving one’s country.” As long as that love for country does not supersede one’s love for God, and if it is kept in proper perspective, there is nothing wrong with a Christian being patriotic. However, another definition of “patriotic” implies that the individual should place the interests of the nation above his or her personal and group interests. Carried to this extreme, patriotism can become a form of idolatry, particularly if one’s love for his country is greater than his love for God and God’s plan of redeeming people from “every tribe, tongue and nation.”

As far as a Christian’s responsibility towards government, we know from Romans 13:1-7 that we are to be subject to the governing authorities and to honor them, even when they are not honorable, because it is ultimately God who has placed them in authority over us. So, as Christians, we are under obligation to God to be model citizens, subject to the governing authorities over us by obeying laws, paying taxes, etc. However, our responsibilities are first and foremost to be obedient to God. In America, a constitutional republic where individual citizens have the ability to change and influence government by voting or by being politically involved when appropriate and in appropriate ways, part of being a good citizen is voting and having whatever positive influence we can on government.

In countries where Christians have no say in the decisions of their leaders, it is more difficult to be patriotic. It is very hard to love oppressive governments. However, as Christians we are still obligated to pray for our leaders (1 Timothy 2:1-4). God will honor our obedience to this command, and in His perfect timing, He will judge leaders who turn away from Him. Should a Christian be patriotic? Within reason, yes. At the same time, a Christian’s ultimate faith, love, and obedience are to be reserved for God alone.
 
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Niels

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Well, at least they are less patriotic. Because if someone likes to display the US flag, there is a very good chance that person is Republican.
Displaying the flag is a cultural practice. In my neighborhood, for instance, most of the houses display an American flag. Republicans and Democrats alike. It doesn't tell you who is more patriotic. I'd argue that a better measure of patriotism is participation in our political system. Civic engagement, voting, trying to make this country a better place, defending the country etc.

But that is another good question. If we speak of Biblically-conservative values, such as the views on homosexuality, then Russia is a lot truer to those values than US. And the same applies to most other countries in the world, except for the west, which is actually a minority. So I am not sure why would US patriots assume that US is embodiment of biblical type of conservatism.

It is true that founding fathers did hold conservative values, US just drifted away from them. But again, lots of other countries hold conservative values too. So founding fathers weren't any more anti-gay or anti-abortion than most other people outside of the west (or including the west, too, if we talk about their time). So I don't see why they credit the US with it.
If anything, the founding fathers were liberal. Personal liberty was valued from the Mayflower Compact to the Declaration of Independence. Our form of government was highly progressive. If they were conservative, then the US would have been a monarchy. We wouldn't have the Constitution or the Bill of Rights as we know them.

Along with being more politically liberal than conservative, most of our founders practiced Christianity. They were Bible believing Christians and followed God's word. Not because they were conservatives but because they were Christians.

Biblically conservative values are only conservative to the extent that people seek to conserve then. They are not the natural state of affairs. Freedoms, including freedoms we take for granted such as religious freedom, can be lost in the blink of an eye if we're not careful.

Can you describe how anti-abortion and anti-gay ended up evolving into all those other things that are seemingly irrelevant? Even though you personally disagree with it, fact remains: they did evolve somehow. So I would like to know how.
Yes, it did evolve into what we see today. My theory is that once this hot-button issue took over the party, there was less recourse for liberal and moderate Republicans. Progressives want to implement new changes. Conservatives prefer to stick to the tried and true. As the moderates and liberals left the GOP, it became less progressive.

For a more comprehensive answer, read up on 20th century US history. Preferably, from multiple sources.



Yeltsin was there for 9 years, from 1991 to the end of 1999. So it is hardly a short time.

But anyway, I can rephrase my question with Navalny. Why did Russian Christians support Putin and not Navalny if Navalny would grant them religious freedom too?
Fear of standing too close to open windows in tall buildings. Russia has a long and bloody history regarding people who oppose its ever changing systems of government. To support Navalny, one had to be brave.

Also, I wouldn't put much faith in Russian election results.
 
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Displaying the flag is a cultural practice. In my neighborhood, for instance, most of the houses display an American flag. Republicans and Democrats alike.

But if you do the statistics across the whole country, then Republicans display flag more often than Democrats.

It doesn't tell you who is more patriotic. I'd argue that a better measure of patriotism is participation in our political system. Civic engagement, voting, trying to make this country a better place, defending the country etc.

No, because people on the left would be doing it too, not just people on the right. If anything, both far left and far right are being more politically active than people in the center.

When I say patriotic what I mean is supporting the greatness of the US. And thats not always the same as wanting to better people's lifes: people in the left argue that in order to better people's lifes they need to get rid of the idea of the greatness of their country.

If anything, the founding fathers were liberal. Personal liberty was valued from the Mayflower Compact to the Declaration of Independence.,

In today's political language, supporting liberty would be Libertarian, not Liberal. As far as Liberal vs Conservative, each side supports liberty in something and opposes liberty in something else, but Libertarians support liberty across the board. For example, as far as liberty to do abortion, then yes Liberals are more supportive of that particular liberty. But as far as liberty to own guns, there the Conservatives are more supportive of that liberty. Yet Libertarians are supportive of liberty all across the board.

Its true though that the word Liberal originated from the word liberty, just by looking at its linguistic structure. But I guess over time it evolved into something other than what it was first invented for. Just like in the other posts you mentioned how Christian views have evolved from simply being anti-abortion/anti-gay to a lot of other things, in the same way liberal views might have evolved, and thats why the new word Libertarian needed to be invented.

So it goes back to what I was asking in this thread: why do logically unrelated views go together? If everything were to be logical, then we would have two major parties: Libertarians who are pro-liberty all across the board and Statists who are anti-liberty all across the board. But, instead, our two major parties are Republicans and Democrats, each supports liberty in some thing and opposes it in the other thing. So what is the logical explanation why supporting liberty in birth control correlates with opposing liberty with guns and vice versa?

But in any case, I don't see why would Founding Fathers be Libertairan either. Because, as mentioned, Libertarians also support liberty in homosexuality/abortion just like liberals do ( they just disagree with liberals in terms of liberty to own guns). So, as Christians, I don't see how Founding Fathers would be Libertarian. This means that they would have to be Conservative, because supporting liberties that don't conflict with the Bible, while opposing liberties that do, would check both boxes.

So then what one might try to argue is that the conflict between Founding Fathers and the countries they ran away from was that Founding Fathers were Conservatives while all the other countries were Statist. Statists and Conservatives agree about the lack of liberty on homosexuality/abortion but disagree about liberties on other things (where statists oppose those "other" liberties while conservatives "support" them).

But, in terms of today's political spectrum, this wouldn't work either because monarchs DID support liberties to own guns (think of duals and stuff). So then one would say that, in order to map them to today's political spectrum, then everyone would have to be conservative, all across the board. They are just of different shades of conservative. Although, wait, you can't really say that either, because, outside of guns, there are other liberties that monarchs didn't grant people that conservatives would. So perhaps monarchs were some of a mix of conservative and statist while founding fathers were more conservative-proper.

Maybe THAT would be the logical explanation of this whole liberal vs conservative. The word "conservative" comes from the word "conserve" so they just want to "conserve" everything founding fathers were standing for. Even if those topics are not logically related, the founding fathers had opinions on all of them and so conservatives take whatever opinions they were. Liberals, on the other hand, represent a newer developed parallel cultures. In anything they agree with conservatives (such as it is a bad idea to kill each other) we won't notice, but we notice the stuff they disagree on.

But in any case, back to the question raised in OP: what does it have to do with the Bible? In Conservative vs Liberal, yes, Bible would make us side with Conservative (over abortion and homosexuality). But in Conservative vs Statist, the Bible is pretty much silent, since both sides would agree as far as abortion and homosexuality is concerned. In other words, yes, Founding Fathers opposed abortion and homosexuality, but so did all the monarchs, so Founding Fathers can't be credited with that.

Could it be that the logic behind this is "not" that someone "first" became a Christian and "then" started to support Founding Fathers because they were Christian, but rather the other way around: someone "first" supported Founding Fathers (out of historical pride) and "then" became Christian because Founding Fathers were Christian? I realize that people can say that they are Christian first and Patriot second. But could it be that, in time sequence, they first became patriot but then they realize "hey, our founding fathers were putting Christianity before their patriotism, let us do the same" and thats how they were "led" to become Christian first, patriot second?

And this would explain other countries too including Russia. Whether you take Russia or the US, Christianity is viewed as a part of the culture. So could it be that people didn't become Christian because Jesus called them but, instead, they became Christian because they liked the culture of their country and that culture included Christianity; but then, later, they said "hey, the Christianity that I learned from my country actually asks me to put God first and my country second, let me do the same".

Yes, it did evolve into what we see today. My theory is that once this hot-button issue took over the party, there was less recourse for liberal and moderate Republicans.

This theory still begs the question. Because what you are assuming is that liberal and moderate Republicans might be pro-gay and pro-abortion, while truly conservative Republicans (the ones who oppose homosexuality and abortion) would agree with the currently-republican stances on other issues as well. So you are assuming that this correlation existed in the past too: it just wasn't across the party lines. But the question is: why did that correlation exist on the first place?

Fear of standing too close to open windows in tall buildings. Russia has a long and bloody history regarding people who oppose its ever changing systems of government. To support Navalny, one had to be brave.

Yeah, but some people did support Navalny. So why is it, statistically, people that supported Navalny were less likely to be Christian than people that supported Putin?
 
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eleos1954

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What is your denomination? The reason I am asking is that I been attending Adventist churches a lot, even though I am not Adventist, I am Messianic, but I like to attend all Saturday-keeping churches that I can so I can compare them. Anyway, a lot of what you just said sound like Adventist teaching. Thats why I wanted to ask.

I guess when you said "No woman is born a harlot" it makes it sound like you aren't really Adventist, since reformers kept sunday and you don't regard them as being born harlot. Although I do remember adventists having a set of quotes from various Christians, including reformers and even Martin Luther admitting they should be keeping saturday. But fact remains that they didn't.
I don't have a denomination ... I do not attend church ... I have for many years studied on my own and continue to do so. I was raised in a secular home and had no pre-formed beliefs of any kind.

When I decided to seriously consider christianity .... I studied all the various denomination theologies and compared them to the written word and still do. I most certainly do not consider myself an authority on the various theologies ... however have studied many of them and put forth what I have learned ... I always keep an open mind about things. Some things have been settled in my mind.

Many of the reformers came out of/from catholic background .... most prominently Martin Luther of course ... this happened in the 16th century.

The Reformation of the 16th century was not unprecedented. Reformers within the medieval church such as St. Francis of Assisi, Valdes (founder of the Waldensians), Jan Hus, and John Wycliffe addressed aspects in the life of the church in the centuries before 1517. In the 16th century Erasmus of Rotterdam, a great humanist scholar, was the chief proponent of liberal Catholic reform that attacked popular superstitions in the church and urged the imitation of Christ as the supreme moral teacher. These figures reveal an ongoing concern for renewal within the church in the years before Luther is said to have posted his Ninety-five Theses on the door of the Castle Church, Wittenberg, Germany, on October 31, 1517, the eve of All Saints’ Day—the traditional date for the beginning of the Reformation.

For roughly 1000 years, reading the Bible was not readily available to people. But there was a man named William Tyndale who courageously said, “I’m going to translate the Scriptures and make them available to the public.” His determination eventually cost him his life in 1536.

The formation of the Bible indeed has a long and deep progressive History ... no doubt about that.

Some of these folks hung on to some previous false teachings (ignorant of some of them) ... just like us .... the more they studied the more they learned (just as we do or should do). So, some of the various "protestant" denominations that came about .... found/discovered important truth(s) and basically started and built their denomination (beliefs) around or mainly focusing on what had been discovered/revealed to them through the Word of God. ie Baptists focusing on baptism by submersion, methodists - methods of studying, Calvinism the sovereignty of God etc. So they carried some "preconceived excess baggage" so to speak ... and many still do and have not moved on as other things have been revealed/discovered.

It took a lot of time to do this as they did not have the modern technology that is available to us today. We live in a marvelous time in that regard where we can research things deeply and quickly. Amen!!!

When we study the history in the Bible we see throughout history it not unusual for man to not understand the written word and/or misinterpretating it. God does not reveal himself all at once ... that is why it is called a walk.

When I studied SDA teachings one of the major things that was huge for me was the study and understanding of the sanctuary both the earthly and the heavenly. The other thing that had been bothering me was the 7th day Sabbath and it being in the 10 commandments .... this was very heavy on my heart for a long time. Since I have come to know the importance of it have been keeping it ... it is such a blessing and I no longer have a heavy heart about it. It is a delight!!!!!

So .. am I SDA .... no (I'm of no denomination am a child of God) ... however I do find the majority of their teachings to be spot on. Also, I like the fact that actually SDA was originally formed from folks from most all the various protestant denominations (after the great disappointment - October 22, 1844) ... so by that they were able to get some "specific truths" from all the various denominations and then were able to form/keep those teachings that were true and that aligned with the Word of God. Rather than giving up .... they went back to Gods Word and restudied ... and this is when the importance of understanding the sanctuary was revealed. So the status of the various denominations is they have not moved on and embraced further revelation that God has revealed. Also, some criticize SDA teaching in error or ignorance ... that is ... taken out of full context of what they are actually teaching about some things... important things.

SDA are a bible only church ... and I am totally on board with that ... totally.

Regardless of where teachings come from we must be like the Berean Jews

Acts 17

New International Version
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

I encourage all to set aside any preformed bias they many have (that is clear the table) and restudy/reconsider some of their beliefs. I consider myself fortunate that I never had any pre conceived teachings ... basically I started from scratch and this made me look at and consider and research many many things.

The one thing that is never to be taken off the table is .... God is love.

The other thing I want to say is that God's people are everywhere ... in most all the churches (and some not in church at all) including the catholic church ... but some are in error and He is calling them out. Babylon (confusion) is fallen ... come out of the confusion.

Revelation 18 BSB

If anyone is interested in an in depth teaching of the sanctuary DM and I'll give you a link to an in depth teaching (32 hours - youtube) ... it's worth going through and is a real eye opener. Yes it is SDA teaching ... but to my knowledge they are the only ones who throughly teach it and it is an important teaching to behold.

May we all be led to the truth through His Written Word. Amen.

Be blessed.
 
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Even though I am not a patriot, I love the song "Born in the USA" by Bruce Springsteen. The song is about how folks were forced to join the Vietnam war, and about the US mistreated veterans. I support veterans by giving to an electricity and gas fund though, as these folks defended our country. The remix is almost as good. :) Also, I am blessed to live in the USA, instead of in Eastern Europe.

Bruce Springsteen - Born in the USA (Dance Remix)
 
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Vambram

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I hope that those 3 videos I posted are a blessing to y'all. I know that these songs are powerful messages which also praise God and can bless the listeners of this music.
 
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Offline4Better.

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I hope that those 3 videos I posted are a blessing to y'all. I know that these songs are powerful messages which also praise God and can bless the listeners of this music.
I like these ones. My favorite Christian song though is Chris Tomlin - Amazing Grace. :) That song makes me tear up.
 
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rturner76

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I reject the notion that Conservatives are more patriotic. They are just more nationalist. There is a difference. WHile all nationalists are patriotic, not all patriots are nationalist.
 
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