Genesis is Barely Literal

[klutedavid]

well .... it's in the context of servants .... God did not condone slavery, but knew it would happen .... and yes servants were considered property of a man .... like it or not.

You shall not steal.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

I cannot see the connection between kidnapping and slavery?

You may kidnap a child to make money via a ransom.

That definitely is not slavery.

 

[eleos1954]

We have an spiritual soul, God knew what the bodies of man would be like, because they are exactly what he planned them to be, body and soul work together, this fact that we have a soul, alone defeats evolution theory. Evolutionists say God is not needed for evolution to work its thing and 'create' people, however having a soul means every person was made by God, and our bodies that work with it too if you follow that truth.

We are a soul .... a soul is a person .... a living being.

Spirit and God: Because we are dynamic rational, volitional, and emotional beings, we are able to communicate with God and He with us. Paul prays, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit” (Phil. 4:23, NIV; 2 Tim. 4:22). This dimension of our nature is sensitive and responsive to the Lord (Matt. 5:3; Luke 1:47). God can excite our center of action, the will, to accomplish a particular purpose (Jer. 51:11). The spirit of those who are united by faith to Jesus is once more alive (Rom. 8:10; 1 Cor. 6:17).

The reference is not to a self-onscious entity dwelling in a body but to the totality of the person as a psycho-religious-physical individual with whom God can interact, and who can answer back to God in love and faith from his or her very inner being.

 

[NBB]

We are a soul .... a soul is a person .... a living being.

Spirit and God: Because we are dynamic rational, volitional, and emotional beings, we are able to communicate with God and He with us. Paul prays, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit” (Phil. 4:23, NIV; 2 Tim. 4:22). This dimension of our nature is sensitive and responsive to the Lord (Matt. 5:3; Luke 1:47). God can excite our center of action, the will, to accomplish a particular purpose (Jer. 51:11). The spirit of those who are united by faith to Jesus is once more alive (Rom. 8:10; 1 Cor. 6:17).

The reference is not to a self-onscious entity dwelling in a body but to the totality of the person as a psycho-religious-physical individual with whom God can interact, and who can answer back to God in love and faith from his or her very inner being.

I think i didn't say anything against what you posted. But thanks.
Except a soul is the inner spiritual thing that contains our mind, heart (spiritual), and emotions etc.
The soul is not the body.

 

[eleos1954]

I do not see that rape and adultery are the same thing, but each to his own.

Are all the following deeds of the flesh listed below. Are these deeds all contained in the ten commandments?

Galatians 5:18-21
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

No .... Jesus gave us the details of the basic 10.

Isaiah 42:21

21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Matthew 22

37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

I do not see that rape and adultery are the same thing, but each to his own.

so how do you see it?

 

[eleos1954]

I think i didn't say anything against what you posted. But thanks.
Except a soul is the inner spiritual thing that contains our mind, heart (spiritual), and emotions etc.
The soul is not the body.

k ... some teach we have a immortal soul of some kind that is independent of our physical being .... there's nothing immortal about us .... we receive that gift when Jesus returns ... so if that's your take then we agree .... if not then we don't ;o)

 

[Oseas]

Jesus wasnt incarnate he was the one acting with the Father in Genesis 1 as his word.

I work with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand?

John 1:v.1 to 3 and 9 to 14 - BELIEVE IN THE WORD OF GOD. The Word is Truth, Light and Life.
1 In the beginning-in JESUS-was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in JESUS (the beginning) with God.

3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[NBB]

k ... some teach we have a immortal soul of some kind that is independent of our physical being .... there's nothing immortal about us .... we receive that gift when Jesus returns ... so if that's your take then we agree .... if not then we don't ;o)

Every person is immortal, that doesn't mean our body is not going to die, but we have something inside that unless God makes it dissapear, (he won't supposedly) it will exist forever.

 

[eleos1954]

Every person is immortal, that doesn't mean our body is not going to die, but we have something inside that unless God makes it dissapear, (he won't supposedly) it will exist forever.

can't be ....

Matthew 22
AMP
He (God) alone possesses immortality [absolute exemption from death] and lives in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal power and dominion! Amen.

Earthly death is described in His Word is a dormant sleep ... those in the 1st resurrection will receive everlasting life ..... those in the 2nd resurrection will not.
All sleep in the grave until they are resurrected.

Genesis 2:7

7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

His breath is what made him a living soul – a living creature. When we die, we stop breathing and we rest. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the soul is separate from the body.

A soul is a living creature (see Genesis 2:7 above). A soul is the combination of a body plus the breath of life. The soul cannot exist without the body or the breath.

“…the body apart from the spirit is dead” (James 2:26, ESV).

“as long as my breath is in me, and the spirit (breath) of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3, ESV).

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 John 3:2

English Standard Version
Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears (not before) we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

1 Corinthians 15

The Order of Resurrection

20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

 

[NBB]

can't be ....

Matthew 22
AMP
He (God) alone possesses immortality [absolute exemption from death] and lives in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal power and dominion! Amen.

Earthly death is described in His Word is a dormant sleep ... those in the 1st resurrection will receive everlasting life ..... those in the 2nd resurrection will not.
All sleep in the grave until they are resurrected.

Genesis 2:7

7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

His breath is what made him a living soul – a living creature. When we die, we stop breathing and we rest. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the soul is separate from the body.

A soul is a living creature (see Genesis 2:7 above). A soul is the combination of a body plus the breath of life. The soul cannot exist without the body or the breath.

“…the body apart from the spirit is dead” (James 2:26, ESV).

“as long as my breath is in me, and the spirit (breath) of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3, ESV).

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 John 3:2

English Standard Version
Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears (not before) we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

1 Corinthians 15

The Order of Resurrection

20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

Asleep or not, our soul is going somewhere, "and the spirit comes back to God who gave it" Ecclesiastes 12:7
And this:
8 As Rachel’s soul was leaving, for she died, she gave him the name Benoni. But his father gave him the name Benjamin. 19 So Rachel died, and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem). 20 Jacob set up a stone on her grave. And that is the stone of Rachel’s grave to this day.

 

[eleos1954]

Asleep or not, our soul is going somewhere, "and the spirit comes back to God who gave it" Ecclesiastes 12:7
And this:
8 As Rachel’s soul was leaving, for she died, she gave him the name Benoni. But his father gave him the name Benjamin. 19 So Rachel died, and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem). 20 Jacob set up a stone on her grave. And that is the stone of Rachel’s grave to this day.

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Genesis 2:7

When God finished forming Adam on the sixth day, Adam was not yet alive. But then God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils and he became a living soul.

Notice what the text says and what it does not say. Does it say that Adam received a soul? No. What does it say? He became a living soul.

We notice that at creation, dust plus the breath of life produced a living creature or a soul. We read in By clear implication, then, the soul ceases to exist at death, as death is creation in reverse. Furthermore, we read in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10 that there is no consciousness, knowledge, emotions, or work after death.

Rachel was dieing .... when she passed the breath of God returned to Him. She sleeps in the grave until Jesus returns.

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (not before).

John 5:29
English Standard Version

28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Psalm 115:17
English Standard Version
The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.

 

[d taylor]

Can be interpreted in a variety of ways if you want I have a thread up proving a Universal flood didnt occur. World Flood???

I am always interested in seeing accounts given in The Bible of events that have happened, to be proven that they did not occur.
Of course you will only use The Bible to do this.

As scripture interprets scripture, and clarifies and brings to light, areas of scripture that are more difficult to understand.

So by all means, show these verses in The bible that disprove the flood.

 

[coffee4u]

I believe that like 60% of Genesis isn't literal like the 7 days arent literal for creation and a universal flood didn't happen but at a specific place which all creation was present at. I also believe that Adam and Eve were infact humans but they weren't flat out homosapiens right of the back they probably was one of the evolve creatures in Richard Dawkins theory(Not saying they wasnt but the possibility of that is almost 0-1) I just dont believe Adam and eve were like us in anyway when they first was created because fossils ¨prove¨ we evolved but I not saying evolution is true just saying its a possibility of the sort but I do believe the genealogy thats a fact people may respond if they disagree but I myself just dont see Genesis as Literal.

... I will be back when I have time.

But yes do show us all the scriptural backup you are using to disprove 6 day creation and the global flood.

 

[NBB]

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Genesis 2:7

When God finished forming Adam on the sixth day, Adam was not yet alive. But then God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils and he became a living soul.

Notice what the text says and what it does not say. Does it say that Adam received a soul? No. What does it say? He became a living soul.

We notice that at creation, dust plus the breath of life produced a living creature or a soul. We read in By clear implication, then, the soul ceases to exist at death, as death is creation in reverse. Furthermore, we read in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10 that there is no consciousness, knowledge, emotions, or work after death.

Rachel was dieing .... when she passed the breath of God returned to Him. She sleeps in the grave until Jesus returns.

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (not before).

John 5:29
English Standard Version

28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Psalm 115:17
English Standard Version
The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.

I have even discerned my own soul, its spiritual and its there, and almost everyone agrees on this, you are coming from Ellen white i guess, the spirit is not our soul, we have a heart (spiritual) the center of our person, a spiritual mind and feelings, all these are part of the soul, which is immortal.

The bible says our bodies will get resurrected not our souls.

 

[coffee4u]

I have even discerned my own soul, its spiritual and its there, and almost everyone agrees on this, you are coming from Ellen white i guess, the spirit is not our soul, we have a heart (spiritual) the center of our person, a spiritual mind and feelings, all these are part of the soul, which is immortal.

The bible says our bodies will get resurrected not our souls.

Indeed.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

[klutedavid]

No .... Jesus gave us the details of the basic 10.

Isaiah 42:21

21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

The verse above does not mention the ten commandments alone.

'he will magnify the law'

I read that as the entire law and the prophets.

Matthew 22
37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”



so how do you see it?

Your quoting ceremonial law now, these two commandments are not listed in Exodus 20.

I defer to the two greatest commandments that are above the commandments in the law.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Loving others as you love yourself was the Old Testament type. The new commandment that Jesus gave was the fulfillment of that type. Now you will love unconditionally and not how you love yourself.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

If your interpretation does not list these two commandments (1 John 3:23-24). As the two greatest commandments, then you have missed the boat. You are indeed under the law and that is your mistake.

 

[eleos1954]

I have even discerned my own soul, its spiritual and its there, and almost everyone agrees on this, you are coming from Ellen white i guess, the spirit is not our soul, we have a heart (spiritual) the center of our person, a spiritual mind and feelings, all these are part of the soul, which is immortal.

The bible says our bodies will get resurrected not our souls.

no .... it's what the bible teaches ..... only God is immortal .... humans are mortal

yes, we have heart, mind, feelings .... they perish when die ...

Those in Christ never die .... they sleep a dormant sleep and will be resurrected Lazeras is dead .... I go to wake him up ... so says Jesus.

Lazaras .... at death did his "immortal soul" go somewhere when He died? If so where did it go? If so who or how did it "get stuffed" back into him?

The traditional concept of an immaterial and immortal soul distinct from the body was not found in Judaism before the Babylonian exile,but developed as a result of interaction with Persian and Hellenistic philosophies.

Soul in the Bible - Wikipedia

Many modern theologians reject the view that the Bible teaches the doctrine of the immortal soul,and Hebblethwaite claims the doctrine is "not popular amongst Christian theologians or among Christian philosophers today" (not just Ellen White).

and knowledge will increase and it is increasing.

 

[eleos1954]

The verse above does not mention the ten commandments alone.

'he will magnify the law'

I read that as the entire law and the prophets.Your quoting ceremonial law now, these two commandments are not listed in Exodus 20.

I defer to the two greatest commandments that are above the commandments in the law.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Loving others as you love yourself was the Old Testament type. The new commandment that Jesus gave was the fulfillment of that type. Now you will love unconditionally and not how you love yourself.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

If your interpretation does not list these two commandments (1 John 3:23-24). As the two greatest commandments, then you have missed the boat. You are indeed under the law and that is your mistake.

The law leads us to Christ .... and after we receive Him He leads us back to the law and
helps us overcome sin (transgression of the law)

The 10 are included in the two .... the 10 are summed up in the 10. The 10 are commandments of Love.

There is nothing wrong with God laws .... there is something wrong with us, yes I am under the law (because I have sinned) .... but will not be condemned by it ... because of Jesus.

Romans 7

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me.24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

I'm not missing any boats .... I'm in the boat with Jesus.

 

[Oseas]

Jesus wasnt incarnate he was the one acting with the Father in Genesis 1 as his word.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every SPIRIT that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the FLESH is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the WORLD-1 JOHN 4:v.1-3 .

John 16:v.7-11
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come,
he will reprove the world of sin,
and of righteousness,
and of Judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of Judgment, because the prince of this WORLD is Judged.

 

[klutedavid]

The law leads us to Christ .... and after we receive Him He leads us back to the law and
helps us overcome sin (transgression of the law)

You are so confusing.

How about we settle on a definition for the word, 'law', so that that we are reading from the same book.

For example, you said, 'the law leads us to Christ.'

I read that as the sacrificial law, priesthood law, moral law, civil law, health law, food law, etc. The whole law and the prophets!

In other words, Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, the great high priest, perfectly moral, etc.

You seem to alternate between the ten and the law.

How do you define the word 'law'?

 

[klutedavid]

The law leads us to Christ ....

The law lead the Jews to Christ. But the Gentiles did not have the law, they did not know of YHWH.
The Gentiles were strangers to the law and the prophets.

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

How can the law which the Gentiles did not know then lead them to Christ?