Why are highly educated and trained professionals refusing to vaccinate?

[KCfromNC]

In the letter, she gives contact information (that is redacted in the online copy) so that the CDC can contact her to discuss the patient accounts in more detail. To this point, they have ignored her concerns.

None of that changes the fact that a letter claiming some sort of statistical analysis doesn't even have an exact count of the number of patients being studied.

Lots of things in this pandemic don't pass a basic smell test. As just one of countless examples, wearing a mask to your table in a restaurant as you walk from the front door to your table and then taking it off while sitting at your table. But people do it en masse because "The SCIENCE™!" says they must.


No one is immune from confirmation bias. Not me. Not you. You would be wise to remember that.

Hey look, attempting to change the subject and make this post about me personally rather than the topic. I wonder why there would be a need to do this if there was a legitimate answer to my concerns.

 

[renniks]

Perhaps that’s more about control. When I was in the military there was no option about taking mandatory preventive inoculations.

Of course it's all about control... not just for the military but all vaccine mandates.

 

[hislegacy]

I guess random nurses don't set public health policy for the nation.

Public Health Policy?

When did the Government gain the right and authority to mandate medical procedures such as vaccinations?

There are things that are as deadly and in some cases more deadly than Covid, the science shows it and has proven it. Yet the politicians are silent, no mandates, no forced compliance or you loose your rights to go to public restaurants, freedom of travel and sure not loosing your job over it.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Public Health Policy?

When did the Government gain the right and authority to mandate medical procedures such as vaccinations?

With respect to the army, 1777.

“The small pox has made such Head in every Quarter that I find it impossible to keep it from spreading thro’ the whole Army in the natural way. I have therefore determined, not only to innoculate all the Troops now here, that have not had it, but shall order Docr. Shippen to innoculate the Recruits as fast as they come in to Philadelphia.”

More generally, "All 50 states have legislation requiring specified vaccines for students."

 

[pacomascarot]

When did the Government gain the right and authority to mandate medical procedures such as vaccinations?

Probably about the time George Washington mandated vaccines for the Revolutionary Army Troops. But it was helped in 1905 SCOTUS decision Jacobson v Massachusetts

There are things that are as deadly and in some cases more deadly than Covid, the science shows it and has proven it.

The morons who spent their lives studying infectious diseases also look at how easily transmissible a disease is, even if it is less lethal than Ebola.

 

[probinson]

Probably about the time George Washington mandated vaccines for the Revolutionary Army Troops. But it was helped in 1905 SCOTUS decision Jacobson v Massachusetts

Please remember that this case was cited in Buck v. Bell to justify forced sterilization. Specifically, in the ruling in 1927, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes concluded;

“Society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v Massachusetts, 197 US 11. Three generations of imbeciles are enough”

Jacobson v Massachusetts: It’s Not Your Great-Great-Grandfather’s Public Health Law​

Be very, very careful what you wish for.

 

[probinson]

None of that changes the fact that a letter claiming some sort of statistical analysis doesn't even have an exact count of the number of patients being studied.

Perhaps if the CDC would contact her, as she requested, they could discuss the cases in more detail, as she said.

Hey look, attempting to change the subject and make this post about me personally rather than the topic.

Nope. Simply pointing out that no one is immune to confirmation bias. Including you. And me. And everyone else on the planet.

I wonder why there would be a need to do this if there was a legitimate answer to my concerns.

Not sure why anyone should take your concerns seriously when you seem so dismissive of the ICU physician's concerns.

 

[pacomascarot]

Please remember that this case was cited in Buck v. Bell to justify forced sterilization. Specifically, in the ruling in 1927, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes concluded;

“Society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v Massachusetts, 197 US 11. Three generations of imbeciles are enough”

Jacobson v Massachusetts: It’s Not Your Great-Great-Grandfather’s Public Health Law​

Be very, very careful what you wish for.

Yeah, sure, that's why we have forced sterilizations at public schools who also require vaccinations as a requirement for attendance. I was force-sterilized in first grade between PE class (we did parachute that day) and math class.

 

[hislegacy]

More generally, "All 50 states have legislation requiring specified vaccines for students."

Those are individual state mandates concerning public schools. I am speaking Federal oversight over the entire nation. Two different things.

Probably about the time George Washington mandated vaccines for the Revolutionary Army Troops. But it was helped in 1905 SCOTUS decision Jacobson v Massachusetts

The morons who spent their lives studying infectious diseases also look at how easily transmissible a disease is, even if it is less lethal than Ebola.

Directly from your link:

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine.
​

It does not seem to address what I am speaking of.

Joe moved without the Courts, without the Legislative Branch by Presidential Edict and forced the entire country to capitulate to directives set out by him. His Edict is effecting businesses, and private citizens, forcing them to capitulate to his demands.

That is not the move of a President - that is the move of a dictator.

 

[probinson]

Yeah, sure, that's why we have forced sterilizations at public schools who also require vaccinations as a requirement for attendance. I was force-sterilized in first grade between PE class (we did parachute that day) and math class.

Well OK, but those who disregard history do so at their own peril.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It does not seem to address what I am speaking of.

Joe moved without the Courts, without the Legislative Branch by Presidential Edict and forced the entire country to capitulate to directives set out by him. His Edict is effecting businesses, and private citizens, forcing them to capitulate to his demands.

That is not the move of a President - that is the move of a dictator.

Which presidential edict is that? What are you speaking of? There is a rule on workplace safety moving through OSHA, but nothing has been enacted so far as I know. (Apart from the military, but we do know Joe is CINC.)

As for the medical workers in the OP, these are healthcare and hospital businesses making their own decisions, so far as I know.

 

[hislegacy]

Which presidential edict is that? What are you speaking of? There is a rule on workplace safety moving through OSHA, but nothing has been enacted so far as I know. (Apart from the military, but we do know Joe is CINC.)

As for the medical workers in the OP, these are health and hospital businesses making their own decisions, so far as I know.

Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees | The White House

And now there is this:

The question became all the more relevant a day after her tweet, when President Biden ordered workers at companies with 100 or more employees to get vaccinated or undergo regular testing. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the federal agency overseeing workplace safety, is still working out the details but is expected to issue a rule later this fall.
​

Not Congress - not the courts - but the President by Executive Order (edict)

 

[probinson]

What's really been interesting to me as these mandates have been introduced is how quickly conservatives and liberals have switched roles on organized labor. Historically, it has been the liberals that have been on the side of organized labor and conservatives on the side of corporations, but that's all changed now. Liberals now cheer when hospitals fire nurses while conservatives fight for their right to work.

COVID didn't change people's character and perspective. It revealed it.

 

[hislegacy]

Here is more of what I am referring to:

President Biden’s sweeping COVID-19 vaccine mandates affecting federal employees and private sector workplaces with 100 or more people have been praised as an example of “leadership” and criticized as “un-American.”

Legal challenges are forthcoming, both around the scope of the president’s authority and claims of religious liberty, according to Wendy Parmet, a leading public health law expert and director of Northeastern’s Center for Health Policy and Law.

Biden clearly has the legal standing to require federal workers and contractors that do business with the government to get immunized. “The president is the boss of the federal workforce and he sets the rules,” Parmet says.

Whether that authority extends to the healthcare arena is somewhat less certain. Biden ordered the Department of Health and Human Services to require

Biden has the legal standing to require federal workers and contractors that do business with the government to get immunized. “The president is the boss of the federal workforce and he sets the rules,” Parmet says. Photo by Matthew Modoono/Northeastern University
​

Add into that every private company in the US that has 100 employees or more -

​

 

[pacomascarot]

It does not seem to address what I am speaking of.

Joe moved without the Courts, without the Legislative Branch by Presidential Edict and forced the entire country to capitulate to directives set out by him. His Edict is effecting businesses, and private citizens, forcing them to capitulate to his demands.

Then you'll be busy starting the process of getting this reviewed by SCOTUS? Here's a prediction: they'll say it is OK.

That is not the move of a President - that is the move of a dictator.

You mean like the horrible dictator George Washington?

 

[pacomascarot]

Well OK, but those who disregard history do so at their own peril.

Yes, the horrors of public vaccination. I really miss the days when little kids could become paralyzed for life because they went to the public pool on the wrong day. The iron lung industry really took a hit with the polio vaccine. That's just messed up tossing all those people out of work.

And smallpox! That was good too.

 

[essentialsaltes]

to get vaccinated or undergo regular testing.​

Oh, so it's not a vaccine mandate. Cool.

(also, Congress passed the Occupational Safety and Health Act, outlining the scope of the powers of the agency it created, in 1970. Noted communist dictator Richard Nixon signed it into law.)

 

[pacomascarot]

Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees | The White House

And now there is this:

The question became all the more relevant a day after her tweet, when President Biden ordered workers at companies with 100 or more employees to get vaccinated or undergo regular testing. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the federal agency overseeing workplace safety, is still working out the details but is expected to issue a rule later this fall.
​

Not Congress - not the courts - but the President by Executive Order (edict)

What's the worst part of mandates for vaccination? Is it that it might help other people who didn't earn your help? Or is it that it might stop more people from dying? I can see that both of those are pretty bad outcomes.

 

[pacomascarot]

Of course it's all about control... not just for the military but all vaccine mandates.

It is all about control. Some people are natural dictators and want people to do things for other people! It's shocking to think that that kind of thinking has invaded our great nation. I once read about some dude who wanted people to take care of the POOR and those who don't have stuff! I mean how messed up is that?

America is dedicated to freedom. That's why E Pluribus Unum was chosen as a motto. It's Ancient Sumerian for "Do what thou wilt".

 

[renniks]

America is dedicated to freedom. That's why E Pluribus Unum was chosen as a motto. It's Ancient Sumerian for "Do what thou wilt".

Which is apparently no longer allowed.