The Content of God's Gift of Salvation

[Clare73]

The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as someone giving you the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, and in a the same way, part of
the content of God's gift of salvation is the experience of teaching us to obey His law.

Not quite. . .

The law is too low a standard for the New Covenant of grace.
There is nothing in the law about giving a ride to a neighbor who needs one. . .or a thousand other things that love does.
A lot of the Decalogue is about criminal behavior.
The New Covenant law of love (Matthew 22:37-40) is a much higher standard than the Old Covenant law of Moses.

Because the Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).
Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

The law (temporarily added to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace) has completed what it was given to do... the old covenant is now obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) as the law on which it was based is set aside (Hebrews 7:18-19; Romans 8:2-3). . .and we are back to a covenant of grace alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) just as it was with Abraham.

It is for freedom (from the yoke of slavery to the law, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 5:1b) that Christ has set us free (Galatians 5:1a) and taken us back to a covenant of grace alone.

Keeping in mind that loving your neighbor as yourself is not new to the NT, but it was not part of the Mosaic law on which the temporary Mosaic Covenant was conditioned and, therefore, it remains in the New Covenant--as the law of Jesus Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

Crickets. . .

 

[Soyeong]

Not quite. . .

The law is too low a standard for the New Covenant of grace.

God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law in both the OT and the NT, so His law is not too low a standard.

There is nothing in the law about giving a ride to a neighbor who needs one. . .or a thousand other things that love does.

Giving a ride to a neighbor who needs one is an example of loving our neighbor as ourselves, so that is in accordance with the law.

The New Covenant law of love

(Matthew 22:37-40) is a much higher standard than the Old Covenant law of Moses.

The greatest two commandments are part of the Mosaic Covenant, so they can't be a higher standard than that a standard that is inclusive of them.

The Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).

In Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin against God to commit adultery, so there is nothing about a law being included as part of the Mosaic Covenant that means that it is temporary, especially when all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). Jesus did not go around telling people people that the law had ended and they needed to stop repenting, but just the opposite, and in Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to end God's laws for how to do good works, but that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so you should not interpret Galatians 3:19 in a way that undermines everything that Jesus accomplished through his ministry and through the cross. In Exodus 33:13 and Psalms 119:29-30, they wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to obey His law, so the Mosaic Covenant is also a covenant of grace. If you think that we are under the Abraham Covenant, then you should think that circumcision is required as the sign of that covenant.

Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin

(Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

If you agree that God's law was given to reveal what sin is and that we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey it. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the law leads us to Christ because the goal of the law is to teach us how to know him, in other words, how to have a relationship with him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can reject what he taught and go back to doing what God has revealed to be sin. In Galatian 3:26, for in Christ we are sons of God through faith, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, which was in obedience to God's law, and in 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, so again Galatians 3 should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God, especially because Paul was not an enemy of God. In Galatians 3:10-12, it contrasts the works of the law with the Book of the Law and those who rely on works of the law instead of relying on the Book of the Law are under the curse for not relying on the Book of the Law. In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, obedience to God's law brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so relying on God's laws is what brings life and a blessing while it is refusing to relying on it that brings a curse. In Deuteronomy 28:1-14, it lists the blessing for living in obedience to His law while verse 15-68 list the curse for living in disobedience to His law, and there are many other verses that state the same thing. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to think that God will curse us for doing that and to think that we are better off refusing to repent.

Indeed, the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous by grace through faith, and I have never stated anything otherwise, and I've said this to you before.

Now

that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

Jesus was asked which of the commandments was the greatest, so the answer to that question should not be understood as to follow something other than the commandments. If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, rape, incest, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for everything else in the Mosaic Law, which is why Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two commandments, so they are all connected, and being under the greatest two commandments is the same as being under the Mosaic Law because that is the same example that Jesus set for us to follow. In Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant involves following the Torah, which is also known as the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it.

The law

(temporarily added to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace) has completed what it was given to do... the old covenant is now obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) as the law on which it was based is set aside (Hebrews 7:18-19; Romans 8:2-3). . .and we are back to a covenant of grace alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) just as it was with Abraham.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), and the only way that law for how to express God's righteousness could be temporary is if God's eternal righteousness is temporary. In Romans 8:2-3, we have been set free from sin in order to be free to obey God's law and meet its righteous requirement, not the other way around, so that has nothing to do with setting it aside, but just the opposite. Furthermore, in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation by our works lest anyone should boast, choosing to do good works is nevertheless an integral part of our salvation. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Mosaic Law is how the Israelites knew what sin is (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4), so the experience of living in obedience to it is inherently part of the concept of Jesus saving us from the experience of living in disobedience to it. It is contradictory for someone to want to have salvation while thinking that they aren't obligated to obey God's Law. In Genesis 26:5, Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws, so that is just as it was with Abraham.

It is for freedom

(from the yoke of slavery to the law, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 5:1b) that Christ has set us free (Galatians 5:1a) and taken us back to a covenant of grace alone.

The reason that God saved the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt was not in order to put them under slavery to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1) and God's law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45). In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression fo the Mosaic Law that puts us in slavery, while it is the truth that sets us free.

 

[Clare73]

God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law in both the OT and the NT, so
His law is not too low a standard.

The facts are otherwise.
It's lower than the New Covenant standard of love, which requires much more than does the Mosaic law.

Giving a ride to a neighbor who needs one is an example of
loving our neighbor as ourselves, so that is in accordance with the law.

It's not about "in accordance," for everything that is not against it is "in accordance" with it.
It's about
1) what is expressly commanded or legislated in the Decalogue and ceremonial laws being a much lower standard than the New Covenant laws of the NT, and
2) Jesus New Covenant laws of the NT, by not being part of the Decalogue and ceremonial laws, thereby not being cancelled (Colossians 2:14) and rendered inoperative (Ephesians 2:15) as the Mosaic laws were, and their higher standard being moved into the New Covenant laws of the NT.

In Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin against God to commit adultery, so there is nothing about a law being included as part of the Mosaic Covenant that means that it is temporary, especially when all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). Jesus did not go around telling people people that the law had ended and they needed to stop repenting, but just the opposite, and in Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to end God's laws for how to do good works, but that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so you should not interpret Galatians 3:19 in a way that undermines everything that Jesus accomplished through his ministry and through the cross. In Exodus 33:13 and Psalms 119:29-30, they wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to obey His law, so the Mosaic Covenant is also a covenant of grace. If you think that we are under the Abraham Covenant, then you should think that circumcision is required as the sign of that covenant.

If you agree that God's law was given to reveal what sin is and that we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey it.

What part of "Love is fulfillment of the whole law" and "any other commandment there may be" (Romans 13:8-10) do you not understand?

It's not about "understanding," it's about believing.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the law leads us to Christ because the goal of the law is to teach us how to know him, in other words, how to have a relationship with him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can reject what he taught and go back to doing what God has revealed to be sin. In Galatian 3:26, for in Christ we are sons of God through faith, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, which was in obedience to God's law, and in 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, so again Galatians 3 should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God, especially because Paul was not an enemy of God. In Galatians 3:10-12, it contrasts the works of the law with the Book of the Law and those who rely on works of the law instead of relying on the Book of the Law are under the curse for not relying on the Book of the Law. In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, obedience to God's law brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so relying on God's laws is what brings life and a blessing while it is refusing to relying on it that brings a curse. In Deuteronomy 28:1-14, it lists the blessing for living in obedience to His law while verse 15-68 list the curse for living in disobedience to His law, and there are many other verses that state the same thing. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to think that God will curse us for doing that and to think that we are better off refusing to repent.

Indeed, the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous by grace through faith, and I have never stated anything otherwise, and I've said this to you before.



Jesus was asked which of the commandments was the greatest, so the answer to that question should not be understood as to follow something other than the commandments. If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, rape, incest, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for everything else in the Mosaic Law, which is why Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two commandments, so they are all connected, and being under the greatest two commandments is the same as being under the Mosaic Law because that is the same example that Jesus set for us to follow. In Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant involves following the Torah, which is also known as the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it.



All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), and the only way that law for how to express God's righteousness could be temporary is if God's eternal righteousness is temporary. In Romans 8:2-3, we have been set free from sin in order to be free to obey God's law and meet its righteous requirement, not the other way around, so that has nothing to do with setting it aside, but just the opposite. Furthermore, in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation by our works lest anyone should boast, choosing to do good works is nevertheless an integral part of our salvation. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Mosaic Law is how the Israelites knew what sin is (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4), so the experience of living in obedience to it is inherently part of the concept of Jesus saving us from the experience of living in disobedience to it. It is contradictory for someone to want to have salvation while thinking that they aren't obligated to obey God's Law. In Genesis 26:5, Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws, so that is just as it was with Abraham.



The reason that God saved the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt was not in order to put them under slavery to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1) and God's law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45). In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression fo the Mosaic Law that puts us in slavery, while it is the truth that sets us free.

Strawman. . .after strawman. . .

Non-responsive.

 

[Soyeong]

The facts are otherwise.

Exodus 33:13 and Psalms 119:29-30 say otherwise, so your "facts" are wrong.

It's lower than the New Covenant standard of love, which requires much more than does the Mosaic law.

Love is the standard of the Mosaic Law, which is why Jesus summed it up as being about how to love God and our neighbor, and why is why love fulfills it. If love wasn't the standard of the Mosaic Law, then love would not fulfill it.

It's not about "in accordance," for everything that is not against it is "in accordance" with it.
It's about
1) what is expressly commanded or legislated in the Decalogue and ceremonial laws being a much lower standard than the New Covenant laws of the NT, and
2) Jesus New Covenant laws of the NT, by not being part of the Decalogue and ceremonial laws, thereby not being cancelled (Colossians 2:14) and rendered inoperative (Ephesians 2:15) as the Mosaic laws were, and their higher standard being moved into the New Covenant laws of the NT.

Telling someone to do a headstand would not be against the Torah, but neither would it be in accordance with it, whereas all of the commands in the Torah either express love for God and our neighbor, so they are all in accordance with and hang on the greatest two commands. The Torah contains the commands to love God and our neighbor, so it can't be a lower standard than those two commands. You need to give justification for why Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 should be interpreted as referring to the Torah instead of just insisting that they do, especially when Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the Torah.

What part of "Love is fulfillment of the whole law" and "any other commandment there may be" (Romans 13:8-10) do you not understand?

For example, the Torah reveals that it is a sin to commit rape, and if we love God and our neighbor, then we will not commit rape, so loving our neighbor fulfills that command, and if someone's obedience to the greatest two commands does not include refraining from committing rape, then they have an incomplete understanding of what it means to love God and our neighbor, and they would not be treating the command to love as being the fulfillment of the command to refrain from committing rape. Do you agree that it is a sin to commit rape? Do you agree that the command to love our neighbor is inclusive of refraining from committing rape? If God's law has been abolished as you suggest, then it is not a sin to commit rape and we have no obligation to refrain from doing that, but if we are obligated to love God and our neighbor, as you suggest, then we are also obligated to refrain from committing rape.

Strawman. . .after strawman. . .

Non-responsive.

How is it a strawman?

 

[Clare73]

Exodus 33:13 and Psalms 119:29-30 say otherwise, so your "facts" are wrong.



Love is the standard of the Mosaic Law, which is why Jesus summed it up as being about how to love God and our neighbor, and why is why love fulfills it. If love wasn't the standard of the Mosaic Law, then love would not fulfill it.



Telling someone to do a headstand would not be against the Torah, but neither would it be in accordance with it, whereas all of the commands in the Torah either express love for God and our neighbor, so they are all in accordance with and hang on the greatest two commands. The Torah contains the commands to love God and our neighbor, so it can't be a lower standard than those two commands. You need to give justification for why Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 should be interpreted as referring to the Torah instead of just insisting that they do, especially when Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the Torah.



For example, the Torah reveals that it is a sin to commit rape, and if we love God and our neighbor, then we will not commit rape, so loving our neighbor fulfills that command, and if someone's obedience to the greatest two commands does not include refraining from committing rape, then they have an incomplete understanding of what it means to love God and our neighbor, and they would not be treating the command to love as being the fulfillment of the command to refrain from committing rape. Do you agree that it is a sin to commit rape? Do you agree that the command to love our neighbor is inclusive of refraining from committing rape? If God's law has been abolished as you suggest, then it is not a sin to commit rape and we have no obligation to refrain from doing that, but if we are obligated to love God and our neighbor, as you suggest, then we are also obligated to refrain from committing rape.



How is it a strawman?

Previously addressed. . .repeatedly.

 

[Soyeong]

Faith is in the law of faith, which is in Christ ( grace and truth) and not in the law ( of Moses)..

There are many verses that connect faith with obedience to the Law of Moses and breaking faith with disobedience to it, so it is the law of faith, which is also in Christ because he walked in obedience to the Law of Moses, and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6).

The Law of Moses was given as a gift for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13) and obedience to any set of instructions that are claimed to be for our own good is about putting our faith in the one who gave them to rightly guide us, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law of Moses. What we believe is expressed through our actions, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works is what faith looks like. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of someone doing works. In John 3:36, believing in Christ is equated with obeying him. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept God's commandments are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In John 6:40, those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in Jesus and to know him. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of Moses, so living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to the Law of Moses. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, in Romans 16:25-26, Paul's Gospel and the preaching of Christ was to bring about the obedience of faith. In Deuteronomy 28:1, it speaks about faithfully obeying the voice of the Lord. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds the Law of Moses. God is trustworthy, therefore the Law of Moses is also trustworthy (2 Samuel 7:28, Nehemiah 9:13, Psalms 19:7, 18:30, 33:4, 111:7, 119:30, 42, 75, 86, 99, 138, 142, 151, 160) and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so to put our faith in the Law of Moses is to put our faith in the Lawgiver, while to deny that it the law of faith is to deny the faithfulness of God.

In Deuteronomy 32:51, Moses broke faith with God because he did not obey what God commanded him to do. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to the Law of Moses is referred to as breaking faith. In Joshua 7:1 and 1 Chronicles 2:7, Israel broke faith by not doing what God commanded. In 1 Chronicles 10:13, Saul broke faith because he did not keep the command of the Lord. In 2 Chronicles 33:19, sin is equated with faithlessness. In Jeremiah 3:6-14, Israel was faithless because they did not obey God. In Ezekiel 14:13, sin is equated with acting faithlessly. In Psalms 119:158, David said that he looked at the faithless with disgust because they did not keep God's commands. In Romans 1:29-32 and Revelation 21:8, being faithless is associated with actions that are in disobedience to God. In 2 Timothy 3:8, those who oppose Moses also oppose the truth, being corrupted of mind and disqualified in regard to the faith.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

In Romans 7:25, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin, so he equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit by contrasting them both with the law of sin and death, and the Law of Moses is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23). Furthermore, in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Law of God.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge, so they failed to attain righteousness because the pursued the law as though righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith, for Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, and in regard to what we are submitting to obey when we confess that Jesus is Lord, so nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus being the termination of God's law, but just the opposite.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

In Deuteronomy 28:1-14, it lists the blessings of living in obedience to the Law of Moses while verses 15-68 list the curse of living in disobedience to it, so being set free from the curse of the law is being set free to enjoy the blessing of the law.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so Galatians 5:4 should not be interpreted as Paul warning us against following Christ and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so that is what it means to be under grace, and it would again be absurd to interpret that as David wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ example of obedience to the Law of Moses, but with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

 

[Soyeong]

Grace for grace, is the fulness of Christ ( what was received from Moses was not the fulness of God)

The circumcision they received from Moses was not grace, ( it all ended up in death so cant be grace or truth)

Now the grace of Christ and truth of God is the circumcision made without hands, the circumcision of Christ ( by the Spirit gift)

John 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.



Hebrews continues, how Jesus by the grace of God tasted death for every man.

Also the improvement on Moses, how Moses was faithful in all his house, but we are the house of Christ ( all the fulness of God, which is the grace and truth, not contained in the law of Moses, and is only through Christ)




Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

In Exodus 33:13 and Psalms 119:29, they wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to obey His law, which includes circumcision, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so circumcision is part of grace and truth, and is not what leads to death. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed by living in sinless obedience to the Law of Moses, so he is the physical manifestation of the Law of Moses, or in other words, the word of God made flesh, and as the living embodiment of the Law of Moses, he is its fullness.

In Deuteronomy 30:1-8, Moses prophesied a time when they were return from exile, God would circumcise, their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Law of Moses. In Ezekiel 36:26-28, it also speaks about Israel's return from exile and in regard to the New Covenant, where God would take away their hearts of stone, given them hearts of flesh and send His Spirit to lead them in obedience to the Law of Moses. In Jeremiah 31:33, it is also in regard to Israel's return from exile and the New Covenant involves God putting the Law of Moses in our minds and writings it on our hearts. In Colossians 2:11-13, Paul believed that these prophesies were being fulfilled in part through the death and resurrection of Jesus in that in him we also were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which we were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And we, who were dead in our trespasses and the uncircumcision of our flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us our trespasses. In Romans 2:26-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Law of Moses, which is the same way to tell for a Jew, and it also confirms that circumcision is a matter of the heart by the Spirit. On the other hand, disobedience to the the Law of Moses connected with having an uncircumcised heart in Jeremiah 9:25-26 and Acts 7:51-53.

So circumcision has always been about the heart and not just the flesh and Moses did not think that circumcision of the heart was an alternative to circumcision of the flesh, but rather circumcision of the heart has always referred to a heart that is obedience through faith. The Spirit gives us the desire to follow the Law of Moses, which includes circumcision of the flesh, but circumcision of the flesh has no value without the inward transformation accomplished by the Spirit. It's all connected back to Moses and to Christ, who lived in sinless obedience to the Law of Moses, so at no point does having a circumcised heart involve obedience to anything other than the Law of Moses.

 

[Soyeong]

There is no truth in what is decayed, waxed old and vanished..



Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and to deny that it is truth is to deny that the Psalms are Scripture. In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant ha become obsolete in Hebrews 8:13, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it. It was sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, and it remains sinful after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any number of God's covenants being made or becoming obsolete that changes which actions are against God's eternal nature. If God were to make a covenant were it was now in accordance with His righteousness to commit adultery, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, so Hebrews 7:11-12 could not be speaking about a change of the law in regard to its content, such as with it becoming righteous to commit theft or sinful to help the poor, but rather the content is speaking about a change of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change in the law in regard to its administration.

 

[Soyeong]

Previously addressed. . .repeatedly.

Then how about you actually interacting with the argument that I made in my OP?

 

[Christian7777777]

Whenever Jesus quoted Scripture, he preceded it by saying "it is written", but when he was quoting from what the people of his day had heard being said, he preceded it by saying "you have heard that it was said", so he was not making changes to what was written in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2, but rather he was fulfilling the law by correcting what was wrongly being taught about it and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. Case in point:

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

While the Bible certainly teaches us to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), it does not teach us to hate our enemy, so that is what he was correcting. Rather, loving our enemy is in accordance with what was said in Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22. "An eye for an eye" is still a good guideline for judges to help ensure fair sentencing that does not escalate out of proportion to the offense, however, it was a guideline that was only given to and intended to be used by judges, so it was not intended to be used in personal situations to justify revenge into our own hands, but rather in those stations we are told not to repay in kind (Proverbs 20:22, Proverbs 24:29).

You are a little in the dark there, let me enlighten you here.

Exodus does tell how the enemy within Israel ( your neighbour) is to be loved ( because we know it is told and taught to love your neighbour) hey should not be their enemies then..




Exodus 23:4 If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.
5 If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.



We did hear to hate our enemies, even with perfect hatred.

These are those who are the wicked, who are even the enemies of God ( not their neighbour to be loved then)





Psalm 139:19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.





Jesus tells the things that were never told or considered..



Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.




Jesus speaks to Israel who heard in Psalms and in Gods words regarding hating the wicked.

But Jesus brings the whole message of peace, kindness and love ( of God)

As said, they did hear to love their neighbour ( that is seen right there in Exodus which I know very well about)

But now you can consider they did hear in the scriptures and therefore in the law, to hate their enemies ( the wicked)

Jesus reveals though, how God instead sends His rain on the just, and also ion the unjust. ( kindness to the unjust and wicked)


To now begin to do good to your enemies, the unjust, the evil, the unthankful ( the wicked not to hate with perfect hatred any more at all) and even to the ones who hate you, * the wicked, previously to be hated as heard in Psalms) you must love them..




Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

 

[Christian7777777]

In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and to deny that it is truth is to deny that the Psalms are Scripture. In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant ha become obsolete in Hebrews 8:13, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it. It was sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, and it remains sinful after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any number of God's covenants being made or becoming obsolete that changes which actions are against God's eternal nature. If God were to make a covenant were it was now in accordance with His righteousness to commit adultery, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, so Hebrews 7:11-12 could not be speaking about a change of the law in regard to its content, such as with it becoming righteous to commit theft or sinful to help the poor, but rather the content is speaking about a change of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change in the law in regard to its administration.

Truth came by Jesus Christ, truth is a Spirit, truth and the Spirit was given by Christ, along with all understanding of peace, kindness and love that was never contained in the law that says hate your enemy and kills adiulterers.


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[Christian7777777]

So circumcision has always been about the heart and not just the flesh and Moses did not think that circumcision of the heart was an alternative to circumcision of the flesh, but rather circumcision of the heart has always referred to a heart that is obedience through faith. The Spirit gives us the desire to follow the Law of Moses, which includes circumcision of the flesh, but circumcision of the flesh has no value without the inward transformation accomplished by the Spirit. It's all connected back to Moses and to Christ, who lived in sinless obedience to the Law of Moses, so at no point does having a circumcised heart involve obedience to anything other than the Law of Moses.

Circumcision has always been about the heart in the Spirit.

That could not be understood, or done previously, without the Spirit of course.


Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



That is why circumcision and uncircumcision of course are nothing ( praise of men being circumcised in the flesh is NOTHING)..


1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.





On top of that sabbath keeping is nothing, it did nothing for the uncircumcised ( in the heart and Spirit Jews and does nothing for them now.


That is why Christ our sacrifice, keeps our passover for us too..


1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

 

[Christian7777777]

There are many verses that connect faith with obedience to the Law of Moses and breaking faith with disobedience to it, so it is the law of faith, which is also in Christ because he walked in obedience to the Law of Moses, and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6).

The Law of Moses was given as a gift for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13) and obedience to any set of instructions that are claimed to be for our own good is about putting our faith in the one who gave them to rightly guide us, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law of Moses. .

This is your own lifes belief and doctrine you are teaching here, so pay attention please.



Deuteronomy 6 as you quoted, shows to fear God ( Spirit of the fear of the Lord required through the Messiah)

To do all those statutes, for their good so God preserves them alive.

God testified it shall be the righteousness of Israel if they observe to do all of those commandments....



Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

Deuteronomy 6:24 And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.



The Gentiles did attain to the righteousness which is after faith.

Israel did not attain that righteousness as spoken in Deuteronomy 6, why ?

Because observing to do all those commandments is not faith.

This required the kindness of our Saviour to appear, as it was only demonstrated that clearly it was not by works of righteousness we have done ( as Israel could do none in faith)

But saving is demonstrated now, that is is entirely by Gods mercy, the renewing of the Holy Ghost ( to now be enabled to fear God in the Spirit, unlike Israel who had no Spirit given to them)

Justification is grace, it is the hope of eternal life ( the hope of Christ rising is what we are saved by and that is not the law at all and why it is not of faith)...





Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;




Keep your words to few, so you have a chance to understand better.


Israel heard to do all the commandments and it will be their righteousness. ( this appeals to men of pride/stiffnecked) and God made it clear to Israel ( who ignored this clearly) that the promised land was not given to them for their righteousness, for they are a stiffnecked people.


Submit yourself to the righteousness of God, is then only in believing Christ is the end of the law for righteousness.


Any righteousness of the law was only that if you do the law you live.

Read next to see, that doing of that law is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT NOT FAITH, AS YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED IN THE LAW.

BECAUSE THE JUST LIVES BY FAITH.

THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH, YOU LIVE IN THEM, BUT ARE NOT JUSTIFIED AND DIE IN THEM.



Deuteronomy 9:6 Understand therefore, that the Lord thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.


Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.





If anyone says they are under the law in faith, here is the answer to them


They who are of those works of the law of course are cursed, they are under the curse, as when they do not continue in them they are cursed and die.

Christ redeemed us from that curse of sin and death, as it is trying to establish our own righteousness without the righteousness entirely of Christ by faith in Him ( Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe)



Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

[Christian7777777]

In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and to deny that it is truth is to deny that the Psalms are Scripture. In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law, so while the Mosaic Covenant ha become obsolete in Hebrews 8:13, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it. It was sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, and it remains sinful after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any number of God's covenants being made or becoming obsolete that changes which actions are against God's eternal nature. If God were to make a covenant were it was now in accordance with His righteousness to commit adultery, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, so Hebrews 7:11-12 could not be speaking about a change of the law in regard to its content, such as with it becoming righteous to commit theft or sinful to help the poor, but rather the content is speaking about a change of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change in the law in regard to its administration.

The truth is, the law is stoning so many to death.

Burning witches.

Repaying all evil that is done on you, with the same.

It also is seeing the kings, David and Solomon as rich, as palaces and many wives.




Contrast that with Christ and why Israel rejected Him.


Meek lowly on a donkey.

Stopping them of the law stoning.

Forgiving them for crucifying and betraying them.

Having nowhere to lay His head.

He is God and God does not do as men kings to have a thousand wives who corrupt you. But Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of God, how some make themselves a eunuch for the Kingdom of Heavens sake.





All of that is easy to know, the Holy Spirit does not mix with darkness, mans ways ( the ways seen in Israel) are not Gods ways, they are opposing of the distance of heaven to earth ( entirely forever difference).


Jesus taught against Israel for thinking that cleanliness of the outside is what matters, and not that all cleanness is in the conscience and in the heart.

Jesus taught against Israel, how being holy is not in what you don't do on the sabbath, but is in what you do. ( Jesus layed His life down over the Sabbath)

 

[Clare73]

Then how about you actually interacting with the argument that I made in my OP?

I did. . .I explained the NT meaning of the laws in response to what you posted regarding those laws.

Your response is simply to deny the explicitly-stated NT meaning in their context. . .and then try to construct a contra-NT rationale by stringing Scriptures together out of their context to prove your contra-NT rationale, never explicitly dealing with the Scriptures presented.

That's not hermeneutics, that's unbelief.

 

[Soyeong]

I did. . .I explained the NT meaning of the laws in response to what you posted regarding those laws.

In the OP, I made the case that part of the content of God's gift of salvation is the experience of teaching us to obey His law and I cited a number of verses to support my position, however, you have not even referred to a single one of those verses to explain why you think they don't support my position and how you think that they should be correctly understood, so it is not clear to me why you think that you've interacted with the OP. You simply made some argument against obeying what God has commanded that are unrelated to the OP, but I nevertheless interacted with your post by explaining why the verses that you cited do not support your position and how I think that they should be correctly understood, which you were non-responsive to, and you continue to repeat the same points instead of interacting with my response.

Your response is simply to deny the explicitly-stated NT meaning in their context. . .and then try to construct a contra-NT rationale by stringing Scriptures together out of their context to prove your contra-NT rationale, never explicitly dealing with the Scriptures presented.

That's not hermeneutics, that's unbelief.

You have not establish that the explicitly stated NT meaning in their context, so I've only denied the truth of your egregiously erroneous interpretations. You'd rather project onto me things that you are guilty of than to bother establishing the truth of your position.

 

[Clare73]

In the OP, I made the case that part of the content of God's gift of salvation is the experience of teaching us to obey His law and I cited a number of verses to support my position, however, you have not even referred to a single one of those verses to explain why you think they don't support my position and how you think that they should be correctly understood, so it is not clear to me why you think that you've interacted with the OP. You simply made some argument against obeying what God has commanded that are unrelated to the OP, but I nevertheless interacted with your post by explaining why the verses that you cited do not support your position and how I think that they should be correctly understood, which you were non-responsive to, and you continue to repeat the same points instead of interacting with my response.



You have not establish that the explicitly stated NT meaning in their context, so I've only denied the truth of your egregiously erroneous interpretations. You'd rather project onto me things that you are guilty of than to bother establishing the truth of your position.

Okay, let's get down to the heart of the matter.
If we agree on the following, then we are in agreement.

If you do not agree, please show the meaning of the NT texts that I have presented, in agreement with their wording and context. So. . .

The law has been rendered inoperative (Ephesians 2:15) because it has done what it was given to do. . . to reveal sin (Romans 3:20) and to lead to Christ (Galatians 3:24).
Now that faith in Christ has come (the law having done what it was given to do), we are no longer under its supervision (Galatians 3:25).

Rather, we now establish it on its right basis, not as a means of the righteousness of justification which is imputed to us, as it was to Abraham, but as the means of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to that imparted righteousness, leading to holiness (Romans 6:6, Romans 6:9) of the already-justified and saved, that obedience not leading to salvation or justification.

What say ye?

 

[Soyeong]

Okay, let's get down to the heart of the matter.
If we agree on the following, then we are in agreement.

If you do not agree, please show the meaning of the NT texts that I have presented, in agreement with their wording and context. So. . .

The law has been rendered inoperative (Ephesians 2:15) because it has done what it was given to do. . . to reveal sin (Romans 3:20) and to lead to Christ (Galatians 3:24).
Now that faith in Christ has come (the law having done what it was given to do), we are no longer under its supervision (Galatians 3:25).

I notice that once again you have refrained from referring to even a single verse that I cited in the OP.

Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law, such in in Romans 3:27, he contrasted a law of works with the law of faith, and in Romans 7:25, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin, so we should never assume which law he was referring to. So while I agree Ephesians 2:15 refers to a law that has been made inoperative, to make the case for your position, you need to explain why the reasons that I gave are wrong for why it couldn't be referring to the Law of Moses and give positive reasons for why you think it is referring to the Law of Moses.

In the NT, we are obligated to repent from doing what God has revealed to be sin, so if you agree that the Law of Moses was given to reveal to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey it. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Law of Moses teach us how to know Christ, or in other words, it leads us to Christ because it teaches teaches us how to grow in a relationship with him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can reject what he taught and go back to doing what God has revealed to be sin.

Rather, we now establish it on its right basis, not as a means of the righteousness of justification which is imputed to us, as it was to Abraham, but as the means of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to that imparted righteousness, leading to holiness (Romans 6:6, Romans 6:9) of the already-justified and saved, that obedience not leading to salvation or justification.

What say ye?

In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so obedience to the Law of Moses is a requirement for justification, but not in order to earn it. Jesus expressed his righteousness through his actions by living in obedience to the Law of Moses, so that is also the way that we live when his righteousness is imputed to us. If you agree that obedience to the Law of Moses is the means of sanctification, then you should agree that we should obey it. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of Moses (Ezekiel 36:26-27). The Law of Moses is how the Israelites knew what sin is (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4), so Romans 6:6 speaking about no longer being a slave to sin is speaking about being free to be obey the Law of Moses. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21), so the experience of living in obedience to the Law of Moses is inherently part of the gift of Jesus saving us from the experience of living in transgression of the Law of Moses.

 

[Clare73]

Okay, let's get down to the heart of the matter.
If we agree on the following, then we are in agreement.
If you do not agree, please show the meaning of the NT texts that I have presented, in agreement with their wording and context. So. . .

The law has been rendered inoperative (Ephesians 2:15) because it has done what it was given to do. . . to reveal sin (Romans 3:20) and to lead to Christ (Galatians 3:24).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the law having done what it was given to do), we are no longer under its supervision (Galatians 3:25).
Rather, we now establish it on its right basis, not as a means of the righteousness of justification which is imputed to us, as it was to Abraham, but as the means of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to that imparted righteousness, leading to holiness (Romans 6:6, Romans 6:9) of the already-justified and saved, that obedience not leading to salvation or justification.

What say ye?

I notice that once again you have refrained from referring to even a single verse that I cited in the OP.

I am in agreement with the texts you posted in the context of the whole counsel of God.
What I present reconciles them (sets in right relationship to one another), in light of the whole counsel of God, to what you present.
What you present sets them against what I present.

Is there a reason you didn't answer the simple question which summarizes the whole matter. . .or reconcile the Scriptures I present to what you present, because the word of God does not contradict itself?

 

[Soyeong]

What say ye?

I am in agreement with the texts you posted in the context of the whole counsel of God.
What I present reconciles them (sets in right relationship to one another), in light of the whole counsel of God, to what you present.
What you present sets them against what I present.

Is there a reason you didn't answer the simple question which summarizes the whole matter. . .or reconcile the Scriptures I present to what you present, because the word of God does not contradict itself?

Yes, I agree with the verses that you've cited, but disagree with how you have interpreted them, sorry, I thought that this was clear. We both claim to be in agreement with the verses that both of us have posts as part of the whole counsel of God and we both agree that the word of God does not contradict itself. However, my interpretation of the verses that I have cited contradicts your interpretation of the verses that you have cited, which means that if the Bible does not contradict itself, then one or both of our interpretations are false. So I have discussed the verses that you have cited to explain why I think that your interpretation of them is wrong and how I think that they should be interpreted, which is in accordance with the OP and with my interpretation of the verses that I've cited. On the other hand, you have so far refused to refer to even a single one of the verses that I have cited in my OP and have not discussed why you think that my interpretation of them is wrong, and how you think that they should be correctly interpreted. So by you only arguing for a different position than the OP while neglecting to argue that the OP is wrong, then you are not interacting with the OP, and if what you are arguing for allows for both of our positions to be correct, then you are at most arguing that that your position contradicts the verses that I've cited to support my position.

So as its stands, I've shown how the verses that you've presented are in agreement with the verses that I've presented, but you've set the verses that you've presented against the verses that I've presented. The Mosaic Law is part of the whole counsel of God, so by rejecting part of the whole counsel of God you are rejecting the whole counsel of God.