For The Orthodox Faithful Who Are Confused About Covid Vaccines: Orthodox Talks

[Dorothea]

I'm very upset right now. I feel like I'm losing my family and friends. My sister texted me and told me my mom is going to get the covid shot even though she just had covid a week or so ago. I said to my sister that Mom has immunity now. She doesn't need the shot. She said that's why they're going to wait 90 days since natural immunity only lasts two months. That's false. A woman's daughter had her antibodies checked this week, and she had covid in March 2020. She still has robust antibodies. I, of course, pushed back on that. I'm worried over her getting this shot that will mess up her natural immunity. Lord, have mercy. My sister snaps at me that I don't know what the bleep I'm talking about. I have followed scientists and doctors just like her, just ones that aren't part of big pharma. She didn't answer me after I stated my arguments. I ended with how about having Mom's antibodies checked after 90 days. Then they can make an informed decision. I know she still has antibodies (assuming the PCR test that said she had covid, she actually had it).

 

[SeraphimSarov]

I stand behind my hierarch as well.

I understand feeling like an outsider on a site I’ve been on for around 16 years as well (2005). I think we started around the same time. You are still one of our old time TAWers though, even if it feels that way.

Apologies for overstating when I said “any of us”.

No worries. I shouldn't have poked my head in this thread. Nothing good can come of it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm very upset right now. I feel like I'm losing my family and friends. My sister texted me and told me my mom is going to get the covid shot even though she just had covid a week or so ago. I said to my sister that Mom has immunity now. She doesn't need the shot. She said that's why they're going to wait 90 days since natural immunity only lasts two months. That's false. A woman's daughter had her antibodies checked this week, and she had covid in March 2020. She still has robust antibodies. I, of course, pushed back on that. I'm worried over her getting this shot that will mess up her natural immunity. Lord, have mercy. My sister snaps at me that I don't know what the bleep I'm talking about. I have followed scientists and doctors just like her, just ones that aren't part of big pharma. She didn't answer me after I stated my arguments. I ended with how about having Mom's antibodies checked after 90 days. Then they can make an informed decision. I know she still has antibodies (assuming the PCR test that said she had covid, she actually had it).

Lord have mercy!

 

[truefiction1]

I'm very upset right now. I feel like I'm losing my family and friends. My sister texted me and told me my mom is going to get the covid shot even though she just had covid a week or so ago. I said to my sister that Mom has immunity now. She doesn't need the shot. She said that's why they're going to wait 90 days since natural immunity only lasts two months. That's false. A woman's daughter had her antibodies checked this week, and she had covid in March 2020. She still has robust antibodies. I, of course, pushed back on that. I'm worried over her getting this shot that will mess up her natural immunity. Lord, have mercy. My sister snaps at me that I don't know what the bleep I'm talking about. I have followed scientists and doctors just like her, just ones that aren't part of big pharma. She didn't answer me after I stated my arguments. I ended with how about having Mom's antibodies checked after 90 days. Then they can make an informed decision. I know she still has antibodies (assuming the PCR test that said she had covid, she actually had it).

Lord have mercy.

 

[prodromos]

I'm very upset right now. I feel like I'm losing my family and friends. My sister texted me and told me my mom is going to get the covid shot even though she just had covid a week or so ago. I said to my sister that Mom has immunity now. She doesn't need the shot. She said that's why they're going to wait 90 days since natural immunity only lasts two months. That's false. A woman's daughter had her antibodies checked this week, and she had covid in March 2020. She still has robust antibodies. I, of course, pushed back on that. I'm worried over her getting this shot that will mess up her natural immunity. Lord, have mercy. My sister snaps at me that I don't know what the bleep I'm talking about. I have followed scientists and doctors just like her, just ones that aren't part of big pharma. She didn't answer me after I stated my arguments. I ended with how about having Mom's antibodies checked after 90 days. Then they can make an informed decision. I know she still has antibodies (assuming the PCR test that said she had covid, she actually had it).

Even when the antibodies wane, she will still have T-cell immunity for decades and her antibodies would immediately jump if she is exposed to Covid again.
Lord have mercy!

 

[SingularityOne]

Not that article but is linked to Fr. Kosmas' website that you posted.

Oh, great! Thanks.

 

[Andrei D]

OKOK... can we make a little round up? Which jurisdiction says what? I know I sad I'd stay away, but seeing as people compare jurisdictions, I am really curious what each says!

I'll start: OCA > Romanian Episcopate
Guidance implicitly, rather than explicitly, states no religious exemptions, but also implies a stance against mandates. My interpretation of the text is "it's not our business, we're washing our hands". Also, note that they state they echo the opinion of the Assembly - so I assume most / all jurisdictions represented there have a similar position. Emphasis mine:
"The Church believes in the freedom of conscience. From the beginning of the pandemic, the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the United States has directed the faithful to consult and discuss such medical matters - the vaccination - with one’s personal physician, who is the appropriate authority in such matters. This is a matter of personal medical choice to be discussed with one’s doctor. It may also be considered to be a matter of legal rights, and thus, it should be addressed to one’s legal advisor."

The church also sent us a link to this, although I am not sure who/what the OTSA is. It sounds impressive, but I do not know - maybe some of you are more aware of this body? I am not making any comment or imply that I personally agree with all or part of these documents, but it seems clear that this is what the OCA stands for:
Coronavirus (COVID-19) – The Orthodox Theological Society in America (otsamerica.net)
Highlights are:
- vaccines are ethical: "The vaccines in no way legitimize or promote abortion; rather they combat disease and death, support health, and enable life—not death" (references: the EP and two Catholic sources)
- vaccines are perfectly safe and effective, and everyone should get vaccinated, including pregnant women and children

 

[Dorothea]

Even when the antibodies wane, she will still have T-cell immunity for decades and her antibodies would immediately jump if she is exposed to Covid again.
Lord have mercy!

Yes. If only this was made more known to people. Ugh. Thanks!

 

[Dorothea]

Oh, great! Thanks.

you're welcome.

 

[truefiction1]

OKOK... can we make a little round up? Which jurisdiction says what? I know I sad I'd stay away, but seeing as people compare jurisdictions, I am really curious what each says!

I'll start: OCA > Romanian Episcopate
Guidance implicitly, rather than explicitly, states no religious exemptions, but also implies a stance against mandates. My interpretation of the text is "it's not our business, we're washing our hands". Also, note that they state they echo the opinion of the Assembly - so I assume most / all jurisdictions represented there have a similar position. Emphasis mine:
"The Church believes in the freedom of conscience. From the beginning of the pandemic, the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the United States has directed the faithful to consult and discuss such medical matters - the vaccination - with one’s personal physician, who is the appropriate authority in such matters. This is a matter of personal medical choice to be discussed with one’s doctor. It may also be considered to be a matter of legal rights, and thus, it should be addressed to one’s legal advisor."

The church also sent us a link to this, although I am not sure who/what the OTSA is. It sounds impressive, but I do not know - maybe some of you are more aware of this body? I am not making any comment or imply that I personally agree with all or part of these documents, but it seems clear that this is what the OCA stands for:
Coronavirus (COVID-19) – The Orthodox Theological Society in America (otsamerica.net)
Highlights are:
- vaccines are ethical: "The vaccines in no way legitimize or promote abortion; rather they combat disease and death, support health, and enable life—not death" (references: the EP and two Catholic sources)
- vaccines are perfectly safe and effective, and everyone should get vaccinated, including pregnant women and children

Let me know if you discover a jurisdiction that believes differently than the above so I can move there

 

[truefiction1]

OKOK... can we make a little round up? Which jurisdiction says what? I know I sad I'd stay away, but seeing as people compare jurisdictions, I am really curious what each says!

I'll start: OCA > Romanian Episcopate
Guidance implicitly, rather than explicitly, states no religious exemptions, but also implies a stance against mandates. My interpretation of the text is "it's not our business, we're washing our hands". Also, note that they state they echo the opinion of the Assembly - so I assume most / all jurisdictions represented there have a similar position. Emphasis mine:
"The Church believes in the freedom of conscience. From the beginning of the pandemic, the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the United States has directed the faithful to consult and discuss such medical matters - the vaccination - with one’s personal physician, who is the appropriate authority in such matters. This is a matter of personal medical choice to be discussed with one’s doctor. It may also be considered to be a matter of legal rights, and thus, it should be addressed to one’s legal advisor."

The church also sent us a link to this, although I am not sure who/what the OTSA is. It sounds impressive, but I do not know - maybe some of you are more aware of this body? I am not making any comment or imply that I personally agree with all or part of these documents, but it seems clear that this is what the OCA stands for:
Coronavirus (COVID-19) – The Orthodox Theological Society in America (otsamerica.net)
Highlights are:
- vaccines are ethical: "The vaccines in no way legitimize or promote abortion; rather they combat disease and death, support health, and enable life—not death" (references: the EP and two Catholic sources)
- vaccines are perfectly safe and effective, and everyone should get vaccinated, including pregnant women and children

I think those who say such things and those who believe them are under a spell, so that they can't tell good from evil and evil from good.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I think those who say such things and those who believe them are under a spell, so that they can't tell good from evil and evil from good.

In the last times, the laity will keep the Orthodoxy while the hierarchy/false teachers are seduced by the world.

 

[truefiction1]

In the last times, the laity will keep the Orthodoxy while the hierarchy/false teachers are seduced by the world.

Much of us (the laity) are under the same spell, or are otherwise being led by some false spirit taking yet other forms of expression. Great spiritual care ought to be taken in these here times.

 

[ArmyMatt]

But I think it IS harm, and so will react accordingly.

many agree. even the Secret Service has members who are suing to stop the mandates.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But wait there is more! Oh boy!

The CDC says it's identified a new Delta-related coronavirus variant in the US, and officials are monitoring it closely

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

I just don’t know what to do except pray and be against forced public vaccinations

 

[truefiction1]

I just don’t know what to do except pray and be against forced public vaccinations

Pray. Repent. Acquire the Holy Spirit.

 

[truefiction1]

Forgive them, Adam, they know not what they're doing. Lord have mercy.

 

[Dorothea]

But wait there is more! Oh boy!

The CDC says it's identified a new Delta-related coronavirus variant in the US, and officials are monitoring it closely

Not surprised. Even though the average lifespan of a virus in this type of situation is 2 years. SARS Cov-1 petered out within that amount of time or earlier. For me personally, it seems those in control and have the power want to continue this indefinitely.