Melchizedek's order

[friend of]

For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 7:17 NIV)

This verse is talking about the Lord Jesus Christ. But there is something I don't quite understand about it. For someone to be of the order of something means to proceed from it, not precede it. If I am of the order of such and such, that means that such and such was before me, I was generated by it. How could Jesus proceed from the order of anyone, like Melchizedek, when He is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last? Shouldn't Melchizedek proceed from the order of Jesus Christ, who is eternal? Why would Jesus be bound by any order of procession?

Just who is Melchizedek anyway?

discuss

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Oh there are different possibilities

1) Probably an old school priest of Yahweh, basically pre-Mosaic covenant priest. In the early Old Testament you occasionally see other people outside of Israel that serve Yahweh or are at least monotheists.

E.G. - Job, Abel and Seth, Methuselah, Abram before his Covenant, his father Terah too, Jethro, Balaam before he fell to temptation....


2) Some have speculated that he is a, pre-incarnate appearance of the Son of God, he definitely is a type & shadow of Christ, and their are other kinds of theopanies/ parousias in the early Old Testament... so not unreasonable.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Without beginning of time or end of days...

This priesthood existed with God before the created order.

 

[friend of]

Without beginning of time or end of days...

This priesthood existed with God before the created order.

But then why is Christ a priest according to the order of... some other person?

 

[Sheila Davis]

Melchizedek was King and high priest of the most high God (God our Father) in Salem of the Canaanites, who had neither mother nor father - he had no beginning or no end HE WAS NOT A HUMAN. Some ministers have preached in decades past, Jesus was Melchizedek - while other ministries say no they were not. No one knows as an absolute, but I believe Jesus came down here quite often in one form or another in those days, and just like now he is considered our high priest, the Lamb of God, the King of Kings, the Prince of Peace, not different from Melchizedek even his name mean king of righteousness
The amazing name Melchizedek: meaning and etymology

Melchizedek and Jesus: One and the Same
16 Bible verses about Melchizedek

To my understanding El / Elohim was the name of the god of the Canaanites, until they begin serving Baal, then he became the God of the Hebrews, the Hebrews became his chosen people. There are debates on this topic.
El - New World Encyclopedia

To my understanding before Jerusalem was named the Jerusalem it was named Salem. There are debates on this also _ but when you think about it, God gave the land that the Canaanites occupied to the Hebrews and that is where they set up their kingdom and named Jerusalem.
Topical Bible: Salem

Many people seem to think our Lord God only came to the Hebrews even though he is written of in the Bible before the beginning of time and the fall of man. All of the offsprings and their off springs of Noah knew God and at one point they all accepted him as God _ and they migrated through the lands taking knowledge of him with them. But they allowed themselves to be led astray and God let them go and chose a people through Abraham.

They may just be one and the same priesthood.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But then why is Christ a priest according to the order of... some other person?

There was always an eternal timeless heaven before creation began. He was an eternal spiritual entity in that realm.

 

[friend of]

There was always an eternal timeless heaven before creation began. He was an eternal spiritual entity in that realm.

okay but i thought only the triune God was in that eternal timelessness...

 

[Carl Emerson]

No, the 24 elders have been bowing before the throne from before the beginning of chronological time.

 

[friend of]

No, the 24 elders have been bowing before the throne from before the beginning of chronological time.

I don't think that's correct doctrinally. God is the only one who existed all throughout eternity, nobody else.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't think that's correct doctrinally. God is the only one who existed all throughout eternity, nobody else.

Impossible if the priestly order has no beginning of days.

 

[Sophrosyne]

As one is a member of God's family by faith, the most faithful of us is a member of all God's families always as he is the author of our faith and without faith in God Melchizadek wouldn't be a priest.

 

[com7fy8]

For someone to be of the order of something means to proceed from it, not precede it.

I don't think the Bible means that Jesus was in Melchizedek's order. But it means the priesthood of Christ is like to that of Melchizedek.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I don't think the Bible means that Jesus was in Melchizedek's order. But it means the priesthood of Christ is like to that of Melchizedek.

If Christ created Melchizedek then the order of Melchizedek is the order of Christ to begin with and both are synonymous.

 

[Eloy Craft]

For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 7:17 NIV)

This verse is talking about the Lord Jesus Christ. But there is something I don't quite understand about it. For someone to be of the order of something means to proceed from it, not precede it. If I am of the order of such and such, that means that such and such was before me, I was generated by it. How could Jesus proceed from the order of anyone, like Melchizedek, when He is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last? Shouldn't Melchizedek proceed from the order of Jesus Christ, who is eternal? Why would Jesus be bound by any order of procession?

Just who is Melchizedek anyway?

discuss

A Better Priesthood means a better Sacrifice is offered. Melchizedek is a higher order than Aaron or Levi. Their father of faith payed tithes to Melchizedek. Melchizedek King of Peace was a Pagan King but He was a Priest of the Most High God. His Kingship foreshadowing the inclusion of the Gentiles in the New Covenant. A higher order of Priest means a sacrifice of higher order. The OC Priests sacrifice animals that are repeated because the sacrifice and Priesthood was a temporal shadow of a better one. Melchizedek offered bread and wine. Jesus offers a better Sacrifice that the OT Priests were shadows of. Where's the old Priests had to offer sacrifice repeatedly Jesus is Himself Sacrificed and it only needs to happen once. A Sacrifice that came down from heaven. A Sacrifice of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
A greater Priesthood ok but what did Melchizedek Sacrifice and how is Jesus' Sacrifice of the same order.

A Sacrifice isn't Just slain but it must be eaten. Jesus Sacrifice transcended time and its effect wasn't temporary like the old sacrificial system.
it's effect is eternal and it's effect is eternal life of body and soul.

How does this tie into Melchizedek? Jesus established His eternal Priesthood on earth on holy Thursday and completes it as a ritual Patterned after the Old by instituting the a ritual that He commands us to complete because as the Sacrifice is Himself He must also be eaten. Melchizedek offered bread and wine. Jesus offers bread and wine that He is teaches is His flesh. His Body. This wasn't something anyone had ever known. Jesus Offered bread and wine as King of Peace and united His offering to Melchizedek. Jesus could establish a Priesthood on earth because His Body would be divinized and not be bound by any law. His body would transcend time and space as would His Sacrifice. It was at the last supper that He gave Himself to be slaughtered once for all and be consumed until He returned. When we eat what is eaten becomes what we are. Jesus body offers eternal life because by eating His flesh eternal life is in us and He will raise us up on the last day. This kind of thing was never done before. Without the meal on Thursday when Jesus changed bread and wine into His Body and blood The power of His Resurrectef flesh could be offered like Melchizedek as bread and wine.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, the 24 elders have been bowing before the throne from before the beginning of chronological time.

The most common interpretation I've seen in the commentaries I've read is that the 24 elders refers to the twelve patriarchs and twelve apostles. These aren't angelic beings, let alone eternal beings, these are actually just human beings. It is pointed out that that Revelation 4:4 uses πρεσβυτέρους (presbyterous), which consistently is applied exclusively to human beings in the New Testament. The reference of 24, a double of 12, as signifying the 12 patriarchs/tribes and 12 apostles is in keeping with the language employed elsewhere in the Apocalypse, namely in that the New Jerusalem is described as having 12 foundations and 12 gates symbolizing the 12 apostles and 12 patriarchs/tribes.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Impossible if the priestly order has no beginning of days.

That's a reference (figuratively) of Melchizedek, as described in the book of Genesis Melchizedek is a priest of God, but he his priesthood exists apart and prior to the Aaronic priesthood. Melchizedek therefore is a priest without any priestly lineage. He is was a priest, but no mention of where he came from is ever given. The author of Hebrews offers, therefore, Melchizedek as a type of Christ. That in the same way that Melchizedek had no priestly pedigree (as he was not of the line of Aaron), neither did our Lord. So Jesus, like Melchizedek, is a priest, in fact He is the Great High Priest, whose priestliness has no documentation--He is a priest because He offers the Sacrifice of Himself once and for all on Mt. Calvary. And His Sacrifice is everlasting, once and perfect.

A simple comparison is being made in defense of Christ over and against the temptations of those Jewish Christians who were thinking about returning to Judaism (likely out of fear of persecution).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Carl Emerson]

I guess we understand this a little differently, it seems you don't believe in an eternal heaven that pre-existed the created order.

 

[disciple Clint]

Oh there are different possibilities

1) Probably an old school priest of Yahweh, basically pre-Mosaic covenant priest. In the early Old Testament you occasionally see other people outside of Israel that serve Yahweh or are at least monotheists.

E.G. - Job, Abel and Seth, Methuselah, Abram before his Covenant, his father Terah too, Jethro, Balaam before he fell to temptation....


2) Some have speculated that he is a, pre-incarnate appearance of the Son of God, he definitely is a type & shadow of Christ, and their are other kinds of theopanies/ parousias in the early Old Testament... so not unreasonable.

I would go with number 2 above. The King of Righteousness could only be Jesus Himself.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The most common interpretation I've seen in the commentaries I've read is that the 24 elders refers to the twelve patriarchs and twelve apostles. The

I hope you don't mind but I want to run this idea about the 24 elders by you.
The interpretation you referenced 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles is fitting in that they mark the beginning of history and it's end in Christ.I don't see another religious society with a foundation of 12 ever happening again. So the 24 represent Sacred organization from The first Prophetic revelation of Jesus to it's fulfillment in time. I like that.
Here's another possibility I'm thinking.
The Foundation of the people of God in Genesis of 12 Patriarchs established the primary and most solid human society built to withstand cataclysm and disasters till the end . The house built on solid ground that must endure till the end is the human family. In Genesis it's that sacred house that the enemy wants to destroy. Because it's the foundation of the human family that must endure the 24 Elders are the 12 Patriarchs and their wives. They established marriage and the family as God intends. Satan focused on it's destruction. The Polygamy that produced the sin that caused the flood was an attack on the sacred tradition established by the 24 Elders. The 24 established and preserved monogamous marriage and the ideal family structure.
What do you think. ?

 

[friend of]

I guess we understand this a little differently, it seems you don't believe in an eternal heaven that pre-existed the created order.

Where is that in scripture?