Why are highly educated and trained professionals refusing to vaccinate?

[rambot]

And nothing at all about injecting bleach.
And speaking of rambling like a madman, I believe we have that going on in the White House now.

I corrected myself. He alluded to injecting disinfectant. And he clearly said that.

You may have that "madman" but he's never said anything as batpoop crazy as this. And this was a COHERENT bunch of nonsense Trump shared. Dr Birx's reaction to this looked unbelievably uncomfortable.

His TRUE word salads sound like someone buzzing on adderall.....hey...wait a sec!

 

[pacomascarot]

I still like you and think very well of you.

Doesn't sound like it. But frankly I couldn't care less either way. I don't really respect you so I don't really care what you think of me. Sorry.

 

[rambot]

You keep saying this as if it were true, but it's not.

But it is. I included a list of 63 studies that was ignore.

Fair enough. But don't say it's not true.

 

[pacomascarot]

You keep saying this as if it were true, but it's not.

I showed you data. Why do you bear false witness?

Interestingly enough, this is exactly what we were told at the beginning of the pandemic... until it became politically convenient to shift the blame to people for not masking.

Face masks considerably reduce COVID-19 cases in Germany

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/...EsJE5E7lDgkcBVPB7b_2CjhPAy2yG2jDzEJ5H5ekpwVIk

 

[essentialsaltes]

For some context, poison control centers field >100,000 calls per year on Acetaminophen overdoses;

The Ivermectin story was hyped up to be something it wasn't, and you apparently fell for it.

Respectfully, 'many' is always a relative word. How many people called poison control about taking bovine antibiotics for the flu?

The numbers from FL and CA imply more than a hundred cases nationwide. And that's for people who called poison control. The actual number who took animal medicine is probably in the thousands. That's many.

I can name more politicians who have taken ivermectin than I can name politicians who turned themselves blue with colloidal silver.

 

[probinson]

The above study is being misapplied as if to infer that COVID vaccines are NOT helping but that's false. It's helping VACCINATED people. It's NOT helping unvaccinated people who are getting sick at high rates.

Nope. The study shows that the vaccines fail to slow the transmission of the disease. In fact, they may accelerate it.

That's not to take anything away from the individual protection that vaccines provide against severe outcomes from COVID, but it sure makes the argument that the vaccines will put an end to COVID sound silly.

 

[pacomascarot]

But it is. I included a list of 63 studies that was ignore.

Fair enough. But don't say it's not true.

Bearing false witness is the new virtue.

As I noted to this poster earlier: even if you do find articles which suggest face mask wearing isn't effective you are stuck with two choices. Only one of them will be the rational choice and that is to wear the masks. If one doesn't wear the masks and they are effective that person is responsible for making people sick and possibly dying.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Yep, Christians can be the worst humans on the face of the earth and it doesn’t matter. It’s why the religion is attractive to psychopaths, narcissists, and charlatans. Say “Jesus is Lord” and continue about your devious ways.

A very warped perspective, one you are fully entitled to!

 

[hislegacy]

Bearing false witness is the new virtue.

As I noted to this poster earlier: even if you do find articles which suggest face mask wearing isn't effective you are stuck with two choices. Only one of them will be the rational choice and that is to wear the masks. If one doesn't wear the masks and they are effective that person is responsible for making people sick and possibly dying.

We got that the first six times.

There just is not an agreement on its accuracy. I don’t think repeating again will make it more accepted.

 

[hislegacy]

Doesn't sound like it. But frankly I couldn't care less either way. I don't really respect you so I don't really care what you think of me. Sorry.

You should come visit.

Low taxes
low crime rate
No mask mandates
Friendly people
Good food
All kinds of job opportunities
Good churches

It would be a refreshing change for you.

 

[rjs330]

am not a trained medical expert which is why I take the conservative and rational approach that is wearing a mask.

Therefore you are a better Christian? By attacking believers who don't believe that masks are effective while holding up your own standard as being the rational and conservative you are saying you are better than them.

Especially when the bible doesn't address mask wearing.

 

[rjs330]

To make this conclusion you would be better to know what percentage of highly educated medical proffessionals are refusing to take vaccines.
If 99% of these people are taking vaccines and only 1% are refusing then this kinda blows this argument out of the water.

So what are the percentage numbers?

Plus there is the issue of causation vs correlation.
What percentage of those people refusing to take the vaccine are Republican supporters, what percentage are Tucker Carlson fans, what percentage are QAnon fans?

Your first point is a good argument for vaccines. Stick with that.

Feel free to argue away for getting vaccinated. Perhaps you might convince someone. Just don't mandate it. It's none of your business.

 

[probinson]

Face masks considerably reduce COVID-19 cases in Germany

From your link;

There is a general perception in Germany that the mandatory use of face masks in public reduces COVID-19 incidences considerably. This perception stems mainly from the city of Jena. After face masks became mandatory between 1 April and 10 April 2020 the number of new infections fell almost to zero.​

Well, let's take a closer look at Germany's number of new infections;

Hmm. What the heck happened in October? If this study is correct and it was the introduction of face masks that kept new infections at 0, why on earth did they skyrocket so high in the fall and winter months? No change in mask mandates was made. So why the spike? And why do NONE of these studies ever study the time period when the spikes occur? They always study a time period when cases are dropping, as I showed with the CDC study earlier today, and totally ignore the data that demonstrably proves their hypothesis is incorrect.

Now check this out;
COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

 

[stevil]

Wow...no natural medicine is science based?
In many cases we would be better off with the herb than with that wonder pill the pharmaceutical company advertises to fix whatever ails you, but has 57 side effects including possible death.

I never said "no natural medicine is science based"
But when "natural" medicine is validated by the scientific method then sure it becomes evidence based.

For people that are interested in "natural medicines" I certainly would advise them to investigate what evidence based studies have been performed on the efficacy of that medicine.
There are a huge amount of natural remedies out there that don't work at all, and some are even dangerous, and some lead to the extinction or endangerment of various species.

When worried about side effects of medicine, people should weigh that up with the side effects of the disease that the medicine is preventing or curing.

 

[probinson]

But it is. I included a list of 63 studies that was ignore.

52 studies referenced here, if you're interested;
COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

 

[rambot]

Nope. The study shows that the vaccines fail to slow the transmission of the disease. In fact, they may accelerate it.

False. They fail to slow the "SPREAD of disease through an unspecified portion of the population". That is NOT the transmission.
They fail to slow the spread of the disease.

The fact that more unvaccinated people are getting sick in one country than another doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't work.

 

[stevil]

By spinning out all that nonsense about QAnon, "moon landing deniers," and the like?

Who could take that explantion seriously?

There are many people who investigate moon landings and reach the conclusion that they are all fake.
There are many people who read up a great deal of QAnon material and consider the USA 2020 election to have been stolen or Democrats to be in a satanic paedophile ring.

Just because people investigate and read stuff, it doesn't mean they have come to the correct conclusions.

 

[Vylo]

You keep saying this as if it were true, but it's not.

There are mechanistic studies in controlled laboratories that do not take into account behavioral science and the fact that we don't live in a controlled environment. Most of these studies are observational in nature, which sit near the bottom of the evidence pyramid in terms of quality of evidence.

So let's look at what the CDC has to say about face masks in their own systematic review of 10 RCTs spanning 72 years (emphasis added). Since you're such a science-y guy, I'm sure you know that systematic reviews of RCTs sit atop the pyramid in quality of evidence;

One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group

...

Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

...

The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies

...

None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group

...

There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

...

Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission

Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures​

Interestingly enough, this is exactly what we were told at the beginning of the pandemic... until it became politically convenient to shift the blame to people for not masking.

Influenza is not covid. It isn't even in the same viral family as covid. Influenza spreads much more through surface contact than covid.

 

[rjs330]

Because I'm sick and tired of living in near permanent lockdown because morons won't do simple things to make the situation better.

Your in lockdown because you have people in power who think they know best for you and everyone else.

Small pox vaccines and the reasons for them are quite different than the COVID vaccines. Quit trying to equate the two. The disease and vaccines are not the same.

 

[rjs330]

What if the anti-maskers are WRONG?

Why can't any of you answer that question?

I think it's because you know in your heart of hearts what the answer is and it won't be easy to justify before the Throne .

If I believe I am right, why would I be judged. After all I am basing my belief on the science that tells me mask mandates don't really help.