Why are highly educated and trained professionals refusing to vaccinate?

[rambot]

Many.

How many?

Twas happenning up here in Alberta too.
Vets and animal care stores indicated that to get ivormectin one would need to provide proof that they owned the livestock.

 

[hislegacy]

I'm really concerned that some of you can't follow this simple approach. I assume your lives are a complete mess if you don't utilize rational thought when weighing risks and rewards.

Thank you for your concern. That really touches my heart. But you are mistaken.

When I follow your simple approach, but look at more than one side of the issue, which I have and Probinson is pointing out also, the conclusions are not the same.

For the record I am fully vaccinated because I travel internationally a number of times a year. I am 62 and in good health. If it were not for travel I would not have ever been vaccinated.

What trained professionals are saying, from what I have read is similar to what I am saying.

We should have the freedom to choose what chemicals we put into our bodies for whatever reason we choose.

For the President to act independently by executive order to force people at the threat of loosing their livelihood, freedom to move unfettered is beyond the scope of his executive powers.

If you want to wear a mask - wear a mask it might and might not help.

If you want to vaccinate. - vaccinate. It might and might not help

Make your personal choice, make your choice and then live with your choice.

As for the outcry of infecting others, if masking is effective and you are wearing one, why would you worry about what I do?


as you stated, you are not a medically trained person, neither am I. Why should I listen to you? We have both read similar studies, I suspect I might have read additional ones that give a different point of view

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Medical Professionals - Medical Doctors - now Pilots.

It's not uneducated people not willing to vaccinate.

Why are highly educated, very well paid professionals refusing?

Thoughts?

People are variable - even smart ones. When you have a large population of any sort you are always going to find outliers. In that case the significance of any one finding can only be evaluated statistically. And statistically, professionals are not refusing the vaccine in huge numbers. In fact, the general public is not refusing the vaccine in such high numbers, considering the amount of misinformation they have been subjected to and the combination of polarization and politicization of the vaccine issue by some leaders.

 

[renniks]

If the President stood in front of a podium and said that, I wouldn't be too surprised if someone did it. SOME people managed to even drink bleach after he suggested it.

But I don't listen to politicians; I'll listen to doctors thank you.

For the record, he never told anyone to drink bleach.

 

[Vylo]

There should be a religious exception.

All major religions predate vaccination, it would be pretty hard for them to have a stance on it. Also we should not base critical public policy on a religious belief but on empirical evidence.

 

[renniks]

All major religions predate vaccination, it would be pretty hard for them to have a stance on it. Also we should not base critical public policy on a religious belief but on empirical evidence.

Facepalm. Just because a religion predates vaccines doesn't mean that it has nothing to say about them.

 

[stevil]

IMHO,They are beginning to think for themselves.
1. The "vaccine" does not prevent one from catching covid.
2. The "vaccine" does not prevent one from passing the virus to others.
"3. Treatments for the virus are available.

1. The vaccine makes it much less likely that a person catches covid, if enough people are vaccinated then the R0 spread goes way down, this reduces the impact on hospitals, if enough people take the vaccine then R0 potentially goes below 1 and the disease will die out from society.
2. If vaccinated people are much less likely to catch covid then they are much less likely to pass it on.
3. 50% of people with covid are asymptomatic and so they will never take the treatments, which means they will pass the disease on at the highest R0 rate. Being vaccinated and not catching Covid gives a better outcome than catching the disease and getting treated for it. People are still dying despite these treatments being available.

 

[hislegacy]

For the record, he never told anyone to drink bleach.

No One ever has.

 

[stevil]

Probably because such people have studied the matter more closely, taken in findings and results from a variety of different sources, and concluded that the case for universal "immunization" has not been made.

To make this conclusion you would be better to know what percentage of highly educated medical proffessionals are refusing to take vaccines.
If 99% of these people are taking vaccines and only 1% are refusing then this kinda blows this argument out of the water.

So what are the percentage numbers?

Plus there is the issue of causation vs correlation.
What percentage of those people refusing to take the vaccine are Republican supporters, what percentage are Tucker Carlson fans, what percentage are QAnon fans?

 

[pacomascarot]

rder to force people at the threat of loosing their livelihood, freedom to move unfettered is beyond the scope of his executive powers.

Sorry but you are in America where it is fully legal to demand vaccination as a pre-requisite to doing things. We already do that for school. George Washington put a mandate on his troops for smallpox vaccination.

You lost that particular battle long ago.

Make your personal choice, make your choice and then live with your choice.

As for the outcry of infecting others, if masking is effective and you are wearing one, why would you worry about what I do?

Because I'm sick and tired of living in near permanent lockdown because morons won't do simple things to make the situation better.

as you stated, you are not a medically trained person, neither am I. Why should I listen to you?

I made a very clear point about that.

Given that you are a medical science illiterate if you see two competing opinions in the sciences the rational approach is to behave in such a way that if you are wrong there will be LESS NEGATIVE IMPACT.

If you wear a mask and it is ineffective you are only out a mild inconvenience. If you refuse to wear a mask and you are wrong people die.

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[rambot]

For the record, he never told anyone to drink bleach.

You are correct. What he said was WAAAAAY more reasonable and closer to medical advice.

 

[hislegacy]

To make this conclusion you would be better to know what percentage of highly educated medical proffessionals are refusing to take vaccines.

Why? Is the majority always right?

When the majority of medical professionals were endorsing cocaine based cough syrup, were they correct?

I say that as an example, the truth of the matter is that science is not a majority based discipline.

You can easily go back and listen to the experts share what they believe is accurate and just weeks later in come cases it completely changes.

 

[stevil]

Why? Is the majority always right?

I have made no assumptions.

I was responding to Albian's comment
"Probably because such people have studied the matter more closely, taken in findings and results from a variety of different sources, and concluded"

 

[rambot]

Why? Is the majority always right?

Not ironically, in the VAST majority of cases, yes, the majority is always right.

The times when the majority is not right are exceptions that prove the rule as opposed to needing to rewrite the rule.

When the majority of medical professionals were endorsing cocaine based cough syrup, were they correct?

Without seeing the science and research that was employed coming to that conclusion, seems like I couldn't say much other than likely not given that science ALSO is a learning field where new information changes paradigms. But htat doesn't happen that often.

I say that as an example, the truth of the matter is that science is not a majority based discipline.

You say that as a truth but that is a statement comes out of ignorance of how fields of science function, to say nothing of the scientific method and course of researching.
Because it is wrong. I mean, come on; Of COURSE it is.

You can easily go back and listen to the experts share what they believe is accurate and just weeks later in come cases it completely changes.

Yes sir! But not everything. Some pieces of knowledge stand the test of time.

 

[hislegacy]

Sorry but you are in America where it is fully legal to demand vaccination as a pre-requisite to doing things. We already do that for school. George Washington put a mandate on his troops for smallpox vaccination.

You lost that particular battle long ago.

Incorrect for reasons already stated to you. You can repeat it all you want, it still will not be accurate.

Because I'm sick and tired of living in near permanent lockdown because morons won't do simple things to make the situation better.

You should move out of California then. There are many states and countries that are no were near "near permanent lockdown".

Given that you are a medical science illiterate if you see two competing opinions in the sciences the rational approach is to behave in such a way that if you are wrong there will be LESS NEGATIVE IMPACT.

Well, from one medical science illiterate to another - I think you are wrong, just as much as you think I am wrong.

If you wear a mask and it is ineffective you are only out a mild inconvenience. If you refuse to wear a mask and you are wrong people die.

Such high drama in a statement not backed by science. You should come to a state and live in the freedom we enjoy.

Is that clear enough for you?

Perfectly, and I hope I was as clear to you also.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Why? Is the majority always right?

No, but this very thread is predicated on the excellent and correct idea that experts exist. They are highly educated and trained in a specific body of knowledge that is relevant to the problem of healthcare.

Why are highly educated and trained professionals refusing to vaccinate?

Most experts are not only gladly accepting the vaccine, they are actively promoting vaccination as part of our strategy to combat this disease. A few are contrarians.

For people like me, who aren't doctors or epidemiologists or vaccine experts, I listen to the experts. Generally speaking, the consensus view is the correct one. In this particular case, the naysayers have not come up with anything that sways me, but I do keep an open mind and see what they're saying.

When the majority of medical professionals were endorsing cocaine based cough syrup, were they correct?

Were they doing so? Before the FDA, all sorts of things were sold over the counter and advertised as cure-alls. Mrs Winslow's morphine drops to keep kids quiet was probably endorsed by Mrs Winslow, but was it endorsed by 'a majority of medical professionals'?

 

[hislegacy]

I listen to the experts. Generally speaking, the consensus view is the correct one. In this particular case, the naysayers have not come up with anything that sways me, but I do keep an open mind and see what they're saying.

Hey! so do I! We have just come to different conclusions.

 

[rambot]

No, but this very thread is predicated on the excellent and correct idea that experts exist. They are highly educated and trained in a specific body of knowledge that is relevant to the problem of healthcare.

Why are highly educated and trained professionals refusing to vaccinate?

Most experts are not only gladly accepting the vaccine, they are actively promoting vaccination as part of our strategy to combat this disease. A few are contrarians.

For people like me, who aren't doctors or epidemiologists or vaccine experts, I listen to the experts. Generally speaking, the consensus view is the correct one. In this particular case, the naysayers have not come up with anything that sways me, but I do keep an open mind and see what they're saying.



Were they doing so? Before the FDA, all sorts of things were sold over the counter and advertised as cure-alls. Mrs Winslow's morphine drops to keep kids quiet was probably endorsed by Mrs Winslow, but was it endorsed by 'a majority of medical professionals'?

EXCELLENT point.
There was an assumption this was based on medical science.

 

[pacomascarot]

Well, from one medical science illiterate to another - I think you are wrong, just as much as you think I am wrong.

And if I'm wrong the only person who is harmed is me and then only slightly because wearing a mask isn't a serious problem.

If the anti-maskers are wrong PEOPLE DIE.

Such high drama in a statement not backed by science. You should come to a state and live in the freedom we enjoy.

Wide is the path to hell. It's an easy walk full of all sorts of freedom.

 

[pacomascarot]

Hey! so do I! We have just come to different conclusions.

...except you aren't an expert and thus your "conclusions" on matters of healthcare are probably not worth the toilet paper you smear it on.