Oh boy - I wondered what this whole Mar A Lago thing was about

JosephZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2017
2,996
2,861
Davao City
Visit site
✟226,590.00
Country
Philippines
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
There were real documents there, Trump let the government go through whatever they wanted. Then they asked him if he would please put a lock on the room, he told them he would and did. Now this month they came back, broke the lock, and took the boxes. If they wanted more documents they should have asked instead of making a show of force.
And after the government went through Mar a Lago in June, Trump's attorney certified that all classified material was returned to the government and there was no more classified material at Mar a Lago. That turned out to be a lie as several boxes of classified material was removed from Mar a Lago this past week. The DOJ recently learned that classified material was still at Mar a Lago and there was also video surveillance of people going in and out of the storage room that Trump was told to put a lock on. This is why such drastic action was taken.

The warrant shows that documents classified/TS/SCI were removed from Mar a Lago. These types of documents are meant to be viewed in a secure government facility and are not to be removed from such a facility.

The documents found in Trump's possession were still marked classified which shows without doubt that Trump didn't declassify them prior to leaving office. If he had, the original classification designation would have been marked through and the word declassified would have been stamped on it along with the date it was declassified and the individual or agency who declassified it. There would also be a record of each of these declassified documents in a database.

This would be the case even if the President decided to unilaterally declassify the documents.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Belk

Senior Member
Supporter
Dec 21, 2005
28,243
12,997
Seattle
✟895,643.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
It's a fabrication, another hoax. Russia Russia Russia, Hunter Biden laptop disinformation, Insurrection, nuclear codes or plans kept by Trump by yet another anonymous source. Espionage? Sedition? The guy has never even had a speeding ticket, his family is clean, Hunter Biden has the longest self video documenting his own crimes in world history, Joe's been caught lying about Hunter's business, and the Justice Department won't prosecute.
Spare me the fallacy. Hunter and the president have nothing to do with Trump not being allowed to keep nuclear secrets.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,185
US
✟1,441,619.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Fake News. The article is false. A president can declassify material with verbal instructions. President Obama's Executive Order exempts the president and vice president from such procedures.

As I've mentioned before from my own direct experience, yes, presidents can declassify material with verbal instructions, but they must give those verbal instructions so that the materials can then be declassified according to regulations.

As someone else has already mentioned, there are multiple copies of most documents, and all of them must be physically declassified--that is, all the markings in every document and every related document must be changed paragraph by paragraph.

It doesn't happen by a president just saying, "Everything I take with me is unclassified" when he hasn't even told anyone what he took with him.

Moreover, and this is the crux in this particular issue: The president cannot declassify everything. He can only declassify what he (that is, the Executive Branch) originally classified. The president cannot declassify what the Congress has classified legislatively.

These nuclear documents were originally classified by Congressional legislation...the president has no power to declassify them.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,185
US
✟1,441,619.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Consider this....an FBI office in Cincinnati was recently attacked by a gunman.

If any of the multiple intelligence agencies, or law enforcement agencies, or regulatory agencies, or almost any of them came across information that another attack was being planned on other offices....tomorrow. Unfortunately, since the FBI is a different agency under a different department....and the FBI agents who need to know this info don't have clearance....

What exactly do you imagine happens in this situation?

Do you think it looks like the process above?
Do you think they're calling up Joe Biden and trying to explain to him what needs to happen?
Do you think Joe Biden gets up in the middle of the night and calls whomever and tells them to write a memo lol?
Then once that memo is reached by everyone....we all start this conversation about what should be declassified and when lol?
Then once we all give our opinions....Biden does whatever he wants regardless? We all just go along?

That's pretty close to the actual process. It doesn't have to go quite as high as the president, but it has to pretty high up the chain...CIA officer Smith can't just call up FBI Special Agent Jones and tell him that a terrorist attack is about to happen.
 
Upvote 0

Ponderous Curmudgeon

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2021
1,477
944
65
Newfield
✟38,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
There were real documents there, Trump let the government go through whatever they wanted. Then they asked him if he would please put a lock on the room, he told them he would and did. Now this month they came back, broke the lock, and took the boxes. If they wanted more documents they should have asked instead of making a show of force. Garland likely will be impeached because of this overreach. We just had an attack on Rushdie that the FBI should have prevented, the guy was a sympathizer of Muslim extremist groups, the FBI knew this but they are using their resources against Trump and those who support Trump.
And when none of this happens, what do you say then?
 
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
7,968
2,886
Minnesota
✟208,027.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
As I've mentioned before from my own direct experience, yes, presidents can declassify material with verbal instructions, but they must give those verbal instructions so that the materials can then be declassified according to regulations.

As someone else has already mentioned, there are multiple copies of most documents, and all of them must be physically declassified--that is, all the markings in every document and every related document must be changed paragraph by paragraph.

It doesn't happen by a president just saying, "Everything I take with me is unclassified" when he hasn't even told anyone what he took with him.

Moreover, and this is the crux in this particular issue: The president cannot declassify everything. He can only declassify what he (that is, the Executive Branch) originally classified. The president cannot declassify what the Congress has classified legislatively.

These nuclear documents were originally classified by Congressional legislation...the president has no power to declassify them.
The president is not subject to your rules. The president has the authority whether you like it or not. Again, the nuclear stuff is a hoax. The Hunter Biden laptop is real.
 
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
7,968
2,886
Minnesota
✟208,027.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The president is not subject to your rules. The president has the authority whether you like it or not. Just because you say he "must" do something does not make it required. Again, the nuclear stuff is a hoax. The Hunter Biden laptop is real.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,185
US
✟1,441,619.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The president is not subject to your rules. The president has the authority whether you like it or not. Again, the nuclear stuff is a hoax. The Hunter Biden laptop is real.

This is called putting your fingers in your ears and going "La-la-la-la."
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,390
11,318
✟433,509.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Really. So how long did you handle classified information?

(It was around 20 years for me.)

Cool....explain the 3rd party rule for interagency disclosure, what conditions need to be met, and why.

Plain terms will do fine. I don't want some copy and pasted rule you dug up. Just explain it as you understand it.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,390
11,318
✟433,509.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Yeah no, the ex president does not simply get to keep nuclear secrets because he feels like it. He is not a king who gets to change things at his whim.

Were the documents regarding nuclear secrets or something similar?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Yttrium

Independent Centrist
May 19, 2019
3,854
4,268
Pacific NW
✟242,497.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
Cool....explain the 3rd party rule for interagency disclosure, what conditions need to be met, and why.

Dude, that's the Privacy Act. That has nothing to do with declassifying classified information. Have you ever even seen a document with classified markings? If not, why are you trying to make some kind of argument here? And you're answering a question with a question, which is bad form.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,390
11,318
✟433,509.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
As I've mentioned before from my own direct experience, yes, presidents can declassify material with verbal instructions, but they must give those verbal instructions so that the materials can then be declassified according to regulations.

As someone else has already mentioned, there are multiple copies of most documents, and all of them must be physically declassified--that is, all the markings in every document and every related document must be changed paragraph by paragraph.

It doesn't happen by a president just saying, "Everything I take with me is unclassified" when he hasn't even told anyone what he took with him.

Moreover, and this is the crux in this particular issue: The president cannot declassify everything. He can only declassify what he (that is, the Executive Branch) originally classified.

Yeah....and the Executive Branch is most of the federal government.


The president cannot declassify what the Congress has classified legislatively.

I'm not entirely sure what that would be.

These nuclear documents were originally classified by Congressional legislation...the president has no power to declassify them.

So we know for certain that Trump took nuclear secrets?
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,390
11,318
✟433,509.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Dude, that's the Privacy Act.

I'll say it again in case you forgot....3rd party rule.

This is basic disclosure between agencies under certain circumstances.

If you were under the federal government for 20 years, dealing with classified information, you'd know it.

Just give me the basics of how it works, who you would seek permission from under what circumstances, etc.

I don't need the whole thing word for word. I don't know how long ago you retired/quit/changed jobs.
 
Upvote 0

Yttrium

Independent Centrist
May 19, 2019
3,854
4,268
Pacific NW
✟242,497.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
If you were under the federal government for 20 years, dealing with classified information, you'd know it.

The Privacy Act has nothing to do with classified information. You might as well be asking me to cite OSHA regulations, which also have nothing to do with the subject.

Tell you what, Ana, considering your long history of similar arguments, I'm just going to put you back on my ignore list.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JosephZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2017
2,996
2,861
Davao City
Visit site
✟226,590.00
Country
Philippines
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
The president has the authority whether you like it or not.
The President does have the authority to declassify material, not all material, those which relate to nuclear issues would be one example. That being said, a President CAN NOT simply declassify material with verbal instructions alone as you claimed in an earlier post. There is still a process the President must follow, and one of the requirements is that the documents are properly marked. A declassified document will have the original classification marked out with a single line. It will be stamped, and identify the person or agency authorizing the declassification and the date it was declassified.
declassified2.jpg


Below are a couple of examples of documents that Trump declassified during his presidency.
declassified.jpg

The two documents in this example were properly marked. The documents found at Mar a Lago were not labeled this way which means they remained classified regardless of what Trump, his attorneys, or right-wing media tells you.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,390
11,318
✟433,509.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
The Privacy Act has nothing to do with classified information.

"3rd party rule" doesn't refer to the Privacy Act. You're getting links to the Privacy Act because you have to Google "3rd Party Rule" because you have no idea what it refers to.

I told you I didn't want a perfect definition....I would have accepted it from memory.

You didn't work in the federal government for 20 years....at least not with classified information.

Tell you what, Ana, considering your long history of similar arguments, I'm just going to put you back on my ignore list.

I imagine that would be best for you.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BPPLEE
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,390
11,318
✟433,509.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
The President does have the authority to declassify material, not all material, those which relate to nuclear issues would be one example.

Well....some nuclear issues, sure. Others....I don't know.

For example, can he declassify a document that describes in detail the process of creating a nuclear weapon? No....I doubt it.

Can he declassify certain information about nuclear deployment and effectiveness? Eh....probably not.

Can he declassify a document from the State Department discussing nuclear deals with Iran or another foreign nation? Almost certainly.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

Vylo

Stick with the King!
Aug 3, 2003
24,732
7,790
43
New Jersey
✟203,465.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
The President does have the authority to declassify material, not all material, those which relate to nuclear issues would be one example. That being said, a President CAN NOT simply declassify material with verbal instructions alone as you claimed in an earlier post. There is still a process the President must follow, and one of the requirements is that the documents are properly marked. A declassified document will have the original classification marked out with a single line. It will be stamped, and identify the person or agency authorizing the declassification and the date it was declassified.
View attachment 319678

Below are a couple of examples of documents that Trump declassified during his presidency.
View attachment 319677
The two documents in this example were properly marked. The documents found at Mar a Lago were not labeled this way which means they remained classified regardless of what Trump, his attorneys, or right-wing media tells you.
You mean you can't just shout "declassified!"? Michael scott would be upset.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums