Ohio governor signs bill allowing armed school employees

[wing2000]

Very small chance huh?

So do you think that all of this hoopla about taking steps to keep school children safe from mass shooters, is nothing more than political grandstanding?

Yes, a very, very small chance. A teacher who has military combat experience may have a better chance of responding effectively.

No, I don't think the "hoopla" as you say, is political grandstanding. I hope the bi-partisan senate agreement reached over the weekend stands.....

 

[HARK!]

No, I don't think the "hoopla" as you say, is political grandstanding. I hope the bi-partisan senate agreement reached over the weekend stands.....

Well I applaud Gov. DeWine for putting a meaningful solution into action, instead of waiting for the Feds to pass legislation that is redundant, and ineffective.

 

[JustOneWay]

I went back to Ohio, and my city was gone. I won't be returning.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Things have changed, times have changed ….there is lawlessness in cities throughout the country

There is less lawlessness now than 40 years ago.

The fact is… it’s not guns…. it’s what the world refers to as mentally deranged....

We all agree that if we could identify the "mentally deranged" ones before they had a chance to commit a crime, then we could take action against only them and leave all the good law-abiding people alone. But the fact is we do not have the means to identify such people accurately enough to justify taking action that deprives them of their liberty to commit crime. Either we will be only catching the most grossly obvious cases (a tiny fraction of mass shooters) or we will be overreacting by depriving many people of their civil rights unjustly. So if you are going to posit that X is the real problem, you should propose a policy that uses that fact to prevent X from causing the problem. I don't think such a policy is possible. Prove me wrong.

I propose an armed security at the entrance with access to a drop-down security gate.

Only one entrance to the school? I would hate to see what happens during a fire and everyone has to evacuate through that one door, especially if the drop-down gate happened to fail in the down position. We would have the 1911 Triangle Fire all over again.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It is hard to answer that question because it doesn't make any sense in reality. If you are there to save the child's life, why would you think of killing the child? Self defeating.

With so little training, in the heat of the moment, such people will act irrationally. Accidents will undoubtedly happen. Why are you so opposed to the full training program? Is it the cost? Aren't the children worth it?

Then there is this: it is a bit dated, but as far as I can find, it is still accurate.

The report’s conclusion: “There hasn’t been a single mass public shooting in any school that allows teachers and staff to carry guns legally. Since at least as far back as January 2000, not a single shooting-related death or injury has occurred during or anywhere near class hours on the property of a school that allows teachers to carry.”​

The report cited is by an organization founded by John R. Lott, a known gun rights advocate. It is about as biased a report as you can get, despite the protestations on the website's "About" page to the contrary.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Armed citizens save lives every day.

There is no data on the number of lives saved by armed citizens, but there is lots of data on the number of lives lost because of armed citizens.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The undocumented have a right to go home. They are unwelcome intruders.

They are not unwelcome by all citizens.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Very small chance huh?

So do you think that all of this hoopla about taking steps to keep school children safe from mass shooters, is nothing more than political grandstanding?

The "very small chance" is in comparison to the much larger chance that arming teachers will have unintended negative consequences.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I can just see a student getting ahold of a gun this way.....

Or a very mad teacher getting mad at a student.

 

[Hank77]

Or a very mad teacher getting mad at a student.

That teacher is not mentally stable enough to be teaching.

 

[HARK!]

They are not unwelcome by all citizens.

They are unwelcome according to the law.

 

[HARK!]

There is no data on the number of lives saved by armed citizens, but there is lots of data on the number of lives lost because of armed citizens.

There's plenty of data out there; for those who are objective enough to seek it out.

Gun Effectiveness
I checked online and found some fascinating numbers. A good website with footnotes and references to authoritative sources is GunFacts.info. There I learned the following:

• Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
• Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
• 60 percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. Forty percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.
• Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.
• Fewer than 1 percent of firearms are used in the commission of a crime.

If you doubt the objectivity of the site above, it’s worth pointing out that the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day.

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows | Lawrence W. Reed

 

[HARK!]

The "very small chance" is in comparison to the much larger chance that arming teachers will have unintended negative consequences.

Pure unsupported biased speculation.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Who said that? Main stream Republicans, Independents and Democrats who support the second amendment support Licensing, background checks and and a systematic method of legally obtaining a weapon.

And I find it surprising that they do, given the stated purpose of the Second Amendment.

 

[bèlla]

I couldn’t imagine working at a school. But I understand why having a weapon appeals. You encounter a lot.

 

[sandman]

I don't think such a policy is possible.

I agree....And there will not be a substantial change until this country returns to the percepts of the Word of God, which I don't see happening anytime soon... It's taken the devil three generations for the slow erosion of God out of this country and it is highly unlikely a reversal is on the horizon.
That is the reasons I believe we do what is necessary to protect the schools ...I should say necessary and correct.
Gun laws are symbolism over substance ...they do not work. Red flag laws like gun laws... have the appearance of good... but are going to be abused by both government and and vengeful citizens; in addition to stepping on the toe's of due process. And gun confiscation will only enhance the criminal and punish the law abiding...
And while I hate the idea of taking drastic steps to fortify schools.... I hate even worse the thought of another innocent student suffering the consequences of symbolic ineffective laws....which have no bearing on the mentally possessed criminal.

I continually hear that we "shouldn't have to" have armed teachers, have metal detectors, or armed guards....and that is true ...we shouldn't ...But these are the consequences of a fallen society.
So instead of playing games with ineffective laws, reduction of clips, and outlawing specific weapons...Lets do what is necessary to fortify the schools and keep the students safe and in an environment they can learn.

 

[TLK Valentine]

My CPA brought up a very good question:

If teachers have to carry guns in the classroom now to protect students because Republicans would rather make firearms easier to obtain than harder, then will the cost of the gun qualify as a "classroom expense" for the $300 Educator Expense deduction?

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, a very, very small chance. A teacher who has military combat experience may have a better chance of responding effectively.

That's a vanishingly small percentage of teachers. Only about 1% of the American population has military combat experience, and darned few of them are teachers.

 

[hislegacy]

And I find it surprising that they do, given the stated purpose of the Second Amendment.

Why are you avoiding my question - I promise, this will be the last time I ask.

 

[hislegacy]

With so little training, in the heat of the moment, such people will act irrationally. Accidents will undoubtedly happen. Why are you so opposed to the full training program? Is it the cost? Aren't the children worth it?

Can you show me where I said I was opposed to a training program please.