Jesus became the Word (LOGOS) John 1:1

[Daniel Marsh]

I think John used logos to get others to keep reading.

 

[Clare73]

I think John used logos to get others to keep reading.

That would work for me!

 

[EarlDumarest]

Then he wasn't WITH God?

 

[Clare73]

Then he wasn't WITH God?

What do you mean, and to whom were you responding?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Then he wasn't WITH God?

Montgomy's NT and Thayer's Lexicon has "face to face" for the word with.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Eternal Sonship of Christ: A Timely Defense of this
George W. Zeller, ‎Renald E. Showers · 2008
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/sonship/sonshbk.pdf

The case for eternal Sonship by D.A. Carson

The Eternal Generation of the Son: Maintaining Orthodoxy in ...books.google.com › books
Kevin Giles · 2012

The Son of His Love: The Eternal Sonshipbooks.google.com › books
William J. Hocking · 2015

"Nicene Creed (325 A.D.) which states: "We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made." What is the doctrine of eternal Sonship and is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org

 

[EarlDumarest]

What do you mean, and to whom were you responding?

John 1 refers to the word being God ONCE.
It refers to the word being WITH God TWICE.

What the show is obvious, if you aren't chained to church teaching...

 

[EarlDumarest]

Montgomy's NT and Thayer's Lexicon has "face to face" for the word with.

So- he was "face to face" with God, not face to face with the Trinity....

 

[Clare73]

John 1 refers to the word being God ONCE.
It refers to the word being WITH God TWICE.

What the show is obvious, if you aren't chained to church teaching...

Please explain, it's not obvious to me.

Thanks.

 

[EarlDumarest]

Please explain, it's not obvious to me.
Thanks.

Many were referred to a God (caps don't exist in Heb/Grk).
Angels, Moses, and the Judges of Israel were.
Did that mean they joined the 'Godhood'?

 

[Clare73]

Many were referred to a God (caps don't exist in Heb/Grk).
Angels, Moses, and the Judges of Israel were.
Did that mean they joined the 'Godhood'?

None refer to them as Logos (John 1:1).

Logos in Greek philosophy being the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe.

What does that have to do with referring to the Word being WITH God TWICE?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Then he wasn't WITH God?

En arkhêi ên ho lógos, kaì ho lógos ên pròs tòn theón, kaì theòs ên ho lógos.
pròs is translated as with. However, pros has a subtext of "movement towards". So one way to translate it would be:

In beginning, was the Logos, and the Logos was with moving towards the God, and God was the Logos.

 

[EarlDumarest]

None refer to them as Logos (John 1:1).

Logos in Greek philosophy being the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe.

I did not say Logos but said GOD!

 

[EarlDumarest]

En arkhêi ên ho lógos, kaì ho lógos ên pròs tòn theón, kaì theòs ên ho lógos.
pròs is translated as with. However, pros has a subtext of "movement towards". So one way to translate it would be:

In beginning, was the Logos, and the Logos was with moving towards the God, and God was the Logos.

Then the logos 'was moving towards' HIMSELF?

 

[Clare73]

I did not say Logos but said GOD!

You gotta' do better than that, pal.

If "god" doesn't mean the First Cause, the Great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe
in John 1:1, Logos does,
and Jesus is called the Logos who is God, making the "god" of John 1:1 the First Cause, the Great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe. . .angels, Moses and the Judges of Israel not-with-standing.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Jesus is the Eternal Logos or Word (Second person of the Godhead or the Trinity) (John 1:1) (1 John 5:7 KJV). Jesus's Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge) was suppressed.

The following verses talks about the glory that Jesus once shared with God the Father before the world came into existence.

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (John 17:5).

"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14).

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Corinthians 4:6).​

Jesus was able to learn because His Omniscience was suppressed so as to be like a man.

"Although He was a Son [who had never been disobedient to the Father], He learned [active, special] obedience through what He suffered." (Hebrews 5:8) (AMP).​

Jesus was being made perfect in obedience (through suffering) as a man. He was a man in the sense that he had a flesh and blood body of a man and He was limited in knowledge because His Omniscience in being God was suppressed. So Jesus did not lose His Omniscience. He always had it, but He merely suppressed it.

But we cannot say with absolute certainty that He suppressed it because that is not really given us. He was man...God with us, however...but, could not one also surmise that His heavenly wisdom was given Him from the Father.
I guess I'm not certain what you are meaning by "He suppressed" His omniscience. John 16:30 shows the Father in Christ. Please comment.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Did Jesus work on the seventh day? He was accused of working on the seventh day. The Law forbids working on the seventh day. For this reason the chief priests were trying to kill him.

In John 5:1-16 Jesus healed a paralytic by the Pool of Bethesda. This happened on the Sabbath.

John 5:16 (NIV) So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

He performed spiritual work...the teachers of the Law were not spiritual enough to glean from the Law that spiritual work is for the Sabbath.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But we cannot say with absolute certainty that He suppressed it because that is not really given us. He was man...God with us, however...but, could not one also surmise that His heavenly wisdom was given Him from the Father.
I guess I'm not certain what you are meaning by "He suppressed" His omniscience. John 16:30 shows the Father in Christ. Please comment.

Luke 2:52 says, “And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.”

Jesus increased in wisdom. Wisdom is a form of knowledge. How can Jesus increase in knowledge if He already has all knowledge? The only solution it the one that I presented with Scripture (that explains it).

As for John 16:30: Well, I believe this verse shows how Christ would have known all things based on the fact that He has access to the Father. I believe after Christ’s resurrection, there would have been no more point for Christ to suppress His Omniscience as God. For Christ would have already fulfilled His mission in being our substitute in dying for our sins, and in conquering death (the penalty of sin).

 

[GodLovesCats]

Then he wasn't WITH God?

Obviously Jesus was with God because he is God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word is God.

Did I get that right?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then he wasn't WITH God?

It says that the Word was God, and the Word was with God.
Both are true. Jesus is God, and the Father is God.
Jesus (Who is God or the Word) was WITH God the Father.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1).

John 1:14 says, “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,”

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16).

John 6:38
“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”

1 John 5:7 KJB
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”