Why do some Christians dislike the NIV Bible?

Davy

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I have noticed in multiple Bible version discussions people who are not in the "KJV Only" group avoid the New International Version. Compared to other modern American English translations, what is wrong with it? I only know the NIV, it looks wrong when I read the same verses in other versions, but there must be something to like better in the ESV, RSV, NASB, NKJV, and CSB for people to read them instead.

Most just don't have a clue.

I was handed a NKJV when I was baptized. It's been sitting in a box collecting dust ever since, because of how different it reads than the KJV. I rely on the KJV Bible.
 
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tampasteve

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I have noticed in multiple Bible version discussions people who are not in the "KJV Only" group avoid the New International Version. Compared to other modern American English translations, what is wrong with it? I only know the NIV, it looks wrong when I read the same verses in other versions, but there must be something to like better in the ESV, RSV, NASB, NKJV, and CSB for people to read them instead.
There is nothing really "wrong" with it, overall; it teaches the same Gospel as the rest. For serious study there are better versions, but overall it is a fine translation. The English used is intentionally not as "high" level of reading, but that does not mean it is a bad version. If you like the style but want a higher level reading version I would recomend the ESV or CSB.

But in the end, the best version is the version that you will actually read.
 
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coffee4u

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There is nothing really "wrong" with it, overall; it teaches the same Gospel as the rest. For serious study there are better versions, but overall it is a fine translation. The English used is intentionally not as "high" level of reading, but that does not mean it is a bad version. If you like the style but want a higher level reading version I would recomend the ESV or CSB.

But in the end, the best version is the version that you will actually read.

There are certain verses which will give a person reading it the wrong impression, such as using the word 'rape' when it was actually consensual, or the word 'miscarriage' when it was actually premature birth, both came up recently.

So while I think it's still a good version it's worth realizing that English is not always an exact translation and that if a verse makes you stop and look twice or seems to contradict another it's worth going to look up some other versions. Even a new Christian can do that if they don't feel up to checking a lexicon.
 
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Gregorikos

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There are certain verses which will give a person reading it the wrong impression, such as using the word 'rape' when it was actually consensual, or the word 'miscarriage' when it was actually premature birth, both came up recently.

So while I think it's still a good version it's worth realizing that English is not always an exact translation and that if a verse makes you stop and look twice or seems to contradict another it's worth going to look up some other versions. Even a new Christian can do that if they don't feel up to checking a lexicon.

The words rape, rapes, and raped only come up 9 times in the NIV. All of those are legit rape. None of those refer to consensual sex.

The only miscarriage of a human is Numbers 5:22. The NET indicates that is legitimate:

Numbers 5:21 (NET 2nd Ed.)
Most commentators take the expressions to be euphemisms of miscarriage or stillbirth, meaning that there would be no fruit from an illegitimate union.

The NIV takes a lot of criticism, but rarely is it valid.
 
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tampasteve

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There are certain verses which will give a person reading it the wrong impression, such as using the word 'rape' when it was actually consensual, or the word 'miscarriage' when it was actually premature birth, both came up recently.

So while I think it's still a good version it's worth realizing that English is not always an exact translation and that if a verse makes you stop and look twice or seems to contradict another it's worth going to look up some other versions. Even a new Christian can do that if they don't feel up to checking a lexicon.
Fair enough, but the same can be levied against other translations too. The venerable KJV has massive issues in that regard as the language has changed over time. People reading it might think they know what it is saying, but really don't. Just a couple examples:

“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God,” (Philippians 4:6).
Here "careful" means anxious, but a common word use reading would not imply that.

“But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven,”
Suffer is meaning to let them come to Jesus and is translated in basically all other versions as "Let the little children come to Me," (NKJV, see also NIV, NASB, ESV, MEV, CSB)

“If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us,” which is better translated today as “If we endure, we will also reign with Him…” (NASB, see also ESV, NIV, NKJV, CSB, MEV). Suffer also meaning to endure.
 
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coffee4u

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Fair enough, but the same can be levied against other translations too. The venerable KJV has massive issues in that regard as the language has changed over time. People reading it might think they know what it is saying, but really don't. Just a couple examples:

“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God,” (Philippians 4:6).
Here "careful" means anxious, but a common word use reading would not imply that.

“But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven,”
Suffer is meaning to let them come to Jesus and is translated in basically all other versions as "Let the little children come to Me," (NKJV, see also NIV, NASB, ESV, MEV, CSB)

“If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us,” which is better translated today as “If we endure, we will also reign with Him…” (NASB, see also ESV, NIV, NKJV, CSB, MEV). Suffer also meaning to endure.

I never said it didn't. Which is why I always say its good to have a few. I like to have a KJ, a NKJ and the NIV and then check a lexicon if needed.
 
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tampasteve

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I never said it didn't. Which is why I always say its good to have a few. I like to have a KJ, a NKJ and the NIV and then check a lexicon if needed.
I totally agree. For study I always use NKJ, KJ, ESV, and Artscroll (Old Testament).
 
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The Liturgist

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Unnecessary changes to certain gendered pronouns, chiefly. That's what the TNIV was about. After promoting the NIV for years, they flipped and claimed it was damaging which is insane. It's not the text of the 2011 edit that offends me as much as the decision to change it. It would be one thing if it had been correcting genuine errors or if the English language had changed to the point where the translation was beginning to lead people astray (the KJV is mostly good, but it has done this at times), but neither had really been discovered between 1984 and the early 2000s.

Indeed, this is my view. I actually really like the second edition 1984 NIV; I find it to be stylistically elegant, as elegant as any contemporary language translation (and I really wish they had translated the deuterocanon). However the third edition, with its politically correct gender neutrality, is a huge problem for me.

However, I did enjoy David Suchet reading The Gospels of St. Mark and more recently St. John from the readers’ lectern below the pulpit at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, and I suspect his recordings of the other chapters are good, but seeing him read it was brilliant; it felt like fresh reportage, but we have to remember David Suchet is an accomplished actor (most famous for his comprehensive portrayal of Hercules Poirot on ITV, which was initially somewhere between Peter Ustinov and Albert Finney in terms of style, with production values that were less than spectacular, but as time went by, he found a very distinctive voice, especially following his conversion to Christianity - he became a devout Anglican, and in turn developed Poirot into a devout Roman Catholic, and injected strong religious themes into the stories, as well as more complex moral dramas than what Agatha Christie originally wrote. I suspect he could just as easily have pulled it off with another contemporary language translation.

a good example would be Cards on the Table, with Alexander Siddig playing the diabolical Professor Shaitana, who, spoiler alert, arranged to be murdered for his own amusement and so that the various moral transgressions of the characters would be discovered. His name is a homonym for the Syriac Aramaic word for Satan, and also a homonym for “devils” in Arabic, and the script establishes him as a Syrian (Agatha Christie loved Syria and its people, and I love Syrian Christians myself). The religious aspect of Poirot, as added by David Suchet, greatly enriched that episode. It also became central to Murder on the Orient Express and Curtain.
 
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The Liturgist

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I totally agree. For study I always use NKJ, KJ, ESV, and Artscroll (Old Testament).

Artscroll is known for their Siddurim, which as someone interested in Jewish liturgical material I have some interest in, although I believe their material is oriented towards Ashkenazi Orthodox use, and I already have an English translation of such a Siddur, as well as a Karaite Siddur and the Defter, which is the Samaritan equivalent of a Siddur. What I really want to see is a Yemeni and a Romaniote (Greek Jewish) Siddur, and a Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jewish) service book, as well as a Sephardic Siddur if there are any material differences between it and the Ashkenazi version I have a translation of.

Analysis of the one year Jewish lectionary by one of the other members of my liturgy club has interestingly shown a correlation between Jewish Torah and Haftarah lessons and the two Old Testament lessons read before the Epistle and the Gospel in the lectionary of the Assyrian Church of the East.
 
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linux.poet

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I don’t like thought-for-thought translations of the Scripture, and the NIV sounds dumb to me. It’s as popular and cheap as Not of This World T-shirts.

I much prefer the NRSV and NASB for respecting the fact that I have a brain, and that I’m smart enough to be reading a book that was once written in Ancient Greek.
 
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NIV is a Jesuit Bible and heretical NIV and the Jesuit Priest

The article you linked to is either a hilarious satire of anti-Catholic conspiracy theories or else is completely bonkers.

Assuming the latter is the case, which is to say, the author of the article is stark raving mad, which I am not sure is a safe assumption, but assuming for a moment that he does actually believe that, you should rest assured that he is completely in error, because the NIV is one of the least Catholic bibles out there.

I mean, aside from the fact that the Roman Catholic Church endorses several competitors, such as the NRSV-CE, the ESV-CE, the NAB, the RNJB and the venerable Challoner Douai-Rheims, as well as the lesser known but much loved Knox Bible and the somewhat overrated original Jerusalem Bible, all of which feature the Deuterocanonical Books, which are very important from a Roman Catholic perspective, and which the NIV lacks (but the King James Version has, because the KJV was translated for use in the Church of England, and the Church of England and other Anglican Protestants also read those same Deuterocanonical Books that the Roman Catholic Church reads, like the books of the Maccabees, Tobit, Baruch, Sirach, Wisdom, Judith, and others), there is also the issue of the NIV following an intentionally politically correct agenda which in the case of the third edition has become even more pronounced, with the intentional avoidance of masculine terminology wherever possible.

All of this is extremely problematic to the Roman Catholic Church, which obviously includes the Jesuits. And for every instance that article cites of the NIV favoring Roman Catholic doctrine, I can point to instances where it does not. Most notably, there is shocking bias in the New Testament, where every time the Greek text employs the word Paradosis, which literally means “traditions”, the NIV renders it as “teachings” if the connotation is positive, for example, in 1 Corinthians 11:2 , 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonians 3:6 , whereas in every place where there is a negative connotation, Paradosis is translated correctly as “traditions”, for example, in Matthew 15:1-9 , Mark 7:13 Galatians 1:14 and Colossians 2:8. A better translation would render all of these instances of the word “paradosis” as “traditions,” for “teachings” is more accurately rendered as “kerygma.”

However, the reality is that the NIV started out as a low church Reformed Protestant Bible published by people opposed to the concept of Tradition as an important aspect of Church Life, something valued not just by Catholics but also by high church liturgical Protestants including Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists and Moravians, most of whom also believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, like Roman Catholics, even though they do not agree with the specific neo-Aristotelian Scholastic concept of transubstantiation.

The article also ignores the Eastern dimension. The world’s second largest denomination is the Eastern Orthodox Communion, consisting of Ukrainian, Russian, Greek, Bulgarian, Romanian, Serbian, Albanian, Georgian, Antiochian, Cypriot, Alexandrian, Finnish, Estonian, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Latvian, Lithuanian, Aleutian, Chinese and Japanese Orthodox Christians and many American, English, Australian, Canadian, African, Korean, and European converts. it believes most of what Roman Catholics believe, differing mainly in the rejection of purgatory and papal supremacy. The Oriental Orthodox are the world’s sixth largest denomination consisting of the Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian, Indian, and Syriac Orthodox Churches and in terms of faith and liturgical practice are almost the same as the Eastern Orthodox. And the same is true of the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Ancient Church of the East, which consist of around 1.5 million Christians, mostly from Iraq and Iran or else living in the diaspora in the US, Europe and Australia, who have endured extreme persecution from Muslims.

These Christians cannot use the NIV, because the Syriac Orthodox and Assyrians use an ancient translation of the Bible into Aramaic, the same language spoken by our Lord, known as the Peahitta, the Ethiopians use an ancient translation which preserves several Old Testament books such as Jubilees which exist only in fragments elsewhere, some of which were only recently found among the Dead Sea Scrolls in Israel, and the rest either use the Septuagint Old Testament, which features different versification, a different structure to the Psalter (the book of Psalms), more explicit Christological references, and the Deuterocanonical Books, plus longer and more spiritual versions of certain other books such as Esther.

The third and fourth largest denominations are the Anglicans and Lutherans, respectively, both of which are not ideal users of the NIV. Only the fifth largest family of denominations, the Presbyterian churches, represented an ideal audience for the NIV, and then, that use is limited to the more liberal Presbyterian and Reformed denominations, such as the PCUSA, the Church of Scotland and the United Reformed Church, as well as other liberal mainline denominations that are not keen on tradition, such as the American Baptist Convention, the United Church of Christ, the Uniting Church in Australia, the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ, and fellow travelers.
 
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Freth

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I grew up with KJV and memorized it as a child, so it's still my translation of choice. The language is much more impactful, which isn't coincidence in my opinion. The only other translation I'll use is Amplified, but I do have parallel bibles for reference. Sometimes I'll quote AMP, ESV or some other translation alongside KJV in my posts, so it's easier to understand, or to point out translation similarities, but KJV is and always will be my translation of choice.

I am also Generation X, but I do not subscribe to the KJV translation having any sort of gender issues. The word of God shouldn't change with the times, no matter what the world is doing.
 
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Andrewn

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I don’t like thought-for-thought translations of the Scripture, and the NIV sounds dumb to me. It’s as popular and cheap as Not of This World T-shirts. I much prefer the NRSV and NASB for respecting the fact that I have a brain, and that I’m smart enough to be reading a book that was once written in Ancient Greek.
Back in 1970's, the RSV was rejected by conservatives perhaps because of the translation of one word "alma" in Isaiah. The conservatives introduced the NASB and NIV that were far worse than the RSV and, in my opinion, resulted in deterioration of conservative theology and teaching.

Meanwhile, the NRSV was introduced rendering the "Spirit of God" into "a wind from God" in Gen 1:2 and using inclusive language that made the Psalms, for example, unreadable. The NRSVue seems to continue on the same politically correct trajectory.

In the beginning of the 21st century, conservatives changed 7.67% of the words in the RSV and introduced the ESV. It is good but it came out 20 or 30 years too late. The appetite among conservatives has shifted to watered down Bibles and they now seem to fall in love with the NLT, which is even worse.

the Roman Catholic Church endorses several competitors, such as the NRSV-CE, the ESV-CE, the NAB, the RNJB and the venerable Challoner Douai-Rheims, as well as the lesser known but much loved Knox Bible and the somewhat overrated original Jerusalem Bible,
I still read the OT in the original JB :). It is too bad that Catholic Bibles do not get discussed in threads like this. BTW, in Gen 1:2, the NAB has "a mighty wind" and the NJB has "a divine wind"!!! I understand the reason, but there should be appropriate weight to theology and tradition.
 
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Gregorikos

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Meanwhile, the NRSV was introduced rendering the "Spirit of God" into "a wind from God" in Gen 1:2 and using inclusive language that made the Psalms, for example, unreadable. The NRSVue seems to continue on the same politically correct trajectory.

"Wind from God" is a legit translation of Genesis 1:2, as suggested by many scholars through the centuries. There is nothing politically correct about it. Though I prefer "Spirit of God" - the NRSV isn't out of bounds here. As you noted, the NAB and NJB does similarly.

To me, the Psalms in the NRSV are excellent, aside from Psalm 8:1&9. The Psalter is very important to me. I read it 3 times per day, and am pretty picky about the Psalms. I can't stand the CSB translation of the Psalms. That one is unreadable. The Psalms in the NKJV don't flow so well either. The NIV Psalms are better, but not as good as the RSV or NRSV. To each his own, certainly, but I have a pretty high opinion of the NRSV Psalms. I was surprised by your comment.
 
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"Wind from God" is a legit translation of Genesis 1:2, as suggested by many scholars through the centuries. There is nothing politically correct about it. Though I prefer "Spirit of God" - the NRSV isn't out of bounds here. As you noted, the NAB and NJB does similarly.

To me, the Psalms in the NRSV are excellent, aside from Psalm 8:1&9. The Psalter is very important to me. I read it 3 times per day, and am pretty picky about the Psalms. I can't stand the CSB translation of the Psalms. That one is unreadable. The Psalms in the NKJV don't flow so well either. The NIV Psalms are better, but not as good as the RSV or NRSV. To each his own, certainly, but I have a pretty high opinion of the NRSV Psalms. I was surprised by your comment.

Essentially though one can render the English theological term Holy Spirit as “Wind of God”, or even “Wind from God.” Holy Spirit is an Anglo-Latin term that refers to what could otherwise be called the Holy Breath, or the Breath of God, but the Holy Spirit is of course a person. Ultimately, how Genesis 1:2 is translated is important mainly because the choice of words to use in rendering it into English can adversely impact the ease with which readers can connect it to the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Back in 1970's, the RSV was rejected by conservatives perhaps because of the translation of one word "alma" in Isaiah. The conservatives introduced the NASB and NIV that were far worse than the RSV and, in my opinion, resulted in deterioration of conservative theology and teaching.

Meanwhile, the NRSV was introduced rendering the "Spirit of God" into "a wind from God" in Gen 1:2 and using inclusive language that made the Psalms, for example, unreadable. The NRSVue seems to continue on the same politically correct trajectory.

In the beginning of the 21st century, conservatives changed 7.67% of the words in the RSV and introduced the ESV. It is good but it came out 20 or 30 years too late. The appetite among conservatives has shifted to watered down Bibles and they now seem to fall in love with the NLT, which is even worse.
I tried the NIV for several years. I became suspicious of it when it seemed to prefer readings that affirmed evangelical theology dealing with tradition. I moved on to the RSVCE.

The ESV is growing in popularity among Catholic Bible readers. I think that is a very good thing. It is in a Catholic edition that has all the books and has made some small changes to the text.

Differences between the ESV-CE and the ESV

I still do also use the RSVCE, an adaptation of the RSV again with all the books and with small changes to the text. It's fair. Not perfect but until the ESVCE it was IMHO the best option going. Now I think the ESVCE is the best thing going.
I still read the OT in the original JB :). It is too bad that Catholic Bibles do not get discussed in threads like this. BTW, in Gen 1:2, the NAB has "a mighty wind" and the NJB has "a divine wind"!!! I understand the reason, but there should be appropriate weight to theology and tradition.
Way back I read the JB and I liked it. Read the NAB too for years.

The Best Catholic Bible | Leroy Huizenga

Here is a discussion about Bibles for Catholics, with a clear preference for the ESVCE. And I agree, but hope for an even better common and traditional Bible some day. If I had a few billion dollars and had already solved world hunger I would love to fund such a Bible. But I bet there would be naysayers galore and it would never have a chance for becoming a truly common Bible. So maybe for now the ESV can be it.
 
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The Liturgist

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I tried the NIV for several years. I became suspicious of it when it seemed to prefer readings that affirmed evangelical theology dealing with tradition. I moved on to the RSVCE.

The ESV is growing in popularity among Catholic Bible readers. I think that is a very good thing. It is in a Catholic edition that has all the books and has made some small changes to the text.

Differences between the ESV-CE and the ESV

I still do also use the RSVCE, an adaptation of the RSV again with all the books and with small changes to the text. It's fair. Not perfect but until the ESVCE it was IMHO the best option going. Now I think the ESVCE is the best thing going.

Way back I read the JB and I liked it. Read the NAB too for years.

The Best Catholic Bible | Leroy Huizenga

Here is a discussion about Bibles for Catholics, with a clear preference for the ESVCE. And I agree, but hope for an even better common and traditional Bible some day. If I had a few billion dollars and had already solved world hunger I would love to fund such a Bible. But I bet there would be naysayers galore and it would never have a chance for becoming a truly common Bible. So maybe for now the ESV can be it.

Have you seen the Knox Bible? I think its my favorite RC edition after the Challoner Doaui-Rheims.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Have you seen the Knox Bible? I think its my favorite RC edition after the Challoner Doaui-Rheims.
I really like the Knox Bible. It should be much better known.

And I picked up a pocket NT recently. It is the CCD revision of Challoner's 1750 revision of the Doua--Rheims. This is a foundation for the later NAB. And it's the version that US Catholic soldiers would have been given in WWII. It maintains meaning from Challoner.
 
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I have noticed in multiple Bible version discussions people who are not in the "KJV Only" group avoid the New International Version. Compared to other modern American English translations, what is wrong with it? I only know the NIV, it looks wrong when I read the same verses in other versions, but there must be something to like better in the ESV, RSV, NASB, NKJV, and CSB for people to read them instead.
I like the NIV. My first translation along with the KJV. I now use the ESV.
 
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