And Back to Racial Discrimination

Aussie Pete

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Misleading title. The instruction is for interviews to be offered to a quota of people with protected characteristics.
"Hello, this is Bob," and I'm thinking, "not with that accent."

About 15 years ago, I was supervising a call center in a Fortune 50 insurance company that had a specific policy to keep its call center reps in-country. Yet, we did have people with foreign accents. I recall one time a call was passed to me as supervisor from a customer who was hopping mad because he believed he had been passed to reps in foreign countries, and was outraged that the company was outsourcing customer service.

What had happened purely serendipitously is that we had reps who were originally--this is no lie--from Ireland, England, and Scotland all at the same time, and at various times this customer had called, he had gotten all of them.

My initial though was, "Who the heck complains about an English accent?"

My cube was not far from the Irish rep. He pronounced his name "Oh-Sheen." All day long, I heard him answering his phone, "Hello, this is Oisin...Oisin...Oh-Eye-Ess-Eye-In."

All...day...long.
I was on the road as a sales rep. Talking to customers, usually engineers, was great fun when they were from Iran or India. I tried to sell an Israeli made product to a Muslim. That did not go well. When God confused the languages, He made a thorough job of it.
 
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renniks

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One of world's largest investment firms will need permission to hire White men

Leaders at one of the largest investment firms in the world, State Street Global Advisors, will need to ask permission to hire White men as it rolls out a diversity hiring initiative.

Literal double standards for white men and monetary incentives to not hire them.

The firm will still hire White men, McNicholas said, but recruiters are required to show that women and minority applicants were interviewed by the panels.

Does anyone actually see this as a good way to improve upon the days when racial discrimination was the norm? By making racial discrimination the norm?
It's insane. Reverse discrimination is still racist.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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I was on the road as a sales rep. Talking to customers, usually engineers, was great fun when they were from Iran or India. I tried to sell an Israeli made product to a Muslim. That did not go well. When God confused the languages, He made a thorough job of it.

I worked for an Israeli company. We could sell the US version to the Muslim countries, but our team had to get new passports if they had been in Israel so they could travel to some ME countries. That got interesting for them.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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It's insane. Reverse discrimination is still racist.

How is merely offering minorities just the opportunity of an interview discrimination of any kind? They are not excluding white candidates. They are including minority and women candidates.
 
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rturner76

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But if it is in the name of diversity for the sake of it, just wrong.
Is it wrong for someone to say "I would like a diverse workforce to reach a diverse world?" Economics is a global game now.
 
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Larniavc

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I can understand wanting to ensure that they at least interview minorities and whatnot, as ensuring that they get a chance to at least be heard is still something that is needed. However, the position should always go to the most qualified applicant, period.
Where in the article does it say the criteria at the interview stage will be tiered?
 
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stevil

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The firm will still hire White men, McNicholas said, but recruiters are required to show that women and minority applicants were interviewed by the panels.
Seems reasonable to me. Especially in a white dominated business environment where many people get job interviews due to their connections. Hence white has and retains over the years, the upper hand. Therefore needs some redress. No harm in interviewing people.

But yet another, Oh us poor repressed whiteys thread.
Really feel for the horrible plight of whites in USA.
 
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renniks

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How is merely offering minorities just the opportunity of an interview discrimination of any kind? They are not excluding white candidates. They are including minority and women candidates.
Were they excluded before?
 
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Larniavc

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Selection should always been for the best qualified. Not based on race or gender.
I didn’t think I’d need to explain this simple concept but selecting people to see at interview (which is what happens in the article) is not the same as selecting people for the job.

I don’t understand how you need this explained to you.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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Were they excluded before?

No one said they were. But, the company has decided to ensure that they are not by giving incentives for hiring managers to interview minorities and women where they haven't in the past.

Selection should always been for the best qualified. Not based on race or gender.

Nothing in the article says otherwise. We see here again the assumption that the white male candidate must be the most qualified by default, and simply ensuring that minorities are considered is somehow discriminatory against white males.
 
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bekkilyn

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I have mixed feelings on all of this. While I agree that women and minorities need to have these opportunities, I detest having my time wasted. There are so many times when a hiring manager already knows who he or she will be hiring and/or has an internal candidate in mind, but because of some law or regulation, either company-wide or government, they are forced to interview a certain number of external candidates when they have absolutely no intention of hiring any of them.

Now there is sometimes the rare occasion in which one of those candidates is so incredibly impressive that they manage to luck out and get the job anyway, but for the most part, it's a waste of time for both the hiring managers and the (already rejected) candidates who spend all that time in interviews and getting their hopes up.

Also, I want to know that I got selected because of my skills and talents and what I can bring to a company rather than just because I'm a body filling a hiring quota.

But then without the quotas, are the most qualified people often passed over due to status quo?

Or do the most qualified people get passed over because they have to fill quotas?
 
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rambot

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I have mixed feelings on all of this. While I agree that women and minorities need to have these opportunities, I detest having my time wasted. There are so many times when a hiring manager already knows who he or she will be hiring and/or has an internal candidate in mind, but because of some law or regulation, either company-wide or government, they are forced to interview a certain number of external candidates when they have absolutely no intention of hiring any of them.

Now there is sometimes the rare occasion in which one of those candidates is so incredibly impressive that they manage to luck out and get the job anyway, but for the most part, it's a waste of time for both the hiring managers and the (already rejected) candidates who spend all that time in interviews and getting their hopes up.

Also, I want to know that I got selected because of my skills and talents and what I can bring to a company rather than just because I'm a body filling a hiring quota.

But then without the quotas, are the most qualified people often passed over due to status quo?

Or do the most qualified people get passed over because they have to fill quotas?
I know plently of people from that scenario who were then called and interviewed for a different position in that company because of the quality of their interview.
Sure it's not THAT job, but it was a much better job for every person in that circumstance.
 
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bekkilyn

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I know plently of people from that scenario who were then called and interviewed for a different position in that company because of the quality of their interview.
Sure it's not THAT job, but it was a much better job for every person in that circumstance.

Well that's a good point that would need to be factored in.
 
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renniks

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I didn’t think I’d need to explain this simple concept but selecting people to see at interview (which is what happens in the article) is not the same as selecting people for the job.

I don’t understand how you need this explained to you.
If you are selecting people based on race for the interview you are also selecting for the job based on race. I don't understand how you need this explained to you.
 
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stevil

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Selection should always been for the best qualified. Not based on race or gender.
Yes, but many times, especial in managerial roles, candidates are found via referrals.

The problem with referrals is that people refer on people that they know, not people that they don't know.

White males are more likely to associate with other white males, therefore since managerial positions are predominately held by white males, referrals will tend to be for other white males.

Women and minorities don't even get their CVs on the table, and don't even get to the interview stage.
If you give them a leg up to that stage, it is then upto the interview panel to then decide based on the merits of the CV and the interviews.
 
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RDKirk

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There are so many times when a hiring manager already knows who he or she will be hiring and/or has an internal candidate in mind,

That can be a problem when prior discriminatory hiring practices have created the situation that the internal pool does not present the desired diversity.
 
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