My Search for the Countdown to Christ’s Atonement

Christian Gedge

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And since it will take me some time to go through your writings I believe it's only appropriate if you could give an overview of your work. From there we can discuss things little by little.

Thank you, Humble Penny. We share an interest in an important, but overlooked subject – the march of Old Testament chronology as it progressed toward Messiah’s new covenant. It began for me about fifteen years ago while struggling with Daniel’s prophecy of the 70 weeks. ‘The Atonement Clock’ was published in 2010 from out of that work. Here is a link and a brief overview.
  • Jacob to Moses (1st 490-yr era)
  • Shemitah and Jubilee
  • Ancient Hebrew Calendar
  • Judges timeline (2nd 490-yr era)
  • Reigns of kings (3rd 490-yr era)
  • Daniel’s 70 weeks (4th 490-yr era)
  • NT atonement in book of Daniel
  • Timeline of Jesus’ ministry
  • Times of the Gentiles
  • Future revival of the Jews
My second book, ‘Chronology of the Kingdom’ is really an expansion of the first. It is a series of high detail dates, timelines and synchronisms for academics who might want more citations, more proofs, and high-resolution charts of my chronology. Here is a link and a brief overview.
  • Early judges
  • The middle judges
  • Late judges to Saul
  • David and the calendar
  • Division of the Kingdom
  • Athaliah to Uzziah
  • The fall of Samaria
  • The fall of Jerusalem
  • Babylonian Captivity
  • The Persian era
  • The Greek era
  • Roman era till Herod
I might be letting myself in for more than I can chew. “Little by little” sounds good to me too.
 

Humble Penny

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Thank you, Humble Penny. We share an interest in an important, but overlooked subject – the march of Old Testament chronology as it progressed toward Messiah’s new covenant. It began for me about fifteen years ago while struggling with Daniel’s prophecy of the 70 weeks. ‘The Atonement Clock’ was published in 2010 from out of that work. Here is a link and a brief overview.
  • Jacob to Moses (1st 490-yr era)
  • Shemitah and Jubilee
  • Ancient Hebrew Calendar
  • Judges timeline (2nd 490-yr era)
  • Reigns of kings (3rd 490-yr era)
  • Daniel’s 70 weeks (4th 490-yr era)
  • NT atonement in book of Daniel
  • Timeline of Jesus’ ministry
  • Times of the Gentiles
  • Future revival of the Jews
My second book, ‘Chronology of the Kingdom’ is really an expansion of the first. It is a series of high detail dates, timelines and synchronisms for academics who might want more citations, more proofs, and high-resolution charts of my chronology. Here is a link and a brief overview.
  • Early judges
  • The middle judges
  • Late judges to Saul
  • David and the calendar
  • Division of the Kingdom
  • Athaliah to Uzziah
  • The fall of Samaria
  • The fall of Jerusalem
  • Babylonian Captivity
  • The Persian era
  • The Greek era
  • Roman era till Herod
I might be letting myself in for more than I can chew. “Little by little” sounds good to me too.
Thank you very much brother Gedge for that clear and easy to understand overiew of your work in your OP. As you stated biblical chronology is a subject which is majorly overlooked, and I would add, taken for granted as many people believe it's just as simple as asking the "god" called Google to get your answer.

What I understand from your OP is that while tackling the 70 Weeks of Daniel you saw a connection with the 490 Years and the Jubilee Cycle. From here you also saw from your in-depth research that Scriptural proof exists to show these Jubilee cycles on a bigger scale which can be mapped out chronologically?

Please let me know if I understand your work correctly or not, and if I am missing anything.
 
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Christian Gedge

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What I understand from your OP is that while tackling the 70 Weeks of Daniel you saw a connection with the 490 Years and the Jubilee Cycle. From here you also saw from your in-depth research that Scriptural proof exists to show these Jubilee cycles on a bigger scale which can be mapped out chronologically?
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Are you saying it too? I traced a pattern of 'sevens' from as far back as Bethel which continued through the history of Israel and culminated in the ministry of Jesus.

There are implications: The first is how Daniels 'weeks' do not stand alone. They are one and the same count as the Sabbatical years given to Moses in Leviticus 25. The second is that there was more than one 490-year span. Precise dates can be claimed.
 
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Humble Penny

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Yes, that is what I'm saying. Are you saying it too? I traced a pattern of 'sevens' from as far back as Bethel which continued through the history of Israel and culminated in the ministry of Jesus.

There are implications: The first is how Daniels 'weeks' do not stand alone. They are one and the same count as the Sabbatical years given to Moses in Leviticus 25. The second is that there was more than one 490-year span. Precise dates can be claimed.
While not the central theme in my work: I have recognized the Jubilee pattern being intertwined with the 7,000 Year timeline for the world to exist. I made this connection as I was tackling the 70 Weeks as I noticed that 490 Years = 10 Jubilees. However I took it a step further:

7,000 Years ÷ 50 Years = 140 Jubilees
7 Weeks × 7 Years = 49 Years
49 Years + 1 Year = 50 Years = 1 Jubilee

Otherwise my work focuses on proving that the reckoning according to the Septuagint matches Scripture and world history. And I show in my work that there are four main times God wants us to know:

1) 5470 AM (Christ's Birth)
2) 5500 AM (Christ's Death)
3) 6000 AM (Christ's Second Coming)
4) 7000 AM (Final Judgement)

 
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Humble Penny

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While not the central theme in my work: I have recognized the Jubilee pattern being intertwined with the 7,000 Year timeline for the world to exist. I made this connection as I was tackling the 70 Weeks as I noticed that 490 Years = 10 Jubilees. However I took it a step further:

7,000 Years ÷ 50 Years = 140 Jubilees
7 Weeks × 7 Years = 49 Years
49 Years + 1 Year = 50 Years = 1 Jubilee

Otherwise my work focuses on proving that the reckoning according to the Septuagint matches Scripture and world history. And I show in my work that there are four main times God wants us to know:

1) 5470 AM (Christ's Birth)
2) 5500 AM (Christ's Death)
3) 6000 AM (Christ's Second Coming)
4) 7000 AM (Final Judgement)
One other thing I forgot to add in regards to the Jubilee Cycle is that it began from the moment of creation of the luminaries on the 4th Day which marks the beginning of the calendar year. So my work focuses primarily on showing the Septuagint to be the true timeline of Scripture which points to the aforementioned dates above.
 
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Humble Penny

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This thread is the best place I'd recommend anyone beginning to look at my work to read before looking at the other series of blog posts I have:

Did Methuselah Die 14 Years after the Flood?

Once you follow this hyperlink, in it is included the hyperlinks for my two blog series which go more in depth on my work on biblical chronology from Adam to the Final Judgment.
 
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Humble Penny

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Thank you, Humble Penny. We share an interest in an important, but overlooked subject – the march of Old Testament chronology as it progressed toward Messiah’s new covenant. It began for me about fifteen years ago while struggling with Daniel’s prophecy of the 70 weeks. ‘The Atonement Clock’ was published in 2010 from out of that work. Here is a link and a brief overview.
  • Jacob to Moses (1st 490-yr era)
  • Shemitah and Jubilee
  • Ancient Hebrew Calendar
  • Judges timeline (2nd 490-yr era)
  • Reigns of kings (3rd 490-yr era)
  • Daniel’s 70 weeks (4th 490-yr era)
  • NT atonement in book of Daniel
  • Timeline of Jesus’ ministry
  • Times of the Gentiles
  • Future revival of the Jews
My second book, ‘Chronology of the Kingdom’ is really an expansion of the first. It is a series of high detail dates, timelines and synchronisms for academics who might want more citations, more proofs, and high-resolution charts of my chronology. Here is a link and a brief overview.
  • Early judges
  • The middle judges
  • Late judges to Saul
  • David and the calendar
  • Division of the Kingdom
  • Athaliah to Uzziah
  • The fall of Samaria
  • The fall of Jerusalem
  • Babylonian Captivity
  • The Persian era
  • The Greek era
  • Roman era till Herod
I might be letting myself in for more than I can chew. “Little by little” sounds good to me too.
I am reading through your writings brother Gedge and I must applaud you for your creative approach to discovering many similar things that I have in my own research, albeit a different way, and am enjoying reading your work.
 
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Christian Gedge

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I made this connection as I was tackling the 70 Weeks as I noticed that 490 Years = 10 Jubilees.
When you realise a Jubilee is 49 years, it hits between your eyes, doesn’t it?

And I show in my work that there are four main times God wants us to know:

1) 5470 AM (Christ's Birth)
2) 5500 AM (Christ's Death)
3) 6000 AM (Christ's Second Coming)
4) 7000 AM (Final Judgement)
You’ve got me scratching my head over these HP. Do you give BC and AD dates for his birth and death?
 
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Humble Penny

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When you realise a Jubilee is 49 years, it hits between your eyes, doesn’t it?


You’ve got me scratching my head over these HP. Do you give BC and AD dates for his birth and death?
The overview and details are in the hyperlink I left in post #6 of this thread. As for the short answer:

5470 AM
corresponds to 0 BC/1 AD
5500 AM
corresponds to 30 AD

This may be checked against the reigns of Augustus Caesar, king Herod, and Tiberius Caesar and the Olympiads:

Legend Key
1 Olympiad = 4 Years

1st Year of Augustus to Christ's Death
184th Olympiad to 202nd Olympiad = 18 Olympiads/72 Years
18 Olympiads x 4 Years = 72 Years


In the Chronicon of Eusebius and Jerome we read that Chist was born in the 42nd Year of Augustus which is the 33rd Year of Herod, therefore Herod came into power in the 9th Year of Augustus. The Massacre of the Innocents then occured in the 44th Year of Augustus and the 35th Year of Herod: for the magi tricked Herod 2 Years after Jesus Christ was born which is what Matthew tells us about the timing of the Star's appearance.

So in the 57th Year of Augustus our Lord was in His 15th Year; and in the 15th Year of Tiberius our Lord was in His 30th Year. Phelgon in his Olympiads, and whose words are preserved by Jerome, tells us that the darkness over the land and the great earthquake which occured at the the death of Christ was in the 202nd Olympiad: this evidence makes it clear that Christ died in His 30th Year at the close of the 202nd Olympiad.

And to be sure this isn't wishful thinking we must count backwards from the death of our Lord to date the founding of Rome which Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Eusebius, and Jerome tell us occured in the 7th Olympiad:

Christ's Death to 1st Olympiad
202 Olympiads x 4 Years = 808 Years
30 AD - 808 Years = -778 BC

Christ's Death to Romulus
202 Olympiads - 7 Olympiads = 195 Olympiads
195 Olympiads x 4 Years = 780 Years
30 AD - 780 Years = -750 BC
 
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Humble Penny

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The overview and details arein the hyperlink I left in post #6 of this thread. As for the short answer:

5470 AM
corresponds to 0 BC/1 AD
5500 AM
corresponds to 30 AD

This may be checked against the reigns of Augustus Caesar, king Herod, and Tiberius Caesar and the Olympiads:

Legend Key
1 Olympiad = 4 Years

1st Year of Augustus to Christ's Death
184th Olympiad to 202nd Olympiad = 18 Olympiads/72 Years
18 Olympiads x 4 Years = 72 Years


In the Chronicon of Eusebius and Jerome we read that Chist was born in the 42nd Year of Augustus which is the 33rd Year of Herod, therefore Herod came into power in the 9th Year of Augustus. The Massacre of the Innocents then occured in the 44th Year of Augustus and the 35th Year of Herod: for the magi tricked Herod 2 Years after Jesus Christ was born which is what Matthew tells us about the timing of the Star's appearance.

So in the 57th Year of Augustus our Lord was in His 15th Year; and in the 15th Year of Tiberius our Lord was in His 30th Year. Phelgon in his Olympiads, and whose words are preserved by Jerome, tells us that the darkness over the land and the great earthquake which occured at the the death of Christ was in the 202nd Olympiad: this evidence makes it clear that Christ died in His 30th Year at the close of the 202nd Olympiad.

And to be sure this isn't wishful thinking we must count backwards from the death of our Lord to date the founding of Rome which Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Eusebius, and Jerome tell us occured in the 7th Olympiad:

Christ's Death to 1st Olympiad
202 Olympiads x 4 Years = 808 Years
30 AD - 808 Years = -778 BC

Christ's Death to Romulus
202 Olympiads - 7 Olympiads = 195 Olympiads
195 Olympiads x 4 Years = 780 Years
30 AD - 780 Years = -750 BC
Also when you take into account the words of Titus Livius or "Livy" who says at the end of his first book of Ab Urbe Condita Libri "Books From the Founding of the City" or in modern English titles History of Rome that from Romulus to the Roman Republic are 244 Years. The years are reckoned as follows:

Romulus to Republic
-750 BC + 244 Years = -506 BC

Republic to Death of Julius Caesar
-506 BC + 464 Years = -42 BC

and to be precisely sure this corresponds to the 1st Year of Augustus Caesar we may simply count backwards 72 Years from Christ's death...

Christ's Death to Augustus Caesar
30 AD - 72 Years = -42 BC

So we see that Christ cannot be born on anytime before 0 BC or in other words on a -# BC Date.
 
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Christian Gedge

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This thread is the best place I'd recommend anyone beginning to look at my work to read before looking at the other series of blog posts I have:

Did Methuselah Die 14 Years after the Flood?

Once you follow this hyperlink, in it is included the hyperlinks for my two blog series which go more in depth on my work on biblical chronology from Adam to the Final Judgment.
Ok, looking now.
 
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Christian Gedge

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Oh my goodness! You have trod where angels fear to tread trying to reconcile the Septuagint with the Masoretic and then with Josephus too. And all the way back to Adam! :swoon:

But I respect the enormous amount of work you have put into this. May I make a suggestion for you? There is a site called academia.edu where you can load up your blogs for peer review. It has been a very helpful platform for me.

As for my chronology, I only go back to the patriarchs. Any earlier than Abraham, I probably won’t be much use to you.
 
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Oh my goodness! You have trod where angels fear to tread trying to reconcile the Septuagint with the Masoretic and then with Josephus too. And all the way back to Adam! :swoon:

But I respect the enormous amount of work you have put into this. May I make a suggestion for you? There is a site called academia.edu where you can load up your blogs for peer review. It has been a very helpful platform for me.

As for my chronology, I only go back to the patriarchs. Any earlier than Abraham, I probably won’t be much use to you.
Thank you so much brother Gedge for taking the time to look at my work! I am very happy that I had someone with your scholarly level be able to see my work here and understand what I am actually doing. I will definitely take up your advice concerning Academia.edu

Yes reconciling the three aforementioned texts was a monumental task! Your work is still very valuable because I have seen that there are others living in our days which see the patterns me and you have picked up on concerning the Jubilee Cycle and biblical chronology.
 
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Humble Penny

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On a side note I was really intrigued by your work concerning the 3.5 Year of Daniel and how you managed to connect that to 600 Lunations in a Jubilee Cycle! You will really benefit from the small work I did concerning this:

Introduction to Enoch's Intercalary Lunar Months

My chart on post #7 of that thread will be of much use to you. And I found that this same intercalation of 1 Month every 3 Years was recognized by the community at Qumran who would sight what they called in Hebrew the OToT "signs" of the Moon which would occur every 3 Years.
 
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Humble Penny

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On a side note I was really intrigued by your work concerning the 3.5 Year of Daniel and how you managed to connect that to 600 Lunations in a Jubilee Cycle! You will really benefit from the small work I did concerning this:

Introduction to Enoch's Intercalary Lunar Months

My chart on post #7 of that thread will be of much use to you. And I found that this same intercalation of 1 Month every 3 Years was recognized by the community at Qumran who would sight what they called in Hebrew the OToT "signs" of the Moon which would occur every 3 Years.
Seeing that my primary strength is in my work as a chronologist, I only have a very basic and intuitive grasp of astronomy, so I think you might know more than me, or at the very least can contribute deeper insight into what I have found. When I found that the luminaries follow a Jubilee Cycle where 50 Solar Years = 600 Lunations I was quite stunned at how it surpassed the Metonic Cycle!
 
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AbbaLove

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I traced a pattern of 'sevens' from as far back as Bethel which continued through the history of Israel and culminated in the ministry of Jesus.
Being it's your belief that Sunday is now the Christian Sabbath recognized by the LORD. His Resurrection taking place on the 1st Day of the Week and later Jewish disciplies meeting together on the 1st Day of the Week to Break Bread and fellowship together.

Is this what you meant by "a pattern of 'sevens' ... culminated ... in the ministry of Jesus."

Could you explain what you mean by "Countdown To Christ's Atonement" in the Thread Title as both non-Jewish Christians and Messianic Jews believe Christ's Atonement occurred nearly 2000 years ago as prophesied in Isaiah 53 ...

4 Smitten by God, and afflicted.

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.

11 By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.

12 And He bore the sins of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

Matthew 27:51
Behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent." ... www.gotquestions.org/temple-veil-torn.html

 
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Christian Gedge

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Being it's your belief that Sunday is now the Christian Sabbath recognized by the LORD. His Resurrection taking place on the 1st Day of the Week and later Jewish disciplies meeting together on the 1st Day of the Week to Break Bread and fellowship together.

Is this what you meant by "a pattern of 'sevens' ... culminated ... in the ministry of Jesus."

Hi AbbaLove. I wasn’t so much thinking of the weekly Sabbath in this topic, but the Shemitah and Jubilee.

Could you explain what you mean by "Countdown To Christ's Atonement" in the Thread Title as both non-Jewish Christians and Messianic Jews believe Christ's Atonement occurred nearly 2000 years ago as prophesied in Isaiah 53 ...

A grid exists of weeks, periods of seven years, and multiples of seven that extend beneath the pages of scripture, surfacing briefly inside stories and seemingly innocuous chronologies. The ‘lost’ Sabbatical and Jubilee years are key to this, but finding them requires a careful examination of the chronology of the Judges, the Kings of Israel, and the era between the Old and New Testaments. To uncover these cycles, I identified scriptural cases, dated them, cross-checked them with the continuous count, and crosschecked them again with known extra-biblical records.

The resulting timeline reveals a stunning convergence of data to Jesus of Nazareth. The Sabbatical years were not lost after all, but counted inexorably to His atoning sacrifice. As you say, Isaiah 53, but I would add Daniel 9:24 – a sadly overlooked description of Christ’s atonement.
 
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AbbaLove

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The resulting timeline reveals a stunning convergence of data to Jesus of Nazareth. The Sabbatical years were not lost after all, but counted inexorably to His atoning sacrifice. As you say, Isaiah 53, but I would add Daniel 9:24 – a sadly overlooked description of Christ’s atonement.
"Christ's atonement" occurred on "7 April 30" C.E as shown in your diagram on p. 82 ... https://www.5loaves2fishes.net/the-atonement-clock . Your timeline is the same as the Torah Calendar ... www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y30M1 ... Pesach 14 Aviv/Nisan

What needs some clarification is why you didn't Title this thread ... My Search for the Countdown to Christ’s Reign (or Kingdom) ... or "Anointing" instead of "Atonement" ? Doing so gives one the impression that you may actually believe Christ's Atonement wasn't fullly filfilled at Calvary.

Daniel 9:24 (also referring to Christ's Atonement on "7 April 30" C.E.Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the *most holy.

Perhaps you meant to say: "My Search for the Countdown to Christ's Anointing" as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords as did Daniel and in: Numbers 14:21, Psalms 72:19, Matthew 6:10

You certainly must have had good reason why you chose to go with "Atonement" instead of "Reign" or "Kingdom". Why is your theology such that you believe Christ needs to make an "Atonement" (yet to come) ? Daniel 9:24 is referring to Christ as the *Most Holy which is yet to enthrone Jerusalem ... Revelation 1:5, Revelation 2:17, Revelation 19:16

Yireh Shalem has a deeper meaning: “Complete awe.”
יראה = Awe
שלם = complete

Yireh Shalem
(or Jerusalem) therefore means “complete awe,”
a state where one is so in touch with GOD as to be in constant rapture

Mount-of-olives1_806.jpg


If I forget you, O Jerusalem,
let my right hand forget its skill!
Let my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth,
if I do not remember you,
if I do not set Jerusalem
above my highest joy!



 
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Thanks for mentioning the timeline on page 82. I'll put it up here for readers.

cornelius.png


What needs some clarification is why you didn't Title this thread ... My Search for the Countdown to Christ’s Reign (or Kingdom) ... or "Anointing" instead of "Atonement" ? Doing so gives one the impression that you may actually believe Christ's Atonement wasn't fullly filfilled at Calvary.

I'll try to explain. As I understand it, the 70th week was an entire week of 'Jubilee' culminating in AD 34 when the times of Jacob ended and the times of the Gentiles began. So, yes, Jesus was anointed at the beginning, his atoning death in the middle, and the outpouring of the Spirit on the Gentiles at the end of the week.

Many writers place the beginning of the Kingdom fifty days after the atoning sacrifice. That may be so as far as Jews were concerned, but the broader picture is with the Gentile Pentecost. (Acts 10)

Have you read all of chapter 14 AbbaLove?
 
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Have you read all of chapter 14 AbbaLove?
Do you realize your "Christian" "puffed up" comment (as a guest in this MJ forum) comes across as talking down to a Messianic member of this CF forum?

Would it be any different if i were to say to you, "Have you read all of Chapter 2" of the Acts Of The [Jewish] Apostles. FWIW, Messianics believe Luke is of Jewish ancestry; whereas some Christians mistakenly believe Luke is a gentile (non-Jewish) Believer without any proof to support their theology theory.

As a Messianic i will advise you (a gentile Christian) that it would be worthwhile for you to read Romans 11 (especially verses 13-24), so you don't make the same mistake again in this CF Messianic forum. So henceforth when replying to a Messianic you don't come across as if you think yourself to be more knowledgeable of scripture than are Messianic Believers ...

1 Corinthians 8:1... Knowledge [alone] makes [people self-righteously] arrogant, but love [that unselfishly seeks the best for others] builds up and encourages others to grow [in wisdom].​

FWIW i've probably read the Acts of the Jewish Apostles just as much or even more than you with the guiding help of His Spirit. We may both agree that HPs following chronology is suspect to say the least ...
5470 AM corresponds to 0 BC/1 AD
5500 AM
corresponds to 30 AD
HPs knowledge is more "puffed up" than anyone that has ever before posted in this MJ forum. HP would have us believe that the inspired writing of John's Gospel has either been corrupted down through the ages or wasn't inspired by the Holy Spirit or both. We know what GOD thinks of that kind of human logic.

In affect HP's chronology is saying that Yeshuah was only around 30 years old when crucified. There are more than a few Messianics that have previously provided historical evidence in the past to support the belief that Yeshua was born sometime between 4 B.C.E. to 3 B.C.E.

HP's chronological theory suggests that the Word Of GOD in the Gospel of John is suspect. Any member that chooses the name "Humble Penny" has a high opinion of themself. Like humble apple pie bursting at its seams.


 
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