NT support for a third temple

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
God is going to remove sin at the Second Coming. There will be no more sin period, for 1000 years, after the last of Adam's flesh and blood have left this corruptible body behind.

If you know how sin entered the world, then you know it can leave, when God says it is time.
There will be no more sin after Christ’s final enemy is put under His feet. That last enemy will be death. After that, Christ then will subject Himself to the Father.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Who are we reigning over?
What do you mean? Your idea of reigning and what it entails is off base. We reign with Christ in the sense that we are in His kingdom and serve Him. We are all spiritual soldiers and priests of Christ in His kingdom (2 Tim 2:4, Rev 1:5-6, 1 Peter 2:9) and we reign in that sense.

I'm just trying to figure out where people get ideas that are so contrary to anything I've ever been taught, regardless of the denomination.
From my own study of scripture. Are you being like the Bereans and examining the scriptures for yourself to see if what you've been taught is really true (Acts 17:10-11)?

In Revelation, it was used more than once, as if not figuratively:
" 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended."

It sure sounds rather specific to me.
The number of times it is used is irrelevant. The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation. Does that make it a literal beast? Of course not.

Is this how you interpret scripture? By how things sound to you? Are you making any attempt to use spiritual discernment here? What about what I said about how the term "thousand" is used several times figuratively in other verses? Is that not something you think you should consider?
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,639
12,105
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Aren’t you part of the nation?

A nation, and a tiny part of a nation are totally different things.

Also, I just have one last thing to ask regarding Amil beliefs. Since you believe we're in the Millennium right now, that means the tribulation must be over as well. So if a global government is formed in the near future and a world leader takes control who just happens to have supernatural powers and is able to bring unity to the entire world for those who pledge allegiance to him (but everyone else must be killed), would you go along with the program?
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't deny what you claim. I accept something you deny. I accept a millennial kingdom where every single living human is in His Kingdom.
So, you have mortal flesh and blood humans inheriting the kingdom of God. That directly contradicts what Paul taught.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God is going to remove sin at the Second Coming. There will be no more sin period, for 1000 years, after the last of Adam's flesh and blood have left this corruptible body behind.

If you know how sin entered the world, then you know it can leave, when God says it is time.
Why would God temporarily remove sin only to allow it again when the 1000 years end? That is complete nonsense.

Also, you believe that Zechariah 14 describes the same time period as the thousand years, right? How can you say there would be no sin during that time when it talks about God punishing people for not going up to Jerusalem to worship Him during that time (Zech 14:17-19)? Clearly, people not doing what God commanded them to do would be sinning.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
A nation, and a tiny part of a nation are totally different things.

Also, I just have one last thing to ask regarding Amil beliefs. Since you believe we're in the Millennium right now, that means the tribulation must be over as well. So if a global government is formed in the near future and a world leader takes control who just happens to have supernatural powers and is able to bring unity to the entire world for those who pledge allegiance to him (but everyone else must be killed), would you go along with the program?
I’m not Amil.

But that scenario won’t happen. If it did in some sort of fantasy world, no. I’m against all tyranny.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
And for those who forgot, the thread is about NT evidence for a third temple. There has been nothing given that is even close to concrete.
The Temple will be rebuilt:
Zechariah 8:2 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for Zion, I am burning with jealousy for her.
[the Lord will clear the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43]

Zechariah 8:6 This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.
Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem.
Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?


Zechariah 8:7-8 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.
The Land cleansed, His faithful Christian people gathered and settled in the Land. Back to Jerusalem: the place of origin for our Christian faith.

Zechariah 8:9 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. [Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:-9, +]

Zechariah 8:12 Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbor.
But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts.
For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people.


Zech 8:13 To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!
[His Christian people, Jews and Gentiles, will be an example to the nations]

Zechariah 8:14-15 These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers [Galatians 3:26-29; by faith.] made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid.

Zechariah 8:16-17 This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

Zechariah 8:19 These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace.

Zechariah 8:20-22 These are the words of the Lord; In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favor of the Lord. Zechariah 14:16-21
At His place of residence; the new Temple.

Zechariah 8:23 These are the words of the Lord; In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. Who is a real Jew? Romans 2:29 makes that clear.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
The Temple will be rebuilt:
Zechariah 8:2 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for Zion, I am burning with jealousy for her.
[the Lord will clear the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43]

Zechariah 8:6 This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.
Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem.
Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?


Zechariah 8:7-8 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.
The Land cleansed, His faithful Christian people gathered and settled in the Land. Back to Jerusalem: the place of origin for our Christian faith.

Zechariah 8:9 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. [Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:-9, +]

Zechariah 8:12 Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbor.
But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts.
For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people.


Zech 8:13 To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!
[His Christian people, Jews and Gentiles, will be an example to the nations]

Zechariah 8:14-15 These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers [Galatians 3:26-29; by faith.] made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid.

Zechariah 8:16-17 This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

Zechariah 8:19 These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace.

Zechariah 8:20-22 These are the words of the Lord; In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favor of the Lord. Zechariah 14:16-21
At His place of residence; the new Temple.

Zechariah 8:23 These are the words of the Lord; In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. Who is a real Jew? Romans 2:29 makes that clear.
That’s not from the NT. You’d think with all of that supposed reference to the third temple, there’d be at least some NT references to back that up. But alas…
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Temple will be rebuilt:
Zechariah 8:2 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for Zion, I am burning with jealousy for her.
[the Lord will clear the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43]

Zechariah 8:6 This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.
Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem.
Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?


Zechariah 8:7-8 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.
The Land cleansed, His faithful Christian people gathered and settled in the Land. Back to Jerusalem: the place of origin for our Christian faith.

Zechariah 8:9 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. [Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:-9, +]

Zechariah 8:12 Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbor.
But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts.
For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people.


Zech 8:13 To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!
[His Christian people, Jews and Gentiles, will be an example to the nations]

Zechariah 8:14-15 These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers [Galatians 3:26-29; by faith.] made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid.

Zechariah 8:16-17 This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

Zechariah 8:19 These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace.

Zechariah 8:20-22 These are the words of the Lord; In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favor of the Lord. Zechariah 14:16-21
At His place of residence; the new Temple.

Zechariah 8:23 These are the words of the Lord; In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. Who is a real Jew? Romans 2:29 makes that clear.
I didn't realize that Zechariah was a New Testament book.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hammster
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,639
12,105
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
That’s not from the NT. You’d think with all of that supposed reference to the third temple, there’d be at least some NT references to back that up. But alas…

When the NT was written, the second temple hadn't been destroyed yet, so there would be no reason to talk about a third one. OTOH, the OT is filled with prophesy about the future. The book of Daniel being one of them.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,639
12,105
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I’m not Amil.

But that scenario won’t happen. If it did in some sort of fantasy world, no. I’m against all tyranny.

From what you said in post #83, I got the impression you were:
This is the millennium. The tribulation happened in the first century, just like Jesus said it would. And John concurred (of course).

I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
— Revelation 1:9

Since you said Tribulation happened in the first century, I was curious about how you'd view it, and how you'd deal with it, if it turned out to be happening in the near future. But you call it a "fantasy world", so I take it that you don't believe it will happen. Keep your eyes open for it, because it's shaping up to take place.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
That’s not from the NT. You’d think with all of that supposed reference to the third temple, there’d be at least some NT references to back that up. But alas…
But the New Testament does refer to a new Temple:
2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 11:1-3, Acts of the Apostles 15:16-17, All are in an end times context.
Many other prophesies about future events cannot happen without a new Temple in Jerusalem.
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If you can name one nation that doesn't even have even one believer in it, then you can claim that there are nations that are still deceived.

If you can't, then you have your answer.

Covenent with the living God was once restricted to 1 tiny nation and the rest of the nations were wholly deceived.
Such is no longer the case.
People from ALL NATIONS are in Covenant with the Living God today.
Not one nation is deceived.


Your idea of---so that he can deceive the nations no more---equals any nation that has at least one believer. Let's test that.

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

What do you do with this passage then? Let's assume a nation only ends up with one believer during your proposed thousand years, who is it that satan deceives in that nation? The one that became a believer during the thousand years, or the rest of that nation that remained deceived during the entire thousand years? If someone remains deceived during the entire thousand years, how does it make sense that satan sets out to deceive someone already deceived rather than someone no longer deceived?

Take Eve, for instance. Was she already deceived before satan deceived her? Whatever logic you apply here should equally apply to Revelation 20:8. Does satan set out to deceive someone already deceived? Or does he set out to deceive someone no longer deceived?

Per Premil, or at least my version, the nations that were deceived before the thousand years, are no longer deceived during the thousand years, but become deceived once again after the thousand years.

Per Amil who is it Amils think are deceived after the thousand years? Do Amils think it are the ones that remained deceived during the thousand years? Since Amils take the thousand years to be the here and now, let's assume this thousand years ends tomorrow, thus satan is loosed. Who is it that Amils see being the ones satan deceives, the number which are as the sand of the sea? Someone already deceived, or someone no longer deceived? Don't forget about Eve. Was she already deceived before satan deceived her? Thus, satan set out to deceive someone already deceived. Or did satan instead set out to deceive someone not deceived?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
When the NT was written, the second temple hadn't been destroyed yet, so there would be no reason to talk about a third one. OTOH, the OT is filled with prophesy about the future. The book of Daniel being one of them.
So the prophesies were about the second temple. Got it.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
From what you said in post #83, I got the impression you were:


Since you said Tribulation happened in the first century, I was curious about how you'd view it, and how you'd deal with it, if it turned out to be happening in the near future. But you call it a "fantasy world", so I take it that you don't believe it will happen. Keep your eyes open for it, because it's shaping up to take place.
Do you know how many “near future” predictions there have been?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
But the New Testament does refer to a new Temple:
2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 11:1-3, Acts of the Apostles 15:16-17, All are in an end times context.
Many other prophesies about future events cannot happen without a new Temple in Jerusalem.
First reference is the temple that was around when Paul wrote this (which we’ve gone over before). 2nd reference was the existing temple. The third reference was a tabernacle. There was no temple in David’s lifetime.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.