Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting

[abacabb3]

Were you given any early treatment?

No, just supplements and rest.

 

[truefiction1]

Your 1 + 1 = 3 math is getting very tiresome...

False accusation... I'm not a mathematician, simply anti-abortion. There is no math involved. If one is anti-abortion, then one must not benefit from things which the so-called "products of conception" are used for. If I die I die; like a seed that dies and falls to the ground. I will not taste of death, but have already passed from death to Life. The Lord's Kingdom is not of this world. Your vaccines, on the other hand, are of this world. I won't receive them.

 

[Dorothea]

In case you missed watching this video, these particular lines really caught my attention, and he said this on Holy Thursday this past spring 2021:

"They will blackmail your children. They will blackmail you through them. I don't know exactly what this thing will be, but I only know (according to what was given to me to understand) that they will do a great evil against children, and at that time, you will cry a lot." - Fr. Elpidios

An update on what's to come, told to us by Fr. Elpidios.

 

[truefiction1]

Having had Covid and not being vaccinated, I personally did not just shake it off. As for Newsom, he has reappeared and looks healthy.

Have you regretted not having been vaccinated?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

False accusation... I'm not a mathematician, simply anti-abortion. There is no math involved. If one is anti-abortion, then one must not benefit from things which the so-called "products of conception" are used for. If I die I die; like a seed that dies and falls to the ground. I will not taste of death, but have already passed from death to Life. The Lord's Kingdom is not of this world. Your vaccines, on the other hand, are of this world. I won't receive them.

No, not false, you do it much of the time...you say one thing and then imply it has to do with another where there is really no connection and then pontificate about it, acting like any fool should see it. And it is not "my vaccine". I really do not care if you get vaccinated or not...that is your business...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

In case you missed watching this video, these particular lines really caught my attention, and he said this on Holy Thursday this past spring 2021:

"They will blackmail your children. They will blackmail you through them. I don't know exactly what this thing will be, but I only know (according to what was given to me to understand) that they will do a great evil against children, and at that time, you will cry a lot." - Fr. Elpidios

More Nostradamian interpretation?...1 + 1 =3?...read in what you want it to mean?...that could mean virtually ANYTHING..."I don't know exactly what this thing will be..."

 

[rusmeister]

It's easy to see both of the opposing sides in this matter. I think what would help you guys is not so much asserting your own position, but grasping what is not unreasonable in the position of the other. If you try, it's not too hard to see both why some people think the vaccines are good and everyone ought to get them, AND why others see a direct attack via the plandemic on the health, prosperity, and freedom of themselves and their loved ones.

Thus, TF says "your vaccine", from a pace of emotion - understandable if you see his side, though unfair, not distinguishing between supporting or promoting a thing, and ownership of it as a producer and beneficiary. And thus Yeshua says, "pontificate", perhaps unintentionally imputing an implication of pride and arrogance where none such is intended. And so, we respond emotionally. Heck, I've done it. (And the interlocuter reported me, perceiving personal threat where there was none)

I think trying to "get" the other guy's worries and concerns to be helpful. Doing a "charity check" before hitting "post" is also a good idea. If we can remove the emotionally charged words from our own speech, we might more easily come to common understandings. (An advantage of writing over speaking - when we talk live and in person, what we think usually slips out too fast for us to think about it.)

 

[truefiction1]

No, not false, you do it much of the time...you say one thing and then imply it has to do with another where there is really no connection and then pontificate about it, acting like any fool should see it. And it is not "my vaccine". I really do not care if you get vaccinated or not...that is your business...

Maybe the problem isn't that there really is no connection between the various pictures I sometimes "paint" with my words. I'm not working mathematically. I'm working artistically and poetically, and even Theologically perhaps, and it could be that some individuals lack a capacity to see beyond the metaphor into the truth to which they point. If you continue with such assertions, I'll surely begin to realize more thoroughly what St. Paisios was referring to with other things that he had indicated was the case with some people.

If you agree with a thing (vaccines) whether "by word or deed", it becomes "your" personal property, in essence. So even if you don't care if I'm vaccinated or not it's still "your" vaccine. Can you at least make that connection? or is even this impossible? Even if I painted a clear picture of this connection with well articulated arguments would it not still elude you? How much time does a person have to explain things? I don't have much time. You'll either see the connections that are really there, because you're already well aware that they exist, or you won't see them no matter how hard I work to paint them. That's why I usually use the "method of signs", and sometimes will use parables, or typologies, and it's not my fault if a person doesn't see: it's theirs.

 

[Andrei D]

@rusmeister - you hit the nail on the head!

In related news, let's not lose sight of what the ongoing, scary problem is:
Austria plunges two million unvaccinated into lockdown
Austria threw around two million unvaccinated people into lockdown on Monday in a bid to slow the fast spread of the coronavirus in the country.
The move prohibits unvaccinated individuals older than age 12 from leaving their homes except for basic activities such as working, grocery shopping, going for a walk


So, yeah, if the world would be like "I really do not care if you get vaccinated or not...that is your business..." this discussion wouldn't be emotional or intense at all. As things stand though...

 

[truefiction1]

It's easy to see both of the opposing sides in this matter. I think what would help you guys is not so much asserting your own position, but grasping what is not unreasonable in the position of the other. If you try, it's not too hard to see both why some people think the vaccines are good and everyone ought to get them, AND why others see a direct attack via the plandemic on the health, prosperity, and freedom of themselves and their loved ones.

Thus, TF says "your vaccine", from a pace of emotion - understandable if you see his side, though unfair, not distinguishing between supporting or promoting a thing, and ownership of it as a producer and beneficiary. And thus Yeshua says, "pontificate", perhaps unintentionally imputing an implication of pride and arrogance where none such is intended. And so, we respond emotionally. Heck, I've done it. (And the interlocuter reported me, perceiving personal threat where there was none)

I think trying to "get" the other guy's worries and concerns to be helpful. Doing a "charity check" before hitting "post" is also a good idea. If we can remove the emotionally charged words from our own speech, we might more easily come to common understandings. (An advantage of writing over speaking - when we talk live and in person, what we think usually slips out too fast for us to think about it.)

I believe, as stated in my last reply to Yeshua, that if any of us agrees to a thing by way of reason and action then it becomes a personal property of ours. So it really does become "ours". In the particular case of a vaccine, it's literally placed within our body, and thus becomes "ours". Would it be foolish for me to assume that Yeshua is vaccinated with Covid vaccine? If he isn't then I'm a fool and stand corrected.

 

[truefiction1]

It's easy to see both of the opposing sides in this matter. I think what would help you guys is not so much asserting your own position, but grasping what is not unreasonable in the position of the other. If you try, it's not too hard to see both why some people think the vaccines are good and everyone ought to get them, AND why others see a direct attack via the plandemic on the health, prosperity, and freedom of themselves and their loved ones.

Thus, TF says "your vaccine", from a pace of emotion - understandable if you see his side, though unfair, not distinguishing between supporting or promoting a thing, and ownership of it as a producer and beneficiary. And thus Yeshua says, "pontificate", perhaps unintentionally imputing an implication of pride and arrogance where none such is intended. And so, we respond emotionally. Heck, I've done it. (And the interlocuter reported me, perceiving personal threat where there was none)

I think trying to "get" the other guy's worries and concerns to be helpful. Doing a "charity check" before hitting "post" is also a good idea. If we can remove the emotionally charged words from our own speech, we might more easily come to common understandings. (An advantage of writing over speaking - when we talk live and in person, what we think usually slips out too fast for us to think about it.)

This is insightful, no doubt. But, even if in person, face to face, if asked why I won't be vaccinated, I would say exactly why. People generally avoid asking me. My sister and her husband abandoned Christ's Church because of her practicing homosexual son. They avoid asking me what I believe with regards to their choice in this regard. If asked I would tell them that they are making a horrible choice and would tell them why. There is no emotion on my part in this matter, only the preaching of the Gospel. It's no different with others in relation to my choice with certain vaccines. Why would or should it be? They just never ask me. They ask others whom they feel they can sway. On here, they ask me, so I can answer, and I do.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Maybe the problem isn't that there really is no connection between the various pictures I sometimes "paint" with my words. I'm not working mathematically. I'm working artistically and poetically, and even Theologically perhaps, and it could be that some individuals lack a capacity to see beyond the metaphor into the truth to which they point. If you continue with such assertions, I'll surely begin to realize more thoroughly what St. Paisios was referring to with other things that he had indicated was the case with some people.

If you agree with a thing (vaccines) whether "by word or deed", it becomes "your" personal property, in essence. So even if you don't care if I'm vaccinated or not it's still "your" vaccine. Can you at least make that connection? or is even this impossible? Even if I painted a clear picture of this connection with well articulated arguments would it not still elude you? How much time does a person have to explain things? I don't have much time. You'll either see the connections that are really there, because you're already well aware that they exist, or you won't see them no matter how hard I work to paint them. That's why I usually use the "method of signs", and sometimes will use parables, or typologies, and it's not my fault if a person doesn't see: it's theirs.

uh huh...so if someone does not see that 1 + 1 = 3, it is THEIR problem, not yours...and no, it is not "my vaccine"...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I believe, as stated in my last reply to Yeshua, that if any of us agrees to a thing by way of reason and action then it becomes a personal property of ours. So it really does become "ours". In the particular case of a vaccine, it's literally placed within our body, and thus becomes "ours". Would it be foolish for me to assume that Yeshua is vaccinated with Covid vaccine? If he isn't then I'm a fool and stand corrected.

I never said if I was or was not...you ASSUME I am...and from there you assume everything else (your 1 + 1 = 3). I was just discussing the topic here...

 

[abacabb3]

Have you regretted not having been vaccinated?

Short answer is no, but if I were dying I would have much more to think about as this issue has not been settled by any recent saints. If I were in my 50s I'd probably be hospitalized. Other family members were not affected profoundly. THe one family member who was vaccinated had zero symptoms. I am well aware that statistically, this is often not the case, so I am merely speaking of my own family. Also, I have no idea whether I would have had side effects from the vaccine, long term effects are unknown, and so it's hard to weigh cost and benefit.

What I am troubled by is that the popular vaccine technologies all manipulate RNA (the exception is a singular Chinese vaccine, Sinopharm, which is in fact the Coronavirus). As a matter of bioethics, not having a deified nous, I honestly do not know if it is moral to manipulate the workings of human cells at the mitochondrial level. Where do we draw the line? Can we take brain transplants? Metropolitan Philaret of Blessed Memory, whose body is incorrupt at Jordanville, said there can be no heart or lung transplants. So, what we will likely have form over time (as medical technology is speedier than saint canonizations) is a consensus over what medical procedures and medicines/elixirs are not allowable morally. The criteria for the Orthodox Christian is not, simply, if it is possible its permissible. Then we have Saint Paisios' repeated prophecies warning something just like what we have now--however, he also warned about ID cards, credit cards, and even dollar bills. This does not make him wrong, my intent is not to discredit him--but rather to contextualize his teaching.

And so, I do not feel comfortable with the vaccine until our generation's saints weigh in on it. Everything coming from it appears to buttress a inappropriate behavior with animals system and compromised bioethics. I do not see the positive fruit spiritually though there appears some genuine medical benefit for one family member I have.

However, if I were dying in a hospital leaving my son and wife, I'd probably see the ambiguity and decide with more clarity, maybe I should have got the vaccine. But then I would feel guilty for the aforementioned reasons and whatever that is not of faith is sin, as the Scriptures say. So, that reflects only upon my own sinfulness.

Again, short answer, no regrets. Long answer--it's more complicated.

 

[Dorothea]

More Nostradamian interpretation?...1 + 1 =3?...read in what you want it to mean?...that could mean virtually ANYTHING..."I don't know exactly what this thing will be..."

I think it's more concrete and valid when one doesn't say he knows everything.

 

[Dorothea]

@rusmeister - you hit the nail on the head!

In related news, let's not lose sight of what the ongoing, scary problem is:
Austria plunges two million unvaccinated into lockdown
Austria threw around two million unvaccinated people into lockdown on Monday in a bid to slow the fast spread of the coronavirus in the country.
The move prohibits unvaccinated individuals older than age 12 from leaving their homes except for basic activities such as working, grocery shopping, going for a walk


So, yeah, if the world would be like "I really do not care if you get vaccinated or not...that is your business..." this discussion wouldn't be emotional or intense at all. As things stand though...

sounds like those unvaccinated in Austria are in a type of house arrest.

 

[Dorothea]

A few days ago I just remembered something that is extremely important and relevant for me regarding taking the covid vaccine. I have several reasons why I am not taking it, but I'd forgotten about one of the ingredients in it, and my reaction to such ingredient back in 2013 -- PEG and PPG. I used to dye my hair until I had a bad reaction to it in 2013. I couldn't breathe well at all while the dye was in my hair and even after I washed it out. I called the nurse on standby at Clairol (yeah, the hair company has nurses, which shouldn't be surprising because so many women (mostly) have had bad reactions to the PEG/PPG in their hair dyes. I seemed to have had some type of anaphylactic response. Ended up going to the ER, suggested by the Clairol nurse, and was put on oxygen and had an EKG done on me. Took about a half hour to go back to breathing normally. So, in essence, I cannot take the vaccine because I am allergic to one of its ingredients. And that reason is most always accepted as an exemption.

 

[Dorothea]

Saginaw Township Schools Closed Last Monday Due To Reactions To Covid Booster Shot

excerpt:

"12,591 v-safe registrants who completed a health check-in survey after all 3 doses of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, 79.4% and 74.1% reported local or systemic reactions, respectively, after the third dose; 77.6% and 76.5% reported local or systemic reactions after the second dose, respectively.”

 

[truefiction1]

uh huh...so if someone does not see that 1 + 1 = 3, it is THEIR problem, not yours...and no, it is not "my vaccine"...

Well then, if it is not your vaccine, then you are unvaccinated with it; which is expressed as 0=0. If you are vaccinated with it then it is your vaccine; which is expressed by 1=1. That's how the math is done in my math book. Like I said, if I've assumed incorrectly regarding your vaccination status then I've made a ridiculous mistake. But my mathematical formula is still correct, if you will insist on using mathematics to demonstrate this. But I don't know why anyone would bring arithmetic to bear on the discussion. It just seems like a diversion away from the primary question of whether it is moral to benefit from products developed through experimentation performed on "products of conception" made available from elective abortions. This truly is the heart of the matter. Whatever side we choose on this question, the choice is ours, along with the responsibility for the choice. In other words, we own it. It's ours. I don't currently own the vaccine because I've chosen against it. Neither has it been placed within my bodily person. I don't own it physically or morally. If you don't either, then you should just come right out and say so. Or if you're on the fence and are just trying to figure out what side you should be on, then It would be good if you would say so. Frankly, the tone of your posts makes it look like you lean heavily towards moral justification for use of the products of conception from electively aborted fetuses in scientific experimentation, or are otherwise against it, but not against Christians benefiting from the products of conception themselves.

So if it's not too much to ask, are you decided and if so, what is your decision? If you haven't already done so elsewhere, please articulate clearly your own convicted answer to this moral question. After you've done so, then perhaps you'll be able to convince me that my "numbers" don't really add up correctly.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I think it's more concrete and valid when one doesn't say he knows everything.

Well if he said he didn't know then why do you think YOU Do? LOL