So, just what was the Buffalo shooter's political ideology? [in his own words]

ottawak

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That's a large if. How about we try to find out if that if is actually the case before we jump to conclusions? I can't tell you what do goes through the mind of a deranged young man. Some columnist thought the cause of the young man's derangement was a toothache. He seemed to be blaming the health care system for radicalizing the deranged young man. Someone else suggested Covid restrictions over the past few years and their effect upon young minds, and not that person of influence, was to blame. I have heard, though i haven't read the "manifesto" that the deranged young man, primarily blamed some internet sites for his radicalization. There have been numerous suggestion about what caused this deranged young man to become a deranged young man and what further caused him to act in the heinous way he acted as substantially more deranged young men did not and will not engage in the racist murdering spree that he engaged in. To suggest we know with certainty from a distance what influences caused him to act this horrendously within a few weeks , let alone a few hours of first hearing of his existence is a preposterous claim.
Do you defend the views of this person of influence or just their lack of influence on the thinking of the shooter?

But if you read the manifesto you will learn that the shooter invokes a particular political theory and uses the name for it popularized by the person of influence. How might he have learned this other than from the person of influence or one of his acolytes?
 
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grasping the after wind

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Do you defend the views of this person of influence or just their lack of influence on the thinking of the shooter?

I am not going to defend anyone's views other than my own. Even if i was disposed to defend someone else's views, how could i possibly do so when I haven't actually heard the person express his views. I would be disposed to question whether the person of influence has actually expressed whatever views he has in the way that people have interpreted them to me in this thread as well as how much the deranged young man was influenced by the person of influence and how much the views expressed by the person of influence caused the deranged young man to act so horrendously. I think there is too much speculation and assuming going on and too little actual knowledge to conclude what is being concluded. I haven't read the "manifesto". I do not know if the deranged young man ever even heard of the person of influence. Nor do I have first-hand knowledge of who or what the deranged young man has actually said influenced him. All I have access to is the interpretations of those that claim to have read it. I also don't even know the actual views of the person of influence. I have only heard people tell me what they say the person of influence's views are. I am skeptical that many of them have actually heard the person of influence state his views. I suspect that most people jumping to these conclusions are doing so because they have been influenced by the views of some other people of influence that they trust.
 
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ottawak

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I haven't read the "manifesto".
Then you don't have all of the information which leads us to conclude that the shooter was likely influenced by the person of influence. But you are right. We can't know for certain. The political theory in question is widely held in conservative circles and the shooter may well have heard about it from someone else. It's just that the person of influence has done more to spread and popularize this theory amongst ordinary citizens than anyone else.

I also don't even know the actual views of the person of influence. I have only heard people tell me what they say the person of influence's views are. I am skeptical that many of them have actually heard the person of influence state his views. I suspect that most people jumping to these conclusions are doing so because they have been influenced by the views of some other people of influence that they trust.
Easy enough to check--he's on TV every night. All of us have watched him at one time or another.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Then you don't have all of the information which leads us to conclude that the shooter was likely influenced by the person of influence. But you are right. We can't know for certain. The political theory in question is widely held in conservative circles and the shooter may well have heard about it from someone else. It's just that the person of influence has done more to spread and popularize this theory amongst ordinary citizens than anyone else.


Where are these conservative circles that you frequent? I would like to go there and hear for myself how they express their theory rather than trust that I might be influenced by someone that might tend to demonize conservatives telling me what conservatives mean when they say something.

Easy enough to check--he's on TV every night. All of us have watched him at one time or another.

I have never heard the theory in question expressed by this person of influence so he must at sometimes say other things. I will endeavor to search out the theory in question.
 
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ottawak

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Where are these conservative circles that you frequent? I would like to go there and hear for myself how they express their theory rather than trust that I might be influenced by someone that might tend to demonize conservatives telling me what conservatives mean when they say something.
Here are a few names for you:
"J.D. Vance, the Republican nominee for Senate in Ohio, told Fox News that Democrats "have decided that they can't win reelection in 2022 unless they bring in a large number of new voters to replace the voters that are already here." In Arizona, GOP Senate candidate Blake Masters said Democrats wanted to increase immigration "to change the demographics of our country." Missouri’s Republican state Attorney General Eric Schmitt, who is running for Senate, also accused Democrats of "fundamentally trying to change the country" through immigration."

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-rep...lican-embrace-of-the-great-replacement-theory



I have never heard the theory in question expressed by this person of influence so he must at sometimes say other things. I will endeavor to search out the theory in question.
Sure. The person of influence is a political commentator who covers a variety of subjects from nght to night.
 
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Quite a few Africans as well perhaps.
That is on the uptick here as well. This city is a welcoming city, and has taken in African and Afghanistan refugees. I completely approve. I love people, and I despise racism.
 
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Aldebaran

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Why is that? Are these children more likely to be undesireable than the children of legal residents?

Considering what their parents were willing to do, what kind of values do you expect them to teach their kids. Like father, like son.
 
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ottawak

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Considering what their parents were willing to do, what kind of values do you expect them to teach their kids. Like father, like son.
In the list of seriousness of criminal offenses, crossing the border ranks about with a speeding ticket. Do people who have had a speeding ticket teach their kids bad values? There sure are a lot of them. If you came in on a visa it's not even a criminal offense. You seem to think of crossing the border illegally as some sort of monstously heinous crime which destroys all moral compass. I don't see why, but if you want economic migration treated more severely, made a felony, for instance--go to work to change the law.

But where are you now? Economic migrant or asylum seeker? Their legal statuses are different. Just now you were complaining about economic migrants, but conservatives seem to be mostly concerned with asylum seekers.
 
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Aldebaran

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In the list of seriousness of criminal offenses, crossing the border ranks about with a speeding ticket. Do people who have had a speeding ticket teach their kids bad values? There sure are a lot of them. If you came in on a visa it's not even a criminal offense. You seem to think of crossing the border illegally as some sort of monstously heinous crime which destroys all moral compass.

Nice smokescreen, but easy enough to see through.
Crossing the border by wading through the Rio Grande, then dodging Border Patrol is just the beginning. To get employment or much of anything else, it will be necessary to have a Social Security number and an ID. Time to steal a real American's SS number. Next stop, a good counterfeit ID maker. After all, he had to dump his ID on the other side of the border so nobody on this side would know who he really is. And his kid? He probably won't have to worry about teaching him anything at all. Just send him back to the human trafficker that loaned him the kid to make border crossing easier.
 
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Eight Foot Manchild

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Considering what their parents were willing to do, what kind of values do you expect them to teach their kids.

I have good news: your concern isn't predicated on reality.

By any fair and meaningful measure that can be objectively quantified - such as, rates of violent and property crime - illegal immigrants are fine people, by and large. They are also a net benefit to the economy.

So, you can stop worrying now.
 
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ottawak

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Nice smokescreen, but easy enough to see through.
Crossing the border by wading through the Rio Grande, then dodging Border Patrol is just the beginning. To get employment or much of anything else, it will be necessary to have a Social Security number and an ID.
Frequently provided by his employer.
Time to steal a real American's SS number. Next stop, a good counterfeit ID maker. After all, he had to dump his ID on the other side of the border so nobody on this side would know who he really is.
Why bother? Everybody will know who he is. I'm a workforce trainer who generally works in manufacturing plants. I worked in a large plant one time with many hispanics and they all had names like Ed Brown and George Smith--I even had a Conway Twitty once--but by the end of the training they would have all reverted to their regular names that I knew them by, Jose, Flaco, etc. and I would have to give the training report to the HR department to figure out who was who. :D

And his kid? He probably won't have to worry about teaching him anything at all. Just send him back to the human trafficker that loaned him the kid to make border crossing easier.
Having a kid along makes it much more difficult for the economic migrant. It might be a smoke screen for an asylum seeker, but one fairly easy to see through.
 
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Aldebaran

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I have good news: your concern isn't predicated on reality.

Sorry to inform you: The Board of Disinformation has been squashed.

By any fair and meaningful measure that can be objectively quantified - such as, rates of violent and property crime - illegal immigrants are fine people, by and large. They are also a net benefit to the economy.

The last time someone said they were "fine people" they were portrayed as supporting something undesirable. Are you supporting drug/human trafficking and the smuggling of Fentanyl into this country?

So, you can stop worrying now.

I will when immigration law starts being enforced, the Border Patrol gets all they need to do their jobs, and the wall starts being built again.
 
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Eight Foot Manchild

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Are you supporting drug/human trafficking and the smuggling of Fentanyl into this country?

What a bizarre non-sequitor.

I will when immigration law starts being enforced, the Border Patrol gets all they need to do their jobs,

They're doing fine. And the problem they're put in place to curb isn't particularly harmful in the first place. In fact, it's a net gain for the country.

I prefer to direct my worry toward actual problems. But you do you.

and the wall starts being built again.

Never happening. So, have fun living in needless fear the rest of your life, I suppose.
 
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ottawak

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I will when immigration law starts being enforced, the Border Patrol gets all they need to do their jobs, and the wall starts being built again.
Which do you want? A secure border or a useless wall as a political statement?
 
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BPPLEE

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You point out an important difference between economic migrants and asyum seekers. If the economic migrant gets tired of the pay and working conditions here he can get a free ride home to Mexico whenever he wants. The asylum seeker has no home to go to.
Then the government should give them all an electric vehicle and they can be Uber drivers it will be cheaper than buying gas.3 problems solved and we save the planet. A win for everyone.
 
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