Do nice/good guys finish last?

[Saucy]

I've learned my lesson about allowing my pain to hurt others. I've done so much in the past that I regret and have repented from. I wish I could ask for forgiveness.

 

[bèlla]

I've learned my lesson about allowing my pain to hurt others. I've done so much in the past that I regret and have repented from. I wish I could ask for forgiveness.

You learned from your mistakes and that’s important. Breaking the cycle takes time and introspection and I’m glad you did.

I knew a lot of people like that in the past. Many I helped and mentioned before. One used to participate on the site but I think you were gone then. She used to do the same and expect silence or turning the other cheek.

But one day I didn’t. I’d had enough of the outbursts and reached my breaking point. I told her I wouldn’t allow them again or have a friendship where that was the norm.

She did it again and I walked away. I tabled a 14-year connection with no regrets. It hurt of course but I meant what I said. We reconciled three years later and she did it again and I walked away once more.

More years passed and the Lord brought us together one more time. By then she understood. I won’t be mistreated. If we can’t be good to and good for one another we need to leave each other alone.

I insist on healthy connections. Life is difficult enough without unnecessary drama. Sometimes you need time to work through things. You can’t use people as a punching bag. They get fed up at some point.

 

[linux.poet]

She used to do the same and expect silence or turning the other cheek.

But one day I didn’t. I’d had enough of the outbursts and reached my breaking point. I told her I wouldn’t allow them again or have a friendship where that was the norm.

That person probably had change codependency and closed the circuit with actual outbursts of rage. In any event, I’m sorry you had to go through that.

Props to you for standing up to her and removing her from your life.

 

[Saucy]

Yeah, I definitely had a lot of growing up to do. I was abused mentally, physically, and sexually as a kid, neglected as both of my parents were living that drug life, and never had any kind of stability. Throw on ADHD and you can imagine the kind of pain I was in. Not long after I joined CF, my dad died in a work accident so I was out of control. Super emotional and crazy. But those moments (and a few friends) helped me realize I needed to work all that pain out. I recommitted myself to the Lord and He healed me. I want to spend the rest of my life serving Him.

I wasn't going to come back to CF because I didn't think anyone would forgive me or have anything nice to say about me, but for the most part, it has been a positive experience.

 

[bèlla]

That person probably had change codependency and closed the circuit with actual outbursts of rage. In any event, I’m sorry you had to go through that.

Props to you for standing up to her and removing her from your life.

Thank you. It was a different season in my life. I was home full-time and able to provide the support and guidance they needed. She wasn’t the only one. I knew the problem. I helped her heal and rebuilt her. She’s in a better place now.

But boundaries were needed for her benefit and mine. She had to count the cost of her words and actions. There’s always a price. If you don’t want to pay it you have to choose differently.

 

[bèlla]

I wasn't going to come back to CF because I didn't think anyone would forgive me or have anything nice to say about me, but for the most part, it has been a positive experience.

Wow you’ve been through a lot. What a wonderful testimony. I don’t think you were here when I came but I remember the name cropping up now and then.

You can’t change the past but you can make tomorrow better. When you’re hurt sometimes you don’t see a way forward or who you might become.

I wasn’t walking with the Lord when I helped them. I saw their pain and potential. I could see the beauty beyond the shards. And they believed me.

That’s all it takes. I’m glad you had the same. It’s priceless.

 

[linux.poet]

She had to count the cost of her words and actions. There’s always a price. If you don’t want to pay it you have to choose differently.

I know, heh. I see that you didn’t know me very well and might have been apprehensive as a result of this previous experience. I wish I could pull you inside my head and show you how determined I have become not to be that sort of person. But the intuition sees the shadows.

Needless to say, after enduring a childhood filled with my dad throwing an angry fit over my every misdeed and misfortune, I haven’t exactly been eager to run right out and inflict that pain on others. If I come off to you that way, hit me with your schoolmarm ruler. (I do also respond to Matthew 18 confrontations of various kinds, but I understand that most of you probably don’t have time for that. But the door is always open.)

My dad paid a heavy price for his out-of-control rage, and it is not a price that I am willing to pay. But it is the Holy Spirit’s power that softens hearts and allows for the gentle answer that turns away wrath. I know who I was when I started - the little girl who, when her dad yelled at her, she would yell right back. It took me years to realize that silence was stronger than the return yell of pain and even longer to find the steady voice of gentleness and truth that would stand in the midst of the storm.

I wasn't going to come back to CF because I didn't think anyone would forgive me or have anything nice to say about me, but for the most part, it has been a positive experience.

I wasn’t around back then, but you are always welcome to ask for forgiveness in the future from me, should you ever need it. I quickly give it out to those who ask. I do not wish for my forum companions to live lives of fear.

During COVID, I was meeting for a Bible study and I interpreted a piece of Scripture incorrectly, and an older woman called me on it. I was grateful for the correction, and we had an interaction where we sorted out that I was wrong. I thought nothing more of it.

The next morning, I got a phone call where the woman in question apologized to me for being harsh. I forgave her immediately, but I was perplexed because I didn’t understand how she thought she was harsh to me. I did think she was concerned, but was not her concern valid?! I had made a serious mistake!

Over time, I noticed that I tended to overlook interactions that other people would consider harsh. After all, if harsh is being yelled at and being punched in the face, what is a misplaced word in an online forum conversation? If I had misplaced the word, yes it was a grave error if it had caused offense. But for the others I tended to write off.

So always feel free to come back and apologize if you need, and that goes for everyone. One of my good friends has called me a tortoise - thick shell, leather skin, and very slow to confront. It takes a lot of buildup before I act. So unless you stuck a needle in one of my weaknesses (Did you try to seduce me lol? Go away) I probably didn’t even notice and, regardless, will be happy to forgive you for whatever it was.

 

[bèlla]

I know, heh. I see that you didn’t know me very well and might have been apprehensive as a result of this previous experience.

It isn’t possible to know you through this medium. You need time and intimacy beyond the Internet. We’re seeing a sliver of the whole with everyone.

My previous experience had no bearing. She agreed to walk with me and invested years in her betterment. It was a labor of love. She received more and my expectations were in relation to her capacity. I required her to stand and thrive and cease to live from the hurt she endured.

I wish I could pull you inside my head and show you how determined I have become not to be that sort of person. But the intuition sees the shadows.

I take everything I see at face value. I don’t analyze or make assessments. It’s impossible to do without greater insight. Entering someone’s crawlspace shouldn’t be undertaken lightly. You need parameters in place to address the things you upset and a willingness to see it through.

If you say you’re determined I trust that’s the case. If you say you feel like giving up I may asked what changed in light of your previous statement. But the dialogue always begins with a disclosure.

If I come off to you that way, hit me with your schoolmarm ruler. (I do also respond to Matthew 18 confrontations of various kinds, but I understand that most of you probably don’t have time for that. But the door is always open.)

I wouldn’t do it for several reasons. Everyone is at different points on their journey and the healing cycle if applicable. I don’t get in people’s business to that degree without an agreement in place.

There may be other things involved that contribute to one’s behavior which manifests through a dialogue or topic. You can read too much into a situation and see things that aren’t there.

For the most part, I find probes invasive and respect a person’s right to open or remain closed if desired. Although I do this with another to some degree he agreed to the process.

It took me years to realize that silence was stronger than the return yell of pain and even longer to find the steady voice of gentleness and truth that would stand in the midst of the storm.

Engagement serves no purpose and perpetuates the cycle. At some point we must be willing to end it. Silence is a useful tool to communicate our unwillingness to continue.

 

[Saucy]

I know, heh. I see that you didn’t know me very well and might have been apprehensive as a result of this previous experience. I wish I could pull you inside my head and show you how determined I have become not to be that sort of person. But the intuition sees the shadows.

Needless to say, after enduring a childhood filled with my dad throwing an angry fit over my every misdeed and misfortune, I haven’t exactly been eager to run right out and inflict that pain on others. If I come off to you that way, hit me with your schoolmarm ruler. (I do also respond to Matthew 18 confrontations of various kinds, but I understand that most of you probably don’t have time for that. But the door is always open.)

My dad paid a heavy price for his out-of-control rage, and it is not a price that I am willing to pay. But it is the Holy Spirit’s power that softens hearts and allows for the gentle answer that turns away wrath. I know who I was when I started - the little girl who, when her dad yelled at her, she would yell right back. It took me years to realize that silence was stronger than the return yell of pain and even longer to find the steady voice of gentleness and truth that would stand in the midst of the storm.


I wasn’t around back then, but you are always welcome to ask for forgiveness in the future from me, should you ever need it. I quickly give it out to those who ask. I do not wish for my forum companions to live lives of fear.

During COVID, I was meeting for a Bible study and I interpreted a piece of Scripture incorrectly, and an older woman called me on it. I was grateful for the correction, and we had an interaction where we sorted out that I was wrong. I thought nothing more of it.

The next morning, I got a phone call where the woman in question apologized to me for being harsh. I forgave her immediately, but I was perplexed because I didn’t understand how she thought she was harsh to me. I did think she was concerned, but was not her concern valid?! I had made a serious mistake!

Over time, I noticed that I tended to overlook interactions that other people would consider harsh. After all, if harsh is being yelled at and being punched in the face, what is a misplaced word in an online forum conversation? If I had misplaced the word, yes it was a grave error if it had caused offense. But for the others I tended to write off.

So always feel free to come back and apologize if you need, and that goes for everyone. One of my good friends has called me a tortoise - thick shell, leather skin, and very slow to confront. It takes a lot of buildup before I act. So unless you stuck a needle in one of my weaknesses (Did you try to seduce me lol? Go away) I probably didn’t even notice and, regardless, will be happy to forgive you for whatever it was.

I'm so sorry you went through that. The same goes for you. I never hold grudges and I always forgive.

I can't understand teachers who have no patience to actually teach.

 

[linux.poet]

I can't understand teachers who have no patience to actually teach.

I’ll vouch enough to say that the person in question was just having an off day. She is a good teacher of me and the other women and understands my heart for ministry. I would consider it a privilege to sit under her teaching or work with her again.

 

[linux.poet]

It isn’t possible to know you through this medium. You need time and intimacy beyond the Internet. We’re seeing a sliver of the whole with everyone.

I usually find this statement on the lips of those who aren’t truly interested in seeing the human beings behind the computers who are affected by their words and actions in this medium. I also find it on the lips of those who enjoy talking about money.

This never surprises me, because all real-life interactions that aren’t guided by a firm and specific purpose inevitably fall into people asking me if I’m in college or what my major is or whether I have a job. It makes me wonder if the people I’m talking to are trying to hire me, sell me something, or see how much money they can take me for lol. It happening at church is particularly annoying - shouldn’t we be talking about God there, not a rehearsal of my economic prospects over and over? Is this the time and intimacy I supposedly need? Heh. I find all of those interactions to be incredibly unsatisfying, as are the conversations about children in ladies’ Bible studies (to which I am excluded by the virtue of not having procreated). Are we merely bodies? Are we not souls?

That is not to say that I haven’t pushed past or gone around these obnoxious barriers to build meaningful connections in real life. That area comes first. But oddly enough, most of my life changing connections that have helped me learn the most are online. It takes time and investment in any medium to build meaningful relationships, and I think most people really don’t want to bother in either case. They just want to know what your job is so they know how much you relate to their misery that they are stuck in. Those people are only going to drag me down - I ditched that life long ago.

Hopefully as I move forward in life and my economic prospects ironically improve, I will move past the sea of toxic folk who see me as a commodity, a hiring prospect, or a misery repository and find more folk in real life who relate to me as a person.

 

[bèlla]

I usually find this statement on the lips of those who aren’t truly interested in seeing the human beings behind the computers who are affected by their words and actions in this medium. I also find it on the lips of those who enjoy talking about money.

I’ve been on here a long time. Back when access was only available through college, dial-up, and service like AOL. WebTV didn’t exist yet. No matter how you slice it you’re talking to strangers. You can only know them to degree they permit assuming what they say is true.

Some people are married and don’t admit it. Live with someone and claim they’re single. Older or younger than they say. Don’t look like the picture they say is them. Or aren’t the gender they play online. That’s the nature of the beast. And it happens all the time.

I’ve caught more people in lies, uncovered hidden lives, and watched more takedowns and outings than I care to recall. I met my best friend in a chat room 20 years ago. And we’re still going strong. But we’re not typing anymore.

I have tenure with the people I encountered in this medium. Sixteen years or more and we’ve grown beyond this. I’m not looking for friends. I already have them and I know them intimately. We do life together. This has a purpose but that isn’t how I use it.

Others may have a different approach and see it as a tool for different things and that’s fine. If that’s the case they should pursue it. But there’s going to be others who feel differently. And that’s okay too.

This never surprises me, because all real-life interactions that aren’t guided by a firm and specific purpose inevitably fall into people asking me if I’m in college or what my major is or whether I have a job.

I don’t ask those kind of questions. It’s none of my business. If you want me to know you’ll tell me. I’m a stickler for place. I can’t be anything to anyone they don’t desire. They determine my role in their life and it will never go further than they choose. And the reverse holds true.

I find all of those interactions to be incredibly unsatisfying, as are the conversations about children in ladies’ Bible studies (to which I am excluded by the virtue of not having procreated). Are we merely bodies? Are we not souls?

That doesn’t bother me. Most people discuss the things they value or find meaningful. Given our diversity it covers a lot. People bond over different things. Some want to share burdens, interests, activities and so on. If you want to get to know them meet them where they are. Common denominators are a good starting point.

It takes time and investment in any medium to build meaningful relationships, and I think most people really don’t want to bother in either case.

People invest when they want to. They’ll make the effort if they have a reason. It has to be mutually desirable. Otherwise its unbalanced and you’re seeking something they’ll never provide.

Hopefully as I move forward in life and my economic prospects ironically improve, I will move past the sea of toxic folk who see me as a commodity, a hiring prospect, or a misery repository and find more folk in real life who relate to me as a person.

Money isn’t an impediment for connection. That’s rarely the reason bonds aren’t formed. It’s usually an aspect of their character or temperament. Different things make different people tick.

 

[Sketcher]

And the layoffs are coming. If you follow the market or invest in digital currency you know what's on the horizon. The climate change agenda is rolling out. Hardships will have a significant effect on dating as we've known it. Good and bad.

The majority will be in the same boat. Those who struggled to find a companion may see their options increase. Many of the barriers for connection will fall away.

I mentioned layoffs in my previous response and shared an article that shines light on what’s ahead. I’ll post it here for others.

20 Jobs That Will Be Replaced By Robots

1. Writers
2. Sex workers
3. Models
4. Referees
5. Chefs
6. Baristas
7. Cashiers and tellers
8. Soldiers
9. Security guards
10. Postal service
11. Telemarketers
12. Lab technicians
13. Babysitters
14. Teachers
15. Janitors
16. Astronauts
17. Surgeons
18. Pharmacists and nurses
19. Pilots
20. Drivers

If layoffs are coming, then why would those of us who struggled to find a companion have more options? Yes, women will probably opt for partnering with a provider, but if I'm understanding you right, and if if you're right, there will be fewer providers for them to partner with.

 

[bèlla]

If layoffs are coming, then why would those of us who struggled to find a companion have more options? Yes, women will probably opt for partnering with a provider, but if I'm understanding you right, and if if you're right, there will be fewer providers for them to partner with.

The minor stuff will be the no more. The things that made them say no won't be as bothersome. Adversity will humble them. You'll be more than a face, paycheck, etc. The real things that make you a man are the things she'll need. They don't know that yet. They haven't been taught. They think they can live without you. Because they don't understand how you meet the rest. They're putting you in a box.

Your strength, kindness, support, problem-solving, and so on are huge assets. But they don't get attention yet. They will.

 

[linux.poet]

Speaking from personal experience, I can say that suffering and adversity doesn't necessarily make for a healthy attitude toward romance and marriage. A marriage that is built on using another person as a balm for your emotional pain or your empty bank account is no marriage at all, because neither party truly wanted to be in the union. What happens when the adversity ends? The Holy Spirit always heals from the inside. It will happen. The healing path will draw the parties away from each other, creating tension that can lead to divorce.

Yes, there will be more searchers, but they will be desperate sellouts who don't know who they are and what they are doing.

Healthy marriage partners are people who want to serve another human being of the opposite sex and make sacrifices to that end, usually with children as the goal - raising them in a healthy manner. These people don't have baggage or other interests contrary to that end. Marriage is no relief for adversity - in fact, Paul says that it increases adversity in this life. It must be approached from a strong position, not a position of desperation and weakness. One must be strong enough internally to meet the needs of another human being (and other human beings, in the case of children) in addition to your own.

 

[bèlla]

People enter relationships in different states. In a perfect world hurts and wrongs are set aside. All is healed and whole but that rarely happens. We carry ideals about life and what should and shouldn’t occur and discover the difference between should’s and reality when we’re in the thick of it. Things don’t always unfold as we’d hope.

Readiness has its place but a lot of lessons unfold in process. When you have to apply your beliefs and thoughts. Right now they’re in a vacuum. We believe we’ll do this and that. But wait until you’re tested. That’s when the truth comes out.

I did a lot en route to this point to be marriageable from my perspective. It was a lot of work, change and denial. I was willing to forgo what I could have in order to have what I wanted. But that’s not for everyone. Some people are ready in their twenties or younger or older than that. It depends.

There’s things that can’t be worked in or out of us without the other. We learn through experience where we miss the mark and fall short. It’s the end of a thing that matters most. Everyone doesn’t begin on the right footing. But they can find it if they’re willing and united.

 

[Saucy]

Speaking from personal experience, I can say that suffering and adversity doesn't necessarily make for a healthy attitude toward romance and marriage. A marriage that is built on using another person as a balm for your emotional pain or your empty bank account is no marriage at all, because neither party truly wanted to be in the union. What happens when the adversity ends? The Holy Spirit always heals from the inside. It will happen. The healing path will draw the parties away from each other, creating tension that can lead to divorce.

Yes, there will be more searchers, but they will be desperate sellouts who don't know who they are and what they are doing.

Healthy marriage partners are people who want to serve another human being of the opposite sex and make sacrifices to that end, usually with children as the goal - raising them in a healthy manner. These people don't have baggage or other interests contrary to that end. Marriage is no relief for adversity - in fact, Paul says that it increases adversity in this life. It must be approached from a strong position, not a position of desperation and weakness. One must be strong enough internally to meet the needs of another human being (and other human beings, in the case of children) in addition to your own.

I apologize ahead of time if I misunderstood what you said here, but I don't know that such a thing is only for healthy people without baggage. I think everyone has some baggage. Most people have experienced some type of trauma. Those of us who have experienced it the most sometimes feel like we got the raw end of the deal and no one understands our pain. But just because we experience that pain doesn't mean we don't deserve love. I know you're not exactly saying that, but I know I desire to serve my partner in marriage, make sacrifices for them, and raise Godly children. I think I'm a more suitable partner because of the things I went through and the obstacles I overcame, not weakened by it.

I mean, I hope someone can look at me and all I've been through and avoid saying, "wow, he has a lot of baggage. I don't even want to deal with him" and instead say, "wow, he is strong to have survived all of that. I know he will carry us through whatever problems we have. And he has a nice butt."

 

[Vinter]

.

 

[bèlla]

I did not think of that. I think would be easy for me to get sucked in by wants and thoughts espacially if they coincide with mine. Keep to the facts and the present and her daily life. That's brilliant.

Wants and thoughts aren't facts. They're ideas. You need to see what percentage of what they desire they're actively working towards or is it still in their head? With the proliferation of online connections people are marketing themselves and choosing suitors based upon well crafted ads. But when you move beyond the hook and begin discussing their day and what's on tap you usually see a difference. They're projecting their ideal self and life. Not the one they live.

That is something I thought about myself, I don't want to wind up being the guy that drags her down because I can't keep up. I don't think a go-getter would a good choice for me, if she has some moxie that's fine, but I am very relaxed as a person, maybe even too relaxed.

If they genuinely feel the connection will hinder them they won't go forward. In respect to overachievers, the majority prefer like-minded suitors. Even when they choose otherwise. You'll be subjected to prodding and urging. Because doing is her nature. In this respect, I don't recommend opposites. She'll never be satisfied.

This was something I paid attention to when engaging with suitors. I opted for someone insanely driven. He's worse than me. Although its tempered over the years he's beyond the norm. We love the grind. When you're wired like that you need two peas in a pod.

I don't want that. I know I have some issues myself. That is something I have to deal with. I will deal with that before I get married, before I meet a woman. Its not something I want to ruin the marriage. Likewise, If I meet a woman and she have issues they will show eventually, even before the marriage, so that's a good thing.

Everyone has challenges. But everyone's challenges don't have them. The more you're committed to resolving them while alone the less you'll have to deal with. When I realized marriage was in my future I waged war on myself and every impediment that prevented me from having the life I wanted.

I didn't sit back hoping he'd accept this or that. I had to deal with habits, stumbling blocks, people, and my innards. Because I had an end in mind and knew the man I needed to get there. I wasn't afraid to raise myself to acquire him.

It's good to know a telltale sign is rehasing issues.

A lot of people live in the past. They're still talking about what their parents did and the guy they knew in their twenties and so on. And they've moved on. Yesterday is dead. You can't move ahead with your feet pointing backwards. You'll know when you encounter someone present minded with a nod to the future.

I want that wholesome family. I did not come form that myself, but that is what I am after.

I'd make it a priority. She can offset the negative experiences and provide the relationships you lack.

This. And women sitting with their arms crossed and the man has to ask, if there is something wrong and she says no, but clearly she is mad at something and the guessing game begins. If I meet a woman like that I am going to fly out the door. No way will I put up with that kind of behavior. I want a forgiving woman.

That's the number one reason I refuse to talk everyday. It's a lot of rehashing, discontent, and stuff I'd rather not discuss. Outside of my partner, daughter and mother, I keep my dialogues to once or twice a week and that suffices.

That's the thing. I am not starting from the best of places. I haven't realy done anything beforehand. I haven't made any connections, that's something other people have. They have family, friends, work, contacts, connections. Men might now be married but they have a life that makes them interesting and appealing to women. I don't have alot to draw from.

Start now. That's why you're in this season. Start chipping away at the lack. Little by little. Get to church and build connections. Participate in bible studies and small groups to expand your circle. Develop a hobby related to the things we discussed. If you become an ant you'll have a lot to show for. In a year's time you'll be in a difference place.

I think most women are like that in Denmark. Perhaps when I start going to church women are more submissive and pliable. I may be surprised.

They're not plentiful. But you can increase your odds by inquiring about her home life and parent's relationship. If you want a submissive wife you'll have a better chance with a woman reared that way. She has less to flush from her head. I'll demonstrate it through me.

I am not a feminist. Nor have I ever been or will ever be. Nor is my mother, grandmother, her siblings or extended relations on either side. The women in my family and my father’s are submissive wives in the biblical sense. They believe in God and agree with headship. Their husbands are the leaders and the final word. That is the environment I was reared in and what I saw.

Men were valued and respected. They weren’t the butt of jokes, henpecked, or beset with power struggles with their wives. They knew their place and she knew hers. I was raised in a period when that was beginning to change. But they protected us and maintained friendships with others who felt likewise. We weren't permitted to watch programs that promoted it or related ideals that diminished the family.

I'm a product of my environment and conditioning. You couldn't turn my head if you tried. It's ingrained and I did the same with my daughter. Most women with my wiring have a penchant for leaders. You don't have to be a commander to fit the bill. Some embrace a similar mindset later on due to bible studies, prayer, maturity or positive influences.

What I see in the church isn't an accurate example of my approach to the subject with my companion. I'm his secret keeper and advocate. I don't undress him before others. Or discuss relational concerns either. I keep a lot of things to myself.

To put it in the simplest ways, I majored in him and made it my business to learn what he required to grow and thrive. I support and counter those things in myself and him. But I do it with grace and humility.

Sure we can't get everything we want. Like we have talked about in the past. I am asking alot and I don't exactly have alot of bargaining chips. I realy have to rely on that something I have that she wants or lacks or needs.

You're asking a lot but you have time on your side. Don't squander it. You can't change the other but you can alter the rest. Make it worth her while. Betterment will boost your self-image. You build one thing onto another. It won't happen overnight. But continuity will take you far.

As will good conversation, a pleasant attitude and positive disposition. Be mindful of your self-talk. Don't reinforce limited thinking. Affirm the things you selected in prayer and water it with the word.

I think if mystery woman knew about my posts about her, she would find them repulsive too. Maybe even creepy. I think what I did was fawning, atleast when I wrote about her on here.

I've never been the type who wanted a man to fall at my feet. It feels like he lowers himself and its debasing. You don't need to do that to demonstrate your interest or attraction. Worthiness goes both ways.

ETA: The splendor of the rose and the whiteness of the lily do not rob the little violet of its scent nor the daisy of its simple charm. If every tiny flower wanted to be a rose, spring would lose its loveliness.

 

[linux.poet]

But wait until you’re tested. That’s when the truth comes out.

We learn through experience where we miss the mark and fall short. It’s the end of a thing that matters most. Everyone doesn’t begin on the right footing. But they can find it if they’re willing and united.

But just because we experience that pain doesn't mean we don't deserve love.

While a marriage is a relationship, and any relationship can be a source of love, and help someone heal from pain, no one should be entering into a marriage for the express purpose of psychological healing, psychological shelter, or money. That is not what that institution is designed for.

If one needs psychological healing, we have a different institution, and that is a therapy office.

Now that doesn’t mean that people who have experienced pain should automatically be disqualified from marriage, but it does mean that those who have gone through pain and then pursue one should understand that it’s not a replacement for the healing process, nor is it designed to assist them in healing. You can’t use another person to fill the pain holes or numb the pain, you need to let God guide you toward healing. Further, it is more responsible to go through the healing process, acknowledge the pain, and deal with that first before pursuing marriage.

That is the general statement. Now I must qualify it.

I apologize ahead of time if I misunderstood what you said here, but I don't know that such a thing is only for healthy people without baggage. I think everyone has some baggage. Most people have experienced some type of trauma. Those of us who have experienced it the most sometimes feel like we got the raw end of the deal and no one understands our pain.

I apologize for being confusing. The sentence you were replying to means “baggage…contrary to that end.” Or “baggage contrary to that end.” Not the lack of baggage, but baggage specifically contrary to a successful marriage.

I grew up certain that marriage was the ticket to misery, and I was terrified when I started experiencing romantic attraction that I was going to be forced into a marriage like a moth drawn to a flame. I felt like I was a prisoner in my own body. Obviously this is a horrible attitude to have toward marriage, and if I had walked into a marriage without dealing with this attitude, it would have been an absolute miserable nightmarish disaster! I would have slowly built up resentment for my husband as my jailer which basically would have just been a fountain of me abusing him, I think.

So I did, in fact, spend years dealing with that baggage - resentment, terror, recognizing that my parents were abusive and their marriage was not how marriages typically work or operate. I had to do that to cultivate a healthy relationship to my romantic attractions and to my body, foremost. Even if I never get married, I can’t have every romantic attraction become a crippling terror. That will impair my ministry effectiveness. I also can’t run around avoiding half the population for fear they might trigger one. As time wore on, I realized that romantic attraction was just a lens to appreciate the men around me (one of many) and I realized it as a good thing rather than a cage. But it took years for that healing process to occur. There was no rushing through it. I had to be through. My husband shouldn’t have to deal with my parents’ wrongs, which is something bèlla said earlier.

The reason I included interests and baggage together was, I realized when I was on the brink of suicide that the only reason I was still alive was to reach people for the Gospel. Encouraging the sanctification process of fellow believers encourages the churches’ witness, but proclaiming the Gospel was the goal. Later I realized that motherhood was also an important Gospel ministry to evangelize and equip the little children to share the Gospel as well, though I should have known that earlier. I persisted in trying to evangelize my fellow students at public school from an early age and was disheartened by my failures. It struck me a bit as cheating the system - making new children just to evangelize them - but that didn’t mean it wasn’t a valid method.

Still, I recognize that my interest in ministry could actually push me away from marriage and my “God first” philosophy may not be helpful. Also, I’m feeling God pushing me toward chess at the moment and traveling around to chess tournaments seems antithetical to staying home and raising kids. These are interests that could make me an unhealthy marriage partner, and it would behoove me to resolve the ministry vs. mom dichotomy in favor of mom before I sign the dotted line and take the ring.

I know you're not exactly saying that, but I know I desire to serve my partner in marriage, make sacrifices for them, and raise Godly children. I think I'm a more suitable partner because of the things I went through and the obstacles I overcame, not weakened by it.

That is for you to know, my friend. I hope that you are correct, and I pray that it is so.

One thing that I should clear up that could prevent a rather huge debate is that there is a difference between men and women on this. Men frequently marry to fill some kind of emotional need - she is his helper, after all, in addition to raising the children. This is healthy and normal. Whereas women marry for more physical reasons, as it is rather hard to work a full-time job and raise children at the same time. Birthing mothers and small children need a lot of TLC, and someone to provide for their physical needs when they are in that physically vulnerable state, and protect them from harm.

Therefore, women may naturally be more therapeutically inclined and the recovery standard for men entering marriage may be lower than that of women such as myself. However, if you have too many unmet issues, it may overwhelm her. I have had entire communities of friends that were around me when I was recovering, and they would tell me when what I was giving them was too much and I needed to go find a therapist. It takes a lot of relationships for one person to recover and see all of their internal problems.

Regardless, I don’t regret my decision to delay marriage pursuit until now, and maybe a little bit later, even. A woman must have her psychological house in order before she signs - how can she assist her husband with what he is facing when she can’t even work on her own mind? Even if some repair can be done after that, given the specific issues I had going on, I’m confident that I did the right thing.