Why is Christianity so mysterious and self-contradictory?

[Abaxvahl]

Then why does God give Satan unconditional permission and why doesn't he allow us to have a say in it, say if it was somebody who is a killer, only one person's free will is taken away for potentially hundreds of lives. I don't think it's a violation of free will if we could give God requests once in a while to stop or not allow a person to do such a thing (by proxy through Satan).

He doesn't give Satan unconditional permission. It is extremely conditioned: it is exactly as much as God gave him. Free will has nothing to do with you being able to not be killed, one might as well say they do not have free will because they can't teleport to Mars if they want to.

 

[VCR-2000]

Don't confuse Christianity, a man made religion, with the truth of scriptures. They tell opposing stories. Christianity has struggled under the burden of those who wish to return man to the world rather than enjoy the freedom the Spirit has offered them. Look at how the religion rejected the Kingdom/governance of God to instead harlot itself to Rome and the governance of man, and enjoy a partnership with the world of man, seeking wealth and power side by side following the self serving ways of man rather than the other oriented will of God.

I don't see what is that dramatically different between the man-made religion and scripture, except maybe in the way man attempted to communicate it. I don't know what "spiritual freedom" is though, I find more excitement and thrill in the physical material aspect of existence, I like the basic earthly structures and systems of man (which isn't inherently all that bad thing). That is the way my thinking works. Does God not have anything to offer me in regards to that scope? I'm not looking for just a spiritually relationship with God and Jesus. What about my other ideas and pursuits? What about my God-given want of a woman and family?

But don't get me completely wrong here, I can acknowledge that Christianity is a good foundation and advice for general morality and how to run a society, but I don't get the actual relationship part.

 

[timothyu]

I like the basic earthly structures and systems of man (which isn't inherently all that bad thing). That is the way my thinking works.

Are you an advocate of self interest and of its effects on others, gain at the expense of others? That is the system of man. It is the foundation of this world that we have made in our own image.

 

[Albion]

You obviously missed out on the last 1700 years of church persecution especially with the beginnings of the Reformation. Even your own archbishops were executed.

That figure you used was nowhere near accurate, and of course I wasn't being asked about ancient history (!) when a seeker online posed questions about Christianity and Christians today.

 

[timothyu]

when a seeker online posed questions about Christianity and Christians today.

Was there a magical transformation to the foundations of today's Christianity, a religion more world oriented than of the Kingdom and governance of God? The blind still lead the blind and as a result people have been have led to question the hypocrisy of the religious.

 

[TheWhat?]

Satan is allowed to have this way over us full rein, but their is an imbalance of power here.

I do think we need to be careful to not attribute more power to the evil one than is appropriate, nor too little. We shouldn't confuse it to be a god, but we should not think we're more powerful than it. Aquinas seems to have thought that angels have a kind of dominion via a created order of things, forming a hierarchy -- something like the natural food chain is the impression I had. That being the case, if one were to encounter it it may seem as if it needs no permissions, even if it were limited by some being(s) with greater dominion.

I think it agrees with the catholic world view, and with my experience, that the thing to do is to get out from under the influence of evil powers, and we do this not by our own strength but by invoking the help of God and the holy angels.

 

[Carl Emerson]

why does God give Satan unconditional permission

He doesn't... Read Job

 

[Petros2015]

Then why does God give Satan unconditional permission

He doesn't.

and why doesn't he allow us to have a say in it

Because we'd likely choose wrong.

I don't think it's a violation of free will if we could give God requests once in a while to stop or not allow a person to do such a thing (by proxy through Satan).

I don't either, and it's happened before. I suspect it is blocked from happening a lot more than we know. As bad as things are sometimes, if God *really* packed up shop and moved on... I doubt there'd be a human left alive on the planet after a week. I think He's the source of what light, life, love, sanity and holiness we have, in any human, whether they acknowledge Him as that source or not and whether they have much of it or little. And yes, we need more, much more. And yes, there is more, much more, for the giving. But I certainly wouldn't want to see less. I suspect we'd all be at each other's throats if He completely withdrew his Presence from us as a race and I suspect He'd be taking the breath of life along with Him as He did so.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Okay, why didn't God just create us to be in Heaven then instead of having to be down here and getting to acquire the desires of being down here? It's not fair. If I was able to have my own afterlife, it would be relatively CONSISTENT with this life now and it would be a true paradise where I can do anything I can practically imagine. The only thing I'd take is no more murder.
Otherwise, I don't feel a purpose here. Sometimes I wish I was never born or existed at all if I knew I was going to be here and have to make a choice between a Heaven or Hell.

God created everything in the beginning and it was all "good". It was man who decided that " good" was not good enough. Along with the gift of life, God also gave us free will. Your taking this gift God gave you and challenging His reasoning for giving it to you. Wishing He never gave it to you. Wishing even you never existed.
Listen to yourself my friend. These are the words of someone who needs to know God loves them. I will pray you find Him soon. He will free you from the bondage of despair. Be blessed.

 

[1watchman]

Then why does God give Satan unconditional permission and why doesn't he allow us to have a say in it, say if it was somebody who is a killer, only one person's free will is taken away for potentially hundreds of lives. I don't think it's a violation of free will if we could give God requests once in a while to stop or not allow a person to do such a thing (by proxy through Satan).

It is foolish to try and argue with Satan, for he will always win in that. If one is not a real "born again" believer in Jesus Christ (as John 3; John14; Romans 8; etc.), that one will have NO power or force, or hope eternally with God. Man fell in sin as in Genesis 2&3, and are at the mercy of Satan in our flesh. We need the Holy Spirit for salvation, strength and care in our walk in this fallen world. Because of man's rebellion in the beginning, he left off the hope and care of our Creator. Restoration is needed --not complaining and trying to blame God.

Reasoning and complaining is not the way to live the Christian life, but RECEIVING the gift of God in His "...beloved Son", who takes very good care of His own. Read the Gospels and Epistles, friend, and see the love of God and His care for His own. NEVER challenge God! That is the most foolish thing one can do.

 

[timothyu]

hat one will have NO power or force, or hope eternally with God. Man fell in sin as in Genesis 2&3, and are at the mercy of Satan in our flesh. We need the Holy Spirit for salvation, strength and care in our walk in this fallen world.

We either follow our animal instincts or we rise to a different level

 

[1watchman]

Okay, Tim, if you prefer 'animal instincts to God; that is your choice. I will pray for you.

 

[timothyu]

Okay, Tim, if you prefer 'animal instincts to God; that is your choice. I will pray for you.

Where did I say that?. But yes most of the world is world oriented so prefers those self serving animal instincts

 

[Aussie Pete]

I think there is a lack of clarity or a mismatch between what Christians see they experience vs. what everyone else sees. I think that Satan is winning the war on people, at least for right now. Yet, I always hear platitudes like "God is in control" or "Satan is weak" while they ignore the problems and situation in this world down here right in front of their eyes and ears, or at least they try to downplay or justify it as being "good" in the end, despite God hating Satan and evil works the most times in the Bible. How could I take such paradoxes or contradictions seriously? If you insist seriously that Satan is weak or losing now and God is "winning", clearly what I see going on right now is exactly the upside-down opposite?

Why does Christianity speak like this?

We have the privilege or reading the end of the book. Satan in reality lost the war 2,000 years ago. He crucified the innocent man and lost his moral authority over all who are born again.
Most people are quite happy to live under Satan's control. They reject God's gracious gift of His Son and prefer their own, wicked ways. They won't accept that there is anything wrong with them. I know a woman who drank and did drugs while pregnant. Her daughter has cerebral palsy, for which she blames God. Billions of people think exactly the same. God is willing to help, mankind refuses His help. So people stay under Satan's thumb and suffer accordingly.

The world is in the control of the evil one, so says God's word. The world is our enemy, yes, even that nice next door neighbour. God allows the world to continue and Satan to remain to give mankind every opportunity to repent. One day God will say, "Enough!" And that will be it. Lord Jesus said that it will be like in the days of Noah. People were just getting on with their lives, ignoring Noah's warnings, until it was too late. The Church should be like Noah, warning people and leading them into the "ark", who is Christ. Those who reject the gospel will have eternity to regret their decision.

 

[timothyu]

The Church should be like Noah, warning people and leading them into the "ark", who is Christ.

They've been too busy trying to lead people to their own worldly institution.

 

[coffee4u]

Okay, why didn't God just create us to be in Heaven then instead of having to be down here and getting to acquire the desires of being down here? It's not fair. If I was able to have my own afterlife, it would be relatively CONSISTENT with this life now and it would be a true paradise where I can do anything I can practically imagine. The only thing I'd take is no more murder.

Otherwise, I don't feel a purpose here. Sometimes I wish I was never born or existed at all if I knew I was going to be here and have to make a choice between a Heaven or Hell.

Because God wants us to choose him. This meant giving us free will.
The church is likened to a bride, now if you proposed marriage to a girl would you want her to say yes because she loves and chooses you over all others or because she is somehow programed like a robot to choose you?

 

[timf]

Why does Christianity speak like this?

There are many voices in Christianity. Some see Christianity advancing until the whole world becomes Christian. This view while rather common, is not supported by the bible.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Christianity was always supposed to be about truth. However, it was not supposed to be a a system that was accepted because we understood and agreed with it. It was to resonate within the heart (those who seek truth).

Joh 18:37b Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Many, often with good intentions, have come to repackage Christianity in different ways that exceed what is given us in the bible. As a result, some very distorted views of Christianity have been presented which can be confusing to Christians themselves much more to those looking at Christianity from the outside.

The difference between what can be fully understood and what can be trusted in was given voice by Peter;

Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[VCR-2000]

We have the privilege or reading the end of the book. Satan in reality lost the war 2,000 years ago. He crucified the innocent man and lost his moral authority over all who are born again.
Most people are quite happy to live under Satan's control. They reject God's gracious gift of His Son and prefer their own, wicked ways. They won't accept that there is anything wrong with them. I know a woman who drank and did drugs while pregnant. Her daughter has cerebral palsy, for which she blames God. Billions of people think exactly the same. God is willing to help, mankind refuses His help. So people stay under Satan's thumb and suffer accordingly.

The world is in the control of the evil one, so says God's word. The world is our enemy, yes, even that nice next door neighbour. God allows the world to continue and Satan to remain to give mankind every opportunity to repent. One day God will say, "Enough!" And that will be it. Lord Jesus said that it will be like in the days of Noah. People were just getting on with their lives, ignoring Noah's warnings, until it was too late. The Church should be like Noah, warning people and leading them into the "ark", who is Christ. Those who reject the gospel will have eternity to regret their decision.

I think it is super unfair that bad wicked awful people don't get their comeuppance in this life. It's not like we would even remember what they did or who they were in the next life anyway, so why bother?

 

[timothyu]

I think it is super unfair that bad wicked awful people don't get their comeuppance in this life. It's not like we would even remember what they did or who they were in the next life anyway, so why bother?

It seems that if vengeance is important to a person then there is no future for them anyway.

 

[VCR-2000]

It seems that if vengeance is important to a person then there is no future for them anyway.

What does that mean?