Why are Christians patriotic?

[Roman57]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds? I mean, I can see why this would be true when it comes to State of Israel. Of course there are many opinions in terms of whether it applies to Israel today, but that's besides the point. The point is: I know that there are verses about it, there is just a disagreement on how to interpret them. But if you look at the other countries, such as either US or Russia, then those countries are not even in the Bible, so what makes Christians living in those countries think they have to be patriotic? Again, I am not asking about proper interpretation of those verses. I am asking you to simply point what those verses are. Even if you disagree with interpretation, at least you know what those verses are in case of Israel. Now, tell me what are the verses in case of US or Russia?

And yes, I mentioned US and Russia for a reason. I was born in Russia and I moved to US at the age of 14. As such, I know that Russians view Russia as a holy land. And, of course, Americans view America as such. Which makes it ironic given how Russia and US oppose each other politically. So each side thinks their side is God and the opposing side is the devil. Neither side is aware that Christians on the other side also think God is on their side (at least neither side ever mentioned it). But then again, given that Putin and Trump seem to support each other, and each of them is being supported by Christians of their respective countries, it is kind of brings those two patriotisms together; but, again, neither side seemed to acknowledge it.

As far as US goes, some say it was founded on Babilon, which would be a good reason "not to be" patriotic. I guess they argue out of it by saying that patriotism applies to the time of founding fathers, while Babilon applies to today. But this doesn't really cut it. If prophetic role of the US is to be Babilon, then it was predestined to be one even at the time of founding fathers. Yet their claim is that America's true purpose was to be the nation of God, as exemplified by founding fathers, and it simply strayed from its biblical purpose nowdays. But, if so, how can you say it is a fulfillment of prophecy of Babilon?

As far as Russia goes, I read on the internet few weeks ago that in the Old Testament there was a hostile kingdom of Rush, which is believed to be Russia. If thats the case, then how can they possibly claim to be a holy nation? Or, if they reject the idea that Rush refers to Russia, then again we are faced with the question: where is Russia in the Bible?

 

[armchairscholar]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds? I mean, I can see why this would be true when it comes to State of Israel. Of course there are many opinions in terms of whether it applies to Israel today, but that's besides the point. The point is: I know that there are verses about it, there is just a disagreement on how to interpret them. But if you look at the other countries, such as either US or Russia, then those countries are not even in the Bible, so what makes Christians living in those countries think they have to be patriotic? Again, I am not asking about proper interpretation of those verses. I am asking you to simply point what those verses are. Even if you disagree with interpretation, at least you know what those verses are in case of Israel. Now, tell me what are the verses in case of US or Russia?

And yes, I mentioned US and Russia for a reason. I was born in Russia and I moved to US at the age of 14. As such, I know that Russians view Russia as a holy land. And, of course, Americans view America as such. Which makes it ironic given how Russia and US oppose each other politically. So each side thinks their side is God and the opposing side is the devil. Neither side is aware that Christians on the other side also think God is on their side (at least neither side ever mentioned it). But then again, given that Putin and Trump seem to support each other, and each of them is being supported by Christians of their respective countries, it is kind of brings those two patriotisms together; but, again, neither side seemed to acknowledge it.

As far as US goes, some say it was founded on Babilon, which would be a good reason "not to be" patriotic. I guess they argue out of it by saying that patriotism applies to the time of founding fathers, while Babilon applies to today. But this doesn't really cut it. If prophetic role of the US is to be Babilon, then it was predestined to be one even at the time of founding fathers. Yet their claim is that America's true purpose was to be the nation of God, as exemplified by founding fathers, and it simply strayed from its biblical purpose nowdays. But, if so, how can you say it is a fulfillment of prophecy of Babilon?

As far as Russia goes, I read on the internet few weeks ago that in the Old Testament there was a hostile kingdom of Rush, which is believed to be Russia. If thats the case, then how can they possibly claim to be a holy nation? Or, if they reject the idea that Rush refers to Russia, then again we are faced with the question: where is Russia in the Bible?

Depends on what you mean by "Patriotism" -- If you see patriotism as a sense of responsibility and commitment to contribute to the common good of the nation and its people, there are biblical grounds for that. If you see it as blind allegiance to your country, no, there isn't a biblical basis for that

 

[com7fy8]

For prophecy, I suppose a country now could be "holy", but then it could change later to become Babylon.

But this would contradict another idea that I have. I understand that what God does will last and will grow and get better. So, this would mean there is a problem with the claim that America started as a Christian nation.

About patriotism, you be loyal to and a good *example* of how we need to be and to live as a country. And God will honor what we do His way.

"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 15:58)

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

 

[Bobber]

Good question. How far does one take Patriotisms Maybe it's like the idea that there's two ditches on each side of a road. If you live in basically a good country you might want to give it your support standing for the common good. Can go to extreme though and can make some obnoxious and condescending to others if one is always harping on I live in the best nation on Earth.....and saying this in the presence of people from other countries.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds? I mean, I can see why this would be true when it comes to State of Israel. Of course there are many opinions in terms of whether it applies to Israel today, but that's besides the point. The point is: I know that there are verses about it, there is just a disagreement on how to interpret them. But if you look at the other countries, such as either US or Russia, then those countries are not even in the Bible, so what makes Christians living in those countries think they have to be patriotic? Again, I am not asking about proper interpretation of those verses. I am asking you to simply point what those verses are. Even if you disagree with interpretation, at least you know what those verses are in case of Israel. Now, tell me what are the verses in case of US or Russia?

And yes, I mentioned US and Russia for a reason. I was born in Russia and I moved to US at the age of 14. As such, I know that Russians view Russia as a holy land. And, of course, Americans view America as such. Which makes it ironic given how Russia and US oppose each other politically. So each side thinks their side is God and the opposing side is the devil. Neither side is aware that Christians on the other side also think God is on their side (at least neither side ever mentioned it). But then again, given that Putin and Trump seem to support each other, and each of them is being supported by Christians of their respective countries, it is kind of brings those two patriotisms together; but, again, neither side seemed to acknowledge it.

As far as US goes, some say it was founded on Babilon, which would be a good reason "not to be" patriotic. I guess they argue out of it by saying that patriotism applies to the time of founding fathers, while Babilon applies to today. But this doesn't really cut it. If prophetic role of the US is to be Babilon, then it was predestined to be one even at the time of founding fathers. Yet their claim is that America's true purpose was to be the nation of God, as exemplified by founding fathers, and it simply strayed from its biblical purpose nowdays. But, if so, how can you say it is a fulfillment of prophecy of Babilon?

As far as Russia goes, I read on the internet few weeks ago that in the Old Testament there was a hostile kingdom of Rush, which is believed to be Russia. If thats the case, then how can they possibly claim to be a holy nation? Or, if they reject the idea that Rush refers to Russia, then again we are faced with the question: where is Russia in the Bible?

I'm not and I am a Christian. I go by this definition and I have no devotion towards USA.

"having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country."

Now for the life of me I just don't get Christian Nationalism one bit. It goes entirely against scripture when using the definition above.
Blessings

 

[bèlla]

I'm not a patriot and a most of the things you see are idolatrous. They worship America.

~bella

 

[Tuur]

Good question. How far does one take Patriotisms Maybe it's like the idea that there's two ditches on each side of a road. If you live in basically a good country you might want to give it your support standing for the common good. Can go to extreme though and can make some obnoxious and condescending to others if one is always harping on I live in the best nation on Earth.....and saying this in the presence of people from other countries.

It's worth noting that Paul, to the Romans, wrote on obedience to civil authorities but didn't say to only do so if the country was good. Christians have always been in the position of following civil laws that did not conflict with the command of God. That comes from Peter's reply at being commanded not to speak or teach in Jesus' name.

It's also worth noting that Christians of Paul's era was already seeing some persecution, so Paul was writing about following civil laws of nations hostile to Christians.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds?

Hey, do not make blanket statements. Not all Christians are patriotic. I am a Christian, and I am not patriotic, as that is a form of idolatry.

A word on idolatry and patriotism:

In Matthew 5:34, Jesus says "But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool." This verse emphasizes the importance of avoiding making oaths, even if it means losing an opportunity to boast about oneself or one's nation.

Exodus 20:4 states "You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters under the sea."

These two verses remind us that true devotion should be directed away from material possessions or human constructs. Fervent patriotism can also become an idol, leading us astray from the truth. Let us strive to approach all things with humility and gratitude for what God has given us, rather than becoming overly attached to worldly values and beliefs. These words from above are the reasons why I do not celebrate the 4th or sing any anthems or pledge. The only holidays I celebrate are Christmas, Easter, New Year, and Thanksgiving (thankful for Jesus and family).

 

[Roman57]

Hey, do not make blanket statements. Not all Christians are patriotic.

But there is a statistic correlation. Such as in US, the percentage of Christians supporting Trump is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. And in Russia, the percentage of Christians supporting Putin is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. Can somebody explain the reason for this statistical correlation?

 

[Offline4Better.]

But there is a statistic correlation. Such as in US, the percentage of Christians supporting Trump is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. And in Russia, the percentage of Christians supporting Putin is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. Can somebody explain the reason for this statistical correlation?

I am not sure, but probably cos a lot of Christians are Cafeteria Christians, and pick and choose what pleases their ears.

Many atheists seem to be nicer than some Christians, because the Devil targets Christians the most, to make Christianity look bad.

 

[bèlla]

But there is a statistic correlation. Such as in US, the percentage of Christians supporting Trump is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. And in Russia, the percentage of Christians supporting Putin is higher than the percentage of non-Christians supporting him. Can somebody explain the reason for this statistical correlation?

Many tie their support to faith and even suggest they were put there by God. Which requires a lot of wrangling and strange deductions I don't understand. The more you dig in the harder it is to change. They'd be forced to admit they were wrong, the Lord wasn't involved and they deceived themselves.

~bella

 

[eleos1954]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds? I mean, I can see why this would be true when it comes to State of Israel. Of course there are many opinions in terms of whether it applies to Israel today, but that's besides the point. The point is: I know that there are verses about it, there is just a disagreement on how to interpret them. But if you look at the other countries, such as either US or Russia, then those countries are not even in the Bible, so what makes Christians living in those countries think they have to be patriotic? Again, I am not asking about proper interpretation of those verses. I am asking you to simply point what those verses are. Even if you disagree with interpretation, at least you know what those verses are in case of Israel. Now, tell me what are the verses in case of US or Russia?

And yes, I mentioned US and Russia for a reason. I was born in Russia and I moved to US at the age of 14. As such, I know that Russians view Russia as a holy land. And, of course, Americans view America as such. Which makes it ironic given how Russia and US oppose each other politically. So each side thinks their side is God and the opposing side is the devil. Neither side is aware that Christians on the other side also think God is on their side (at least neither side ever mentioned it). But then again, given that Putin and Trump seem to support each other, and each of them is being supported by Christians of their respective countries, it is kind of brings those two patriotisms together; but, again, neither side seemed to acknowledge it.

As far as US goes, some say it was founded on Babilon, which would be a good reason "not to be" patriotic. I guess they argue out of it by saying that patriotism applies to the time of founding fathers, while Babilon applies to today. But this doesn't really cut it. If prophetic role of the US is to be Babilon, then it was predestined to be one even at the time of founding fathers. Yet their claim is that America's true purpose was to be the nation of God, as exemplified by founding fathers, and it simply strayed from its biblical purpose nowdays. But, if so, how can you say it is a fulfillment of prophecy of Babilon?

As far as Russia goes, I read on the internet few weeks ago that in the Old Testament there was a hostile kingdom of Rush, which is believed to be Russia. If thats the case, then how can they possibly claim to be a holy nation? Or, if they reject the idea that Rush refers to Russia, then again we are faced with the question: where is Russia in the Bible?

All roads lead to Rome ... it's not about the literal country of Israel

There are Old Testament prophecies, of which the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel 38 is one, which are conditional; that is, they are prophecies which would have happened had other events taken place. If the nation of Israel would have remained faithful to their covenant obligations, Ezekiel 38 and 39 would have occurred. But Israel did not remain faithful; they forsook God. Thus, the conditional prophecy did not take place. This is why the gospel went to the gentiles becoming their responsibility to spread the good news.

Babylon .... there will be an end time church system that embraces all religions (this is Babylon - the first beast) that is already taking place through the papacy. The papacy seeks to unite all religions and that is very clear.

Old Testament Babylon was established in direct opposition to the plain commands of God. It was a human system of religion based on the traditions and authority of men rather than God. It was man-centered rather than God-centered. (This is catholic church system)

There will be a powerful country that will make an image to the beast ... that is ... support the first beast.

Revelation 13:11 -
AMP
Then I saw another beast (America) rising up out of the earth; he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke like a dragon.

Presents itself as a christian nation(America apostate Protestantism) but supports the first beast so is not truly a christian nation.

There is the mother of harlots (catholic system) and daughters (apostate Protestantism).

There are some (many) of the churches that originally protested the false teachings of mother Babylon and left her during the great Protestant Reformation.

They began to mimic the principles and actions of the mother and thus became fallen themselves. No woman is born a harlot. Neither were the symbolic Protestant daughter churches born fallen. Any church or organization that teaches and follows Babylon’s false doctrines and practices could become a fallen church or daughter. So Babylon is a family name that embraces both the Mother Church and those of her daughters who are also fallen.

Protestants are now are returning to "mother".

It is true America was founded using basic moral Christian principles ... but they were Protestant biblical principals (this is important to remember). Freedom of religion to worship according to ones conscience ... that is .... is not forced ... including christianity .... of which is God's biblical principle ... He does not force himself on anyone ... nor should our country.

Protestants are ignoring or are ignorant of the truth that came through the reformation ... they need to wake up! The word Babylon represents confusion and that is where many protestants are right now ..... confused.

God is calling his people out of confusion.

Revelation 18
Berean Literal Bible
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: "Come out of her, my people, so that you may not have fellowship in her sins, and so that you may not receive of her plagues.

 

[Roman57]

Many atheists seem to be nicer than some Christians, because the Devil targets Christians the most, to make Christianity look bad.

People have free will. So, even if they were influenced by the devil, they can still have some logical rationale behind what they do. And that rationale would go to some scriptures they misinterpret. Which is what makes me wonder what those scriptures are.

You should also notice that devil doesn't make them look bad in arbitrary ways. He makes them look bad in some specific ways. So, again, there is a reason as to why there is one set of ways of being bad that occurs more frequently among Christians, and a completely different set of ways of being bad that occurs most frequently among atheists. Why the correlation?

 

[Roman57]

Many tie their support to faith and even suggest they were put there by God.

And my question is: what are they basing their idea on? Even though you already told me you disagree with their reasoning, I am still curious to know what "is" their reasoning, that you happened to disagree with?

 

[Offline4Better.]

People have free will. So, even if they were influenced by the devil, they can still have some logical rationale behind what they do. And that rationale would go to some scriptures they misinterpret. Which is what makes me wonder what those scriptures are.

True. People do have free will. This is a scripture about how the devil tries to devour us. Thankfully, Jesus protects us.

1 Peter 5:8-9 (ESV): "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world."

 

[Roman57]

All roads lead to Rome ... it's not about the literal country of Israel

There are Old Testament prophecies, of which the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel 38 is one, which are conditional; that is, they are prophecies which would have happened had other events taken place. If the nation of Israel would have remained faithful to their covenant obligations, Ezekiel 38 and 39 would have occurred. But Israel did not remain faithful; they forsook God. Thus, the conditional prophecy did not take place. This is why the gospel went to the gentiles becoming their responsibility to spread the good news.

Babylon .... there will be an end time church system that embraces all religions (this is Babylon - the first beast) that is already taking place through the papacy. The papacy seeks to unite all religions and that is very clear.

Old Testament Babylon was established in direct opposition to the plain commands of God. It was a human system of religion based on the traditions and authority of men rather than God. It was man-centered rather than God-centered. (This is catholic church system)

There will be a powerful country that will make an image to the beast ... that is ... support the first beast.

Revelation 13:11 -
AMP
Then I saw another beast (America) rising up out of the earth; he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke like a dragon.

Presents itself as a christian nation(America apostate Protestantism) but supports the first beast so is not truly a christian nation.

There is the mother of harlots (catholic system) and daughters (apostate Protestantism).

There are some (many) of the churches that originally protested the false teachings of mother Babylon and left her during the great Protestant Reformation.

They began to mimic the principles and actions of the mother and thus became fallen themselves. No woman is born a harlot. Neither were the symbolic Protestant daughter churches born fallen. Any church or organization that teaches and follows Babylon’s false doctrines and practices could become a fallen church or daughter. So Babylon is a family name that embraces both the Mother Church and those of her daughters who are also fallen.

Protestants are now are returning to "mother".

It is true America was founded using basic moral Christian principles ... but they were Protestant biblical principals (this is important to remember). Freedom of religion to worship according to ones conscience ... that is .... is not forced ... including christianity .... of which is God's biblical principle ... He does not force himself on anyone ... nor should our country.

Protestants are ignoring or are ignorant of the truth that came through the reformation ... they need to wake up! The word Babylon represents confusion and that is where many protestants are right now ..... confused.

God is calling his people out of confusion.

Revelation 18
Berean Literal Bible
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: "Come out of her, my people, so that you may not have fellowship in her sins, and so that you may not receive of her plagues.

What is your denomination? The reason I am asking is that I been attending Adventist churches a lot, even though I am not Adventist, I am Messianic, but I like to attend all Saturday-keeping churches that I can so I can compare them. Anyway, a lot of what you just said sound like Adventist teaching. Thats why I wanted to ask.

I guess when you said "No woman is born a harlot" it makes it sound like you aren't really Adventist, since reformers kept sunday and you don't regard them as being born harlot. Although I do remember adventists having a set of quotes from various Christians, including reformers and even Martin Luther admitting they should be keeping saturday. But fact remains that they didn't.

 

[bèlla]

And my question is: what are they basing their idea on? Even though you already told me you disagree with their reasoning, I am still curious to know what "is" their reasoning, that you happened to disagree with?

There are numerous threads on the site you can reference. Just look at the ones on Trump and Biden. My disagreement is rooted in truth and morality. I can't pretend things did not occur that were verified or ignore their significance because of bias.

Trump's comments yesterday are a good example. He referred to Biden as an "old broken-down pile of crap" and said Harris was "so bad, she's so pathetic." This is not indicative of behavior befitting the Lord and pretending he's a follower is disreputable. He's not a modern Cyrus.

I don't care for the trio personally and have no delusions about their character. But I never bought into the narrative about our founding nor am I desperate for a leader. A lot of people are afraid. Things are changing rapidly and they want to go back to the way things were but we won't and they can't accept it.

~bella

 

[Roman57]

My disagreement is rooted in truth and morality. I can't pretend things did not occur that were verified or ignore their significance because of bias.

You misunderstood my question. I didn't ask why you disagree with patriots since I disagree with patriots as well. What i asked was to clarify their reasoning, even though we both disagree with them.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds?

Nope. I can't.

And neither can I show you, from a Biblical point of view, how other traditional civic values that my fellow Americans hold dear---like independence and individualism---are related to Christianity.

And I can't show you this because, well, these concepts aren't biblical.

 

[Roman57]

And neither can I show you, from a Biblical point of view, how other traditional civic values that my fellow Americans hold dear---like independence and individualism---are related to Christianity.

As far as independence and individualism, to me it seems like it was suggested in passages where Jesus refused to obey "traditions of men". Speaking of that, patriotism is one of traditions of men. So i take those passages as being "for" individualism and "against" patriotism.