Harris gets some blowback for comparing Jan 6th to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor

[rjs330]

That's a lie. Trump was the most unqualified person to hold office.

Thanks for you opinion.

 

[rjs330]

These kinds of statements are clear indications as to what the democrats are trying to do. Which is make out republicans to be evil attacking people and make them out to be the worst of the worst. By keeping Jan 6 alive they hope to sway voters. It's politically motivated, plain and simple. It wasn't an accident but was on purpose and had a purpose.

 

[disciple Clint]

That's a lie. Trump was the most unqualified person to hold office.

You need to be a little more mature and avoid the term lie, if there was a lie you just told it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

January 6 Capitol Riot Arrests

Jan 6 was a terrorist attack, but it was by white people, so of course there's backlash.

I don't think it has anything to do with "the color of the perpetrators" (I don't think the people who stormed the capitol were exclusively white either, for that matter)

People were rightfully outraged about things like the unibomber and the Oklahoma city bombing, and when Dylan Roof shot up a church.

I think the objection to the comparison is in the fact that the other aforementioned events came with a much more staggering loss of life, and much more sweeping implications.

Comparing:
Axis powers attacking a military base (which would act as our precursor to entering a world war - thousands of lives lost in that attack)
Internationally known terrorist organization orchestrating an event hijacking multiple aircraft, and flying them into building in one of the most populous cities in the country (which also involved thousands of lives lost)

to:

800 rednecks and a guy in a buffalo hat storming into a government building to break some stuff and take disrespectful selfies (with a minimal amount of actual human casualties)

...seems just a tad disrespectful to the people who had to go through the 2 aforementioned events.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think the Jan,6 was more of a betrayal to our country. Since the Trump helped caused it. Luckily Trump supporter, that were involved aren't as strong as they claim.

Not to mention, there weren't that many of them who actually went in.

What was it, like 800 people?

To equate that as a "threat to democracy" would be to suggest that 800 unorganized (and mostly unarmed) people could somehow topple a nation that's a military superpower in a class of its own.

Ultimately, I think it's in poor taste for anyone in a position in power to even remotely compare it to 9/11. There's very events that can even be compared to that.

If any member of congress were to approach a widow/widower from the events of 9/11 who's spouse dealt with this:

and said "yeah, I know exactly you how you feel, I had to hide behind a desk for 10 mins from this guy!

so I know exactly what it's like!"


They'd probably receive a well-deserved middle finger.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Jan 6th, as bad as it was, was a Mostly Peaceful Protest which can't be rightly compared to acts of war that killed thousands.

I'd go as far as saying that the CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle was a more egregious display than Jan 6th.

Taking over a major us city (by force, and with weapons present to keep the cops out) -- including government buildings -- for 2-3 weeks constitutes a bigger disruption IMO.

 

[disciple Clint]

I'd go as far as saying that the CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle was a more egregious display than Jan 6th.

Taking over a major us city (by force, and with weapons present to keep the cops out) -- including government buildings -- for 2-3 weeks constitutes a bigger disruption IMO.

to say nothing of the murder on one person at that event

 

[TLK Valentine]

Not to mention, there weren't that many of them who actually went in.

What was it, like 800 people?

To equate that as a "threat to democracy" would be to suggest that 800 unorganized (and mostly unarmed) people could somehow topple a nation that's a military superpower in a class of its own.

Ultimately, I think it's in poor taste for anyone in a position in power to even remotely compare it to 9/11. There's very events that can even be compared to that.

If any member of congress were to approach a widow/widower from the events of 9/11 who's spouse dealt with this:

and said "yeah, I know exactly you how you feel, I had to hide behind a desk for 10 mins from this guy!

so I know exactly what it's like!"


They'd probably receive a well-deserved middle finger.

Emotional arguments aside, it should be noted that while all three events (Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and 1/6) were political failures, PH and 9/11 were at least tactical successes. They may not have gotten the response they wanted from the US government (indeed, they got the exact opposite), but at least they got the job done. 1/6 was just an embarrassment on every level.

If that level of competence and planning had existed in the Japanese military, they probably would've ended up bombing their own carriers... had it existed in Al-Qaeda, then the planes would've missed the towers completely and crashed into each other.

 

[TLK Valentine]

to say nothing of the murder on one person at that event

If you're referring to the criminal Ashley Babbitt, it should be noted that murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. Lt. Byrd was acting within the scope of the president's own explicit policy concerning domestic unrest, and was found innocent of any wrongdoing.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'd go as far as saying that the CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle was a more egregious display than Jan 6th.

Taking over a major us city (by force, and with weapons present to keep the cops out) -- including government buildings -- for 2-3 weeks constitutes a bigger disruption IMO.

And certainly a more successful one.

 

[disciple Clint]

Emotional arguments aside, it should be noted that while all three events (Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and 1/6) were political failures, PH and 9/11 were at least tactical successes. They may not have gotten the response they wanted from the US government (indeed, they got the exact opposite), but at least they got the job done. 1/6 was just an embarrassment on every level.

If that level of competence and planning had existed in the Japanese military, they probably would've ended up bombing their own carriers... had it existed in Al-Qaeda, then the planes would've missed the towers completely and crashed into each other.

well since we are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[disciple Clint]

If you're referring to the criminal Ashley Babbitt, it should be noted that murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. Lt. Byrd was acting within the scope of the president's own explicit policy concerning domestic unrest, and was found innocent of any wrongdoing.

Lt. Byrd was a poor example of a police officer let alone a Lt., this joker left a loaded gun in a restroom for crying out loud, he should have been terminated at that point but one guess why he was not. AND not that I do not consider that a murder with political cover up but the murder I am taking about was in Seattle.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

And certainly a more successful one.

Correct, and the varying levels of "success" or "non-success" (as you referenced) should show which ideologies people should be more worried about.

This is one of those situations where people can't have it both ways.

One can't label "Far-right Trump-supporting extremism" as the "#1 domestic threat", and in the next breath, suggest that their ineffectiveness, incompetence, and overall silliness is the reason why they didn't "succeed" (at whatever the phony baloney thing is they were trying to accomplish).

Either they're a "major threat" (indicating that they're well-organized, have a cogent plan, and the stick-to-itiveness to accomplish something), or they're a bunch of MAGA-cosplay doofuses with no real plan or organization to speak of.

If "far-left Antifa extremists" can manage to take over six square blocks of Seattle (and they weren't rocket scientists either, there were pictures of them trying to start a co-op garden by putting seeds in 1 inch of topsoil on top of newspaper), and hold it for 3 weeks, and "far right Trumpism advocates" can't manage to get more than 800 people together, and the majority of ones they could get to go in seemed to wander around the building aimlessly and take selfies and steal trinkets...I can say with certainty which faction I'd be more worried about.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't think it has anything to do with "the color of the perpetrators" (I don't think the people who stormed the capitol were exclusively white either, for that matter)

People were rightfully outraged about things like the unibomber and the Oklahoma city bombing, and when Dylan Roof shot up a church.

I think the objection to the comparison is in the fact that the other aforementioned events came with a much more staggering loss of life, and much more sweeping implications.

Comparing:
Axis powers attacking a military base (which would act as our precursor to entering a world war - thousands of lives lost in that attack)
Internationally known terrorist organization orchestrating an event hijacking multiple aircraft, and flying them into building in one of the most populous cities in the country (which also involved thousands of lives lost)

to:

800 rednecks and a guy in a buffalo hat storming into a government building to break some stuff and take disrespectful selfies (with a minimal amount of actual human casualties)

...seems just a tad disrespectful to the people who had to go through the 2 aforementioned events.

Since I posted that, I reflected and made further comparisons. I have concluded that comparing domestic terrorists to foreigners is fairly insulting, especially in America. Thanks for your post.

Since they were trying to kill off government officials during the riot, it was indeed a terrorist event. Just not like pearl harbor or 9/11.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Since I posted that, I reflected and made further comparisons. I have concluded that comparing domestic terrorists to foreigners is fairly insulting, especially in America. Thanks for your post.

Since they were trying to kill off government officials during the riot, it was indeed a terrorist event. Just not like pearl harbor or 9/11.

Effectiveness is key when evaluating how much of a threat someone (or their ideology) poses.

How many government officials did they manage to "knock off" during Jan 6th? I believe the count is still at 0 correct?

There's lots of crazy people out there, their ability to actually be effective is how we judge how much of a "threat" something is. I heard a homeless guy in Cleveland say that he wanted to assassinate someone...there's a reason why we don't take his ramblings as seriously as we would a well-funded and well-organized group with the resources to actually do something.

I'd agree that what the participants on Jan 6th did still constitutes a "terrorist" attack, their intent was to terrorize after all...

But I think it's silly (and insulting) to compare it to 9/11.

As far as "comparing domestic terrorists to foreign ones", that's inconsequential. Their ability to be effective (in whatever nefarious cause they happen to be behind) is how we judge the threat level. There are foreign entities we don't take all that seriously and domestic ones we do, and vice versa.

Depends on the group, their organizational capabilities, and their funding.

 

[TLK Valentine]

well since we are comparing apples and oranges.

I'm sure there's a reason you said that -- beyond being dismissive -- that you simply forgot to mention.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Lt. Byrd was a poor example of a police officer let alone a Lt., this joker left a loaded gun in a restroom for crying out loud, he should have been terminated at that point but one guess why he was not.

A shortage of qualified police officers in the Metro D.C. area?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Correct, and the varying levels of "success" or "non-success" (as you referenced) should show which ideologies people should be more worried about.

I agree to a point -- competent insurrectionists should be taken far more seriously than morons... but that's more an issue for the government and military (in the case of foreign threats) and law enforcement (in the case of domestic ones).

Average citizens such as you or I only need concern ourselves if we should find ourselves in the thick of an attempted insurrection -- and under those circumstances, competence is irrelevant. You can get just as dead from a rock thrown by a moron as you can from one thrown by a tactical genius.

One can't label "Far-right Trump-supporting extremism" as the "#1 domestic threat", and in the next breath, suggest that their ineffectiveness, incompetence, and overall silliness is the reason why they didn't "succeed" (at whatever the phony baloney thing is they were trying to accomplish).

Sure you can -- if you consider the possibility that the "far-right Trump-supporting extremists" are capable of learning from their past mistakes.

However, given the demonstrated mental capacity of the extremists in question, I'll concede that they're about as effective as a glass hammer and as intimidating as the Great Wall of Lilliput.

... but again, only in terms of how our government deals with them -- speaking as a private citizen, I certainly don't want them congregating in my neighborhood; you never know what's going to make them collectively pop their cork...

...well, we all know who will set them off, but not necessarily what'll initially set him off.

Either they're a "major threat" (indicating that they're well-organized, have a cogent plan, and the stick-to-itiveness to accomplish something), or they're a bunch of MAGA-cosplay doofuses with no real plan or organization to speak of.

Agreed -- they're a pretty mindless force, but so is a hurricane, and our local, state, and federal governments plan for those very seriously when one seems likely to blow into town.

If "far-left Antifa extremists" can manage to take over six square blocks of Seattle (and they weren't rocket scientists either, there were pictures of them trying to start a co-op garden by putting seeds in 1 inch of topsoil on top of newspaper), and hold it for 3 weeks, and "far right Trumpism advocates" can't manage to get more than 800 people together, and the majority of ones they could get to go in seemed to wander around the building aimlessly and take selfies and steal trinkets...I can say with certainty which faction I'd be more worried about.

True, but consider this analogy: What would you rather be sitting next to: a block of C4, or a bottle of pure nitroglycerin?

You can stomp on the C4, set it on fire, even shoot it with a high-powered rifle, and you'll be perfectly safe (The Mythbusters confirmed that). The nitroglycerin, OTOH, might explode in your face if you so much as sneeze on it.

C4 is far more powerful, but also far more stable. Who knows what'll set off the nitro?

 

[Tigger45]

One good thing that has come about because of the failed coup attempt at the capital on 1/6, is that now the capital police can call on the national guard themselves making it particularly valuable to thwart the actions and dereliction of duty of a rouge exiting president who incites his followers to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power of the presidential office.

 

[rjs330]

Since I posted that, I reflected and made further comparisons. I have concluded that comparing domestic terrorists to foreigners is fairly insulting, especially in America. Thanks for your post.

Since they were trying to kill off government officials during the riot, it was indeed a terrorist event. Just not like pearl harbor or 9/11.

What were they going to kill them with? I don't think any of them were armed.