Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?

[dwb001]

Have a blessed day.

-CryptoLutheran

I always do.

 

[Jipsah]

You said that God separated light from dark... that creates evening and morning, days.

It creates light and darkness., not evenings and mornings.

You are guessing

At what?

Why not the days with the sun are of multi-millennial length.

Fine, then an evening and a morning can be as long or as short as you need to suit your doctrine on Creation.

But after men were chosen the Earth speed corrected to the current setting.
Yeah, right.

How fast was it going then? How do you know? No sun to gauge the passage of time by, was there? And no humans to complain about it in any case.

So God lied to Adam about how long the creation of the Earth took?

I see nothing in Scripture where He ever discussed the matter with Adam at all. Have you ever actually read Genesis?

I never said days were x seconds long.

The number of seconds in 24 hours. You were very insistent on the 24 hours.

I am not arguing from silence but using the words as God caused to be writ.

And reading inti it whatever "meaning" yu need to suit whatever doctrine it is you've decided to follow a priori.

My opinion is based on what God said.

Delimited by the doctrine you embrace. The Scripture actually says nothing about the length of a day, does it? You assume that an evening and a morning were 24 hours, but you have nothing upon which to base that upon when there was no sun to determine what an evening and a morning were. Theologians have noted that,and dealt with it.

What is your opinion based on?
You keep saying there is evidence of an old Earth but you never show any work.

Pick up, and read, any decent book on elementary Astronomy, then then to the same with an equivalent work on Geology.

God designed and created a universe that defies human imagination. Your lot has to try and reduce it to, shall we say, manageable proportions. You'll empty the Atlantic with a teaspoon first.

 

[dwb001]

It creates light and darkness., not evenings and mornings.

At what?

Fine, then an evening and a morning can be as long or as short as you need to suit your doctrine on Creation.

How fast was it going then? How do you know? No sun to gauge the passage of time by, was there? And no humans to complain about it in any case.

I see nothing in Scripture where He ever discussed the matter with Adam at all. Have you ever actually read Genesis?

The number of seconds in 24 hours. You were very insistent on the 24 hours.

And reading inti it whatever "meaning" yu need to suit whatever doctrine it is you've decided to follow a priori.

Delimited by the doctrine you embrace. The Scripture actually says nothing about the length of a day, does it? You assume that an evening and a morning were 24 hours, but you have nothing upon which to base that upon when there was no sun to determine what an evening and a morning were. Theologians have noted that,and dealt with it.


Pick up, and read, any decent book on elementary Astronomy, then then to the same with an equivalent work on Geology.

God designed and created a universe that defies human imagination. Your lot has to try and reduce it to, shall we say, manageable proportions. You'll empty the Atlantic with a teaspoon first.

Why do you hold to the idea that there is no morning or evening without a Sun?
Put a light on one side of a basketball.
The dark side is in night and the bright side in day... no sun required, just light.
I find no evidence of old Earth in any text book for any science.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?

God

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

At the Last Supper Jesus took bread, broke it, gave it to His disciples and said "This is My body".

Is the bread of the Lord's Supper His real and literal flesh, or no?

I don't want to derail this thread, but it's my experience that the people who claim the Bible has to be taken literally, at face value, etc will, when presented with Jesus' own words, turn around and deny that Jesus meant His words literally.

-CryptoLutheran

So is it up to us humans to re-interpret the entire Bible to mean what we want it to mean then just because "At the Last Supper Jesus took bread, broke it, gave it to His disciples and said "This is My body". It says what it is there: bread. It doesn't say "On the 100,000,000th day God said "this is 1 day".

Also following that logic why should anything in the Bible be literal then? Was Jesus 33 years old when He went to Heaven or 33,000,000 years old? Which is it? Moses lifted his staff and the red sea parted, was it a symbolic red sea and they swam across? Taking one instance of symbolism to the extreme is wrong, because God knows we have a brain that He gave us, some people are just going backwards in their logic.

Just because I believe God was literal in what He said in creation does not mean that I think everything including symbolism is literal, but your example says all the info we need, He took bread, so we know it's bread, case closed. He doesn't say one thing about creation and mean millions of years, don't you see how silly that is? I mean seriously don't you?

 

[Jipsah]

Why do you hold to the idea that there is no morning or evening without a Sun?
Put a light on one side of a basketball.
The dark side is in night and the bright side in day... no sun required, just light.
I find no evidence of old Earth in any text book for any science.

Are you telling me that in the absence of the sun, that the evenings and mornings of Genesis were determined by use of a basketball? OK, whatever floats your boat, I guess. But was this a light-up basketball? If not, where'd the light come from? And how do you know?

 

[dwb001]

Are you telling me that in the absence of the sun, that the evenings and mornings of Genesis were determined by use of a basketball? OK, whatever floats your boat, I guess. But was this a light-up basketball? If not, where'd the light come from? And how do you know?

Now that is a troll response for sure.
Where did the light come from?... ask God.
How do I know?... because God said so.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Are you telling me that in the absence of the sun, that the evenings and mornings of Genesis were determined by use of a basketball? OK, whatever floats your boat, I guess. But was this a light-up basketball? If not, where'd the light come from? And how do you know?

Please tell me, where will light come from on the new Earth? If you can tell me that I can tell you where this light came from when God was creating everything.

Revelation 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Lol imagine someone today being like "hey man want to go to the store?" And them all "It's night though there's no sun, wherever will my car get the light to know where we're going??"

It's like people accept that humans can have flashlights but HoW eVEr Did GOD gEt LiGhT??

 

[The Barbarian]

Why do you hold to the idea that there is no morning or evening without a Sun?

Because by definition, mornings and evenings require a Sun.

The dark side is in night and the bright side in day... no sun required, just light.

Sorry, "big light in the sky" is not the definition of "morning." That excuse won't work.

 

[Jipsah]

So is it up to us humans to re-interpret the entire Bible to mean what we want it to mean

Nope, just try and make sense some of the time.

If there isn't a sun, how long is a "day"?

The fundy answer is "24 hours". The question then is, then why does so much stuff in the universe look so much older than that? That's where the arm-waving and name calling commences.

then just because "At the Last Supper Jesus took bread, broke it, gave it to His disciples and said "This is My body".

Nope, you missed the point entirely. Your lot generally says you MUST believe that the "days" of Genesis were 24 hours long, evidence to the contrary be blowed. BUT, your lot generally declares that we MUST NOT believe that our Lord is to be taken literally when He says, "take, eat, THIS IS MY BODY.

My lot believes you have it backward. The "days" of Genesis were of indeterminate length, because there was no sun to measure them by, The reference was to symbolic periods of time to show the sequence of Creation.

But we also KNOW that the words "take, eat this is My Body" came from the mouth of God Himself. No argument involved. The Pharisees and such said, "that doesn't make sense", and left Him. The Apostles didn't understand, but stayed with Him anyway.

Most still say "that makes no sense", and then act as though He didn't say it, or didn't really mean it. The rest of us still say, "Lord, we take You at Your Word, even if we don't entirely understand it." andtreat the bread and wine as His Body and Blood, WHICH IS WHAT HE SAID WHETHER YOUR DOCTRINE SAYS HE MEANT IT OR NOT.

Is believing how long a "day" was in Genesis of eternal importance? No. If you go it wrong, then we got it wrong. My bad. The point was, "in the beginning, GOD CREATED everythng. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE THERE.
.

But if we reject the Words of our Lord Christ Himself? Not so light a matter, is it? God Himself says it, and we say "No"? Better y'all than me, matey. If He says the bread is His Body, and the wine is His Blood, then it is, end discussion.

It says what it is there: bread. It doesn't say "On the 100,000,000th day God said "this is 1 day".

I don't know what you're driving at there at all.

Also following that logic why should anything in the Bible be literal then?

You tell me. Is the bread and wine our Lord's Body and Blood? If your answer is no then your question is nonsensical.

Just because I believe God was literal in what He said in creation does not mean that I think everything including symbolism is literal, but your example says all the info we need, He took bread, so we know it's bread, case closed.harisharisees,you say, "Oh, Jesus can't have really meant that

So I'm supposed to believe a symbolic teaching story that distills the Creation of the Universe into two pages of narrative,but dismiss the Word of God Himself. I say you're 180 degrees out of phase there, throwing away the food and gnawing on the box.

He doesn't say one thing about creation and mean millions of years, don't you see how silly that is? I mean seriously don't you?

But like the Pharisees, you say "Oh, but He can't have really mean that!

So tell me, if you can casually dismiss the words of God Himself like that, why do you accept anything in Scripture as literally true at all?

 

[dwb001]

Because by definition, mornings and evenings require a Sun.

By scientific experimentation it does mot.

Sorry, "big light in the sky" is not the definition of "morning." That excuse won't work.

No the rotation of the Earth from dark to light is the definition of morning.

 

[Jipsah]

Revelation 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

No evenings and mornings then, right?

 

[dwb001]

No evenings and mornings then, right?

On the New Earth... sure.

 

[Jipsah]

By scientific experimentation it does mot.

Really? Citation, please.

No the rotation of the Earth from dark to light is the definition of morning.

What dark and what light? No mention of any such in Genesis. Light existed, but you still need one to have actual evenings and mornings, don't you? You just made one up. Tsk tsk. But hey, you could have made up a rooster to crow at "morning", so that would have covered part of your "day", right?

 

[dwb001]

Really? Citation, please.

Remember that basketball.

What dark and what light? No mention of any such in Genesis. Light existed, but you still need one to have actual evenings and mornings, don't you? You just made one up. Tsk tsk. But hey, you could have made up a rooster to crow at "morning", so that would have covered part of your "day", right?

Made one what up?
Gen 1:4.

 

[Jipsah]

Remember that basketball.

Yeah, I thojght it ws a pretty dumb analogy That came from a scientific study? Yeah, I really want to see that citation.

Made one what up?

Basketball. yeah, that was weird.

Gen 1:4.

Gimme a hint, does it deal with the NBA at all?

 

[The Barbarian]

Because by definition, mornings and evenings require a Sun.

By scientific experimentation it does mot.

Nope. Morning is when the sun appears in the East. No point in trying to restructure the definitions.

No the rotation of the Earth from dark to light is the definition of morning.

Wrong. If that were so, moonrise would be morning. It's not your basketball "science" that fails you; it's the language. And that's how it is in Hebrew as well as in other languages.

 

[dwb001]

Because by definition, mornings and evenings require a Sun.


Nope. Morning is when the sun appears in the East. No point in trying to restructure the definitions.

Morning... dawn... first light.
Definitions don't need to be restructured.

Wrong. If that were so, moonrise would be morning. It's not your basketball "science" that fails you; it's the language. And that's how it is in Hebrew as well as in other languages.

That is your definition of Morning.
You are just arguing with yourself.

 

[Jipsah]

Morning... dawn... first light.
Definitions don't need to be restructured.

All you need to do is invent a light source not mentioned in Genesis. (I;'m sure it was just an oversight.)

That is your definition of Morning.

What's yours? The one that doesn't involve a sun.

You are just arguing with yourself.

No, you're there as well. You can tell his from yours because his make sense. <Laugh>

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

No evenings and mornings then, right?

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?