Genesis is Barely Literal

[NBB]

'For centuries' - prove it lol.
They've no idea of stellar or even planetary distances. It all moves as a 'set piece' apart from the planets, the wandering stars. It's like saying the earth is a globe because we have a globe map. No, everything is traditionally charted on plane table methods, then projected on to a 3D sphere by various mathematical algorithms. Doesn't make it true. And as I said, go see if your software shows Mercury visible at night, right there's a falsifying observation.

I downloaded one of those in the 90' first and it was already old, it didn't connect to internet or something, i'm pretty sure if i fire it up today it would show me the positions of planets and stars accurately still, like it did when i was observing the sky with some made up platform i made and binoculars. Really hundreds of astronomy entushiasts and programmers aren't consipring to hide the truth from you or something don't worry when making those softwares, they are independant people who likes the sky and astronomy.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I downloaded one of those in the 90' first and it was already old, it didn't connect to internet or something, i'm pretty sure if i fire it up today it would show me the positions of planets and stars accurately still, like it did when i was observing the sky with some made up platform i made and binoculars. Really hundreds of astronomy entushiasts and programmers aren't consipring to hide the truth from you or something don't worry when making those softwares, they are independant people who likes the sky and astronomy.

You can make an accurate simulation based on a geocentric spherical earth or a flat earth model. The point is, this software of yours is not accurate, it just 'saving the appearances'.

Who said these idiots were conspiring? Is every Darwinist evolutionist a conspirator? No, they're just deceived because they think the 'model' that shows development from a single cell into a hominid is real.

 

[NBB]

You can make an accurate simulation based on a geocentric spherical earth or a flat earth model. The point is, this software of yours is not accurate, it just 'saving the appearances'.

Who said these idiots were conspiring? Is every Darwinist evolutionist a conspirator? No, they're just deceived because they think the 'model' that shows development from a single cell into a hominid is real.

Yeah well, the software is good, mimics reality, you don't need to believe it if you don't want.... too bad, evolution has no model like this or software simulation or anything like that.

 

[d taylor]

Yeah well, the software is good, mimics reality, you don't need to believe it if you don't want.... too bad, evolution has no model like this or software simulation or anything like that.

If the secular governments and scientific institutions of the world admitted, to a flat stationary earth with the sun, moon and stars moving over this earth.

Would that draw people away from God and The Bible.

 

[Oseas]

I never said Jesus didnt incarnate you completely misconstrued what I said, Jesus came incarnate from MARY, he wasnt always incarnate before that what the heck are you talking about.

I literally never said he didnt BECOME incarnate, Jesus was made flesh he wasnt always flesh you disprove yourself trying to disprove me.

OK, thanks by your reply. My message was based in your post #88 where you said: "Jesus wasnt incarnate he was the one acting with the Father in Genesis 1 as his word".

Now you clarified on your belief. As you know, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:v.8 -- What prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, the invisible GOD. Great mystery. JESUS left very clear, saying: Matt. 11:v.27 - ... no MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

 

[NBB]

If the secular governments and scientific institutions of the world admitted, to a flat stationary earth with the sun, moon and stars moving over this earth.

Would that draw people away from God and The Bible.

Grab the software and see for yourself, you put your location in there and see the screen planets etc are going to be where the software tellls they are for days/months/centuries/decades/millenias, you can move to any place in the world, and supopse you ask a friend over the internet to watch the sky with the software, its going to be accurate in any part of the world, you then can 'fly' apart from earth with it and see the solar system, this is a simulation, made by even 'enthusiasts' of astronomy, not the goverment or something, they are not conspiring to fool people away from God, this gets ridiculous.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I downloaded one of those in the 90' first and it was already old, it didn't connect to internet or something, i'm pretty sure if i fire it up today it would show me the positions of planets and stars accurately still, like it did when i was observing the sky with some made up platform i made and binoculars. Really hundreds of astronomy entushiasts and programmers aren't consipring to hide the truth from you or something don't worry when making those softwares, they are independant people who likes the sky and astronomy.

So that's your hundreds of years, is it, the 90s? Sadly, using a simulation is not 'doing science'. It's just a model. And as I've said, that one's easily falisfied (I suspect) based on the nocturnal observation of Mercury.

Look up the Michelson-Morley experiment, the Sagnac experiment and Airey's Failure. Look at the dozens of declassified military air force and ballistics white papers that all rely on a 'flat nonrotating earth'. Get a telescope and from the water's edge you'll consistently see distant objects that should be obscured by many feet of curvature. The list goes on.

It's nothing short of laughable to hold to the belief that you're standing on a hi-velocity spinning, rotating, translating, juddering space waterball, with precisely zero hard evidence or experience of motion/ curvature - when it should be easy to obtain.

And professing themselves wise, they became fools. Just accept the word of God or take the path of scientism, can't eat from both tables.

 

[sandman]

OK, who owns the cattle that aren't on God's 1000 hills?

The OP was referring to Genesis..... this is in Psalms….and you know as well as I that figures of speech are used throughout the Word of God including idiom, metaphors, and simile’s…. to express heighten or illustrate a particular point.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Really? Then what exactly is on?

Read it its about whether it is literal or not.

Apart from your obvious denial of scripture

ok...

 

[OnePath]

Why is a literal interpretation of Gen 1 and 2 so offensive to so many? Could it be that they're married to the world, to the pseudosciences of modern cosmology and evolutionary biology?

What if the earth is flat, stationary and enclosed? What if it's less than 10,000 years old? Why not just accept the plain meaning of the text and laugh in derision at the world and its vain imaginings? It's very liberating, I can assure you.

Boggles the mind, doesn't it? Imagine being someone so arrogant that they can actually sit there and say, "God told us he did something this way, but I know better than He does." This is the test that God gave to Job in Job 38-40 where He points out the inadequacy of men to fully understand what God, Himself, has accomplished. Job learned to shut his mouth, but these people continue to argue in foolishness.

 

[eleos1954]

You are so confusing.

How about we settle on a definition for the word, 'law', so that that we are reading from the same book.

For example, you said, 'the law leads us to Christ.'

I read that as the sacrificial law, priesthood law, moral law, civil law, health law, food law, etc. The whole law and the prophets!

In other words, Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, the great high priest, perfectly moral, etc.

You seem to alternate between the ten and the law.

How do you define the word 'law'?

There are eternal laws (the 10 - spoken/written by God) and then there were the laws of Moses ... the Law (the 10) are in heaven as well .... ie lucifer and the 1/3 sinned (what is sin? - transgression of the Law.

His word states the law is written on the heart .... all hearts. All will be judged by the law ... has to be .... else how can God judge rightly?

Does God want us to sin? No ... What is sin? Transgression of the Law. How does one even know what sin is? Through the law.

The wages of sin is death (transgression of the law) was paid through the blood of Jesus and those who believe (for all times) will not be condemned by it .... and that is the gospel.

When one accepts Jesus, He sends the Holy Spirit to help us overcome sin .... it is a earthly life experience .... His Spirit helps us to overcome the Law (10) ... it is HIS work in the believer... not ours. We will never be perfect (until His return), but by obedience to the Law it helps us live a better life while we are here on earth. We don't endeavor to keep the law to be saved .... we do so because we are saved and Him working in us.

So, indeed there was law nailed to the cross and they are those not contained in the 10 (and later detailed in the life of Christ while on earth).

Deuteronomy 31:26
New International Version
“Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.

and what do we see in heaven?

Revelation 11:19

19Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

The law (10) are in the sanctuary in heaven inside the ark (tablets of stone) .... currently under the mercy seat ... there will come a day when the lid of the mercy seat will be opened and the mercy of God is no longer available and the fullness of God's wrath will be released ... with great plaques and destruction.

It's really not confusing .... it does become confusing when one states there is no law at all. That is just utterly impossible (ie Him judging rightly). There can not be judgement without law.

The whole law and the prophets!

no ... and He clearly states otherwise ....

Matthew 5:17

Contemporary English Version
Don't suppose I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning (and He did) AMEN! He also kept the law fully. Everything is fulfilled (filled fully) in HIM.

 

[eleos1954]

The law lead the Jews to Christ. But the Gentiles did not have the law, they did not know of YHWH.
The Gentiles were strangers to the law and the prophets.

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

How can the law which the Gentiles did not know then lead them to Christ?

Because the law is written in the heart .... and all are conscious of it.

Romans 2:14

13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. 14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them…

 

[eleos1954]

If we are not under the ceremonial law. Then it follows that we can eat meat with the blood in it. Which would be a violation of Acts 15.

Acts 15:20
But that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

You need to explain yourself.

It is not a sin to eat clean meat.

God gave Noah (and all mankind) a new freedom once he got off the ark: everything that lives and moves is now allowed to be our food (Genesis 9:3). It is made perfectly clear that God has made it acceptable to eat an animal from that point on. However, just because it is spiritually permissible, doesn't mean it is physically beneficial.

So, if it was a sin against God to eat meat up until this point, it is now no longer a sin. I found it interesting that God added verse four as an exception: we can eat meat, but only as long as it's lifeblood is not in it (Genesis 9:4). Does this mean we shouldn't eat raw meat? Or animals who are still alive?

Either way, it is very clear here that God Himself says that it is NOT a sin against Him to eat animals or animal products. But He also doesn't say that it is a necessity to following Him. It is neither condemned nor commanded. It is a choice each person can make for themselves. But the Spirit works individually in each person and will convict you if He so pleases. If you feel the Spirit prompting you to refrain from consuming animal products, but you choose to eat them anyway, then you are in fact sinning against God.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

I believe that like 60% of Genesis isn't literal like the 7 days arent literal for creation and a universal flood didn't happen but at a specific place which all creation was present at. I also believe that Adam and Eve were infact humans but they weren't flat out homosapiens right of the back they probably was one of the evolve creatures in Richard Dawkins theory(Not saying they wasnt but the possibility of that is almost 0-1) I just dont believe Adam and eve were like us in anyway when they first was created because fossils ¨prove¨ we evolved but I not saying evolution is true just saying its a possibility of the sort but I do believe the genealogy thats a fact people may respond if they disagree but I myself just dont see Genesis as Literal.

I'm afraid that your interpretation has been influenced too much by our secular culture instead of interpreting Genesis and other Old Testament events in the light of the rest of Scripture. For example, the literal existence of Adam, Noah and the flood, Sodom's destruction, Lot's wife's death, Jonah's being swallowed by a fish, and many other events as historical has been confirmed by the New Testament. Your concordance will show you.

 

[Jipsah]

Once again your talking about things no one is talking about.

You're the one who started the 2nd Law thread

 

[Jipsah]

It is not a sin to eat clean meat.

It's not a sin to eat any meat. "Arise, Peter, kill and eat." And yeah, that's what it really means.

 

[eleos1954]

It's not a sin to eat any meat. "Arise, Peter, kill and eat." And yeah, that's what it really means.

It's a health message not a sin message ..... that does not mean that it is best we eat all animals and all of them are equally good for us .... and the Lord gave us guidance with that and we can follow that guidance .... or not ... each chooses ... health message not sin message.

What one eats is not to be a stumbling point.

Romans 14:20-21

Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats.

It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.

 

[d taylor]

Grab the software and see for yourself, you put your location in there and see the screen planets etc are going to be where the software tellls they are for days/months/centuries/decades/millenias, you can move to any place in the world, and supopse you ask a friend over the internet to watch the sky with the software, its going to be accurate in any part of the world, you then can 'fly' apart from earth with it and see the solar system, this is a simulation, made by even 'enthusiasts' of astronomy, not the goverment or something, they are not conspiring to fool people away from God, this gets ridiculous.

No kidding the sun moon and stars are predictable in their movements. Exactly what The Bible states and that is long before any silly computer software program.

Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

Kind of hard to be used for, signs and seasons, and for days and years. If these light are not in a constant predictable working order.

 

[Jipsah]

I do, i see most every day/night (when the raqia is clear and not cloudy) God"s creation working just like it is stated in The Bible.

In other words, you aren't looking. which was obvious anyway. God's creation is magnificent, beautiful and elegant, a marvel of design so far and away above and beyond the silly and simplistic imaginings of Genesis "literalists" that it beggars the imagination.

The three lights, God created (two great lights and the stars) moving over the earth in the raqia, where God placed them.

Sad that uyou're unwilling to look up and see the the unfathomable wonders of God's actual creation rather than the Walmart version you envision.

 

[Jipsah]

Why is a literal interpretation of Gen 1 and 2 so offensive to so many?

Probably because it's literally the equivalent to an adult's description of something complex to a child. True as far as it goes, but doesn't go very far. Saying the sun is a light in the sky is true, but tells you nothing of the nature or either the sun nor the sky.

Could it be that they're married to the world, to the pseudosciences of modern cosmology and evolutionary biology?

More likely that we've discovered that the simplistic descriptions of God's creation fail utterly to convey the impossible magnitude of what God has actually done. It's like compring a cup of tea to the Pacific Ocean, only moreso.

What if the earth is flat, stationary and enclosed?

What if it sits on the back or a large turtle?

What if it's less than 10,000 years old? Why not just accept the plain meaning of the text and laugh in derision at the world and its vain imaginings? It's very liberating, I can assure you.

Well, it'll certainly liberate you from the chore of ever having to navigate anything anywhere.