John 3:16-18

[HIM]

I was being sarcastic. It points out the fact that amateur "translators" put their own spin on Scripture. There is no direct correspondence between Koine Greek (or Hebrew or Aramaic) and English. We have well-qualified translators that convert the early languages into our own, and it's never as simple as a word-for-word, direct correspondence.

"Believe into Him" means zilch. How does this sound: John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am into my Father, and ye into me, and I into you" ?

Once again wrong Greek word in the original so your point is not relevant

 

[Religiot]

I was being sarcastic. It points out the fact that amateur "translators" put their own spin on Scripture. There is no direct correspondence between Koine Greek (or Hebrew or Aramaic) and English. We have well-qualified translators that convert the early languages into our own, and it's never as simple as a word-for-word, direct correspondence.

"Believe into Him" means zilch. How does this sound: John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am into my Father, and ye into me, and I into you" ?

Or "one can not be into Christ and He into us unless we Believe into Him into the first place."

"Into" and "in" are entirely different words.

I accept the overwhelming proof of vocabulary and meaning determined by serious, qualified translators over unqualified people who post personal interpretations.

I, on the contrary, accept as proof the meaning given to me by the Holy Spirit against all so called experts: please remember, the experts always get it wrong when it comes to God, always.

 

[HIM]

Why runaway? why not just accept the truth of a thing?

Amen!
I don't think it is always easy for us my friend though it should be. May the Lord have mercy on us all.

 

[pescador]

Once again wrong Greek word in the original so your point is not relevant

Try reading my post and understanding what I wrote before commenting on it.

You have the original texts? You should announce that to the world, since nobody has ever found the original texts except you.

Again (and again and again and again) I believe the results of committees of qualified translators over self-appointed amateurs who lack the qualifications and training. They devote their lives to bringing us the most accurate translations.

 

[HIM]

I, on the contrary, accept as proof the meaning given to me by the Holy Spirit against all so called experts: please remember, the experts always get it wrong when it comes to God, always.

Reminds me of something given to me a while ago. " Once we realize we don't know anything then we can learn something"

 

[HIM]

You have the original texts? You should announce that to the world, since nobody has ever found the original texts except you.

Again (and again and again and again) I believe the results of committees of qualified translators over self-appointed amateurs who lack the qualifications and training. They devote their lives to bringing us the most accurate translations.

And yet no real argument that speaks contrary to the OP.
Incidentally you don't know me or of any qualifications I have.
Papers on a wall, framed so all can see, look at me, look at me.

 

[pescador]

Reminds me of something given to me a while ago. " Once we realize we don't know anything then we can learn something"

Whatever..

Does this also apply to yourself? Do you admit that you don't know anything about the principles of Bible translation?

 

[pescador]

Here is John 3:16-19 in the NET 2.1 (a great translation) with my emphases. Notice the difference between "in" and "into".

For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil."

Or perhaps you think this is better...

For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes into him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son in the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes into him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed into the name of the one and only Son of God. Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come in the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil."

believes into him; send his Son in the world; The one who believes into him; because he has not believed into the name of the one and only Son; the light has come in the world

Sounds illogical and bizarre...

I'm leaving this bizarre conversation. Read your Bible!

 

[Freth]

I accept the overwhelming proof of vocabulary and meaning determined by serious, qualified translators over unqualified people who post personal interpretations.

Who decides who is qualified and where does that authority to decide come from? Where did it originate?

Jesus wasn't there after the crucifixion. How did the apostles remember His teachings? John 14:26 tells us that the Holy Spirit taught them all things and gave remembrance. When they were preaching and writing their books, where did the inspiration come from? The book of Acts tells us that the apostles received directly from Jesus through the Holy Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 1:1-2, Acts of the Apostles 2:4).

Jesus Himself promises to give the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks.

Luke 11:9-13 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
​

If we are a royal priesthood, each of us must be given discernment.

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.​

 

[HIM]

Here is John 3:16-19 in the NET 2.1 (a great translation) with my emphases. Notice the difference between "in" and "into".

For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil."

Or perhaps you think this is better...

For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes into him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son in the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes into him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed into the name of the one and only Son of God. Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come in the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil."

believes into him; send his Son in the world; The one who believes into him; because he has not believed into the name of the one and only Son; the light has come in the world

Yes because contextually INTO fits with the rest of the Gospel John, For He is the vine and we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. Jo 15:5

We can't be a branch unless we are in and of the vine. We can't be of the vine unless we placed into it by our belief.

The prayer of a righteous man availeth much. So it is written...

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
(Joh 17:20-23 KJV)

We can't be in Christ and God without first being place into by our faith. Take care.

 

[HIM]

Who decides who is qualified and where does that authority to decide come from? Where did it originate?

Jesus wasn't there after the crucifixion. How did the apostles remember His teachings? John 14:26 tells us that the Holy Spirit gave remembrance. When they were preaching and writing their books, where did the inspiration come from? The book of Acts tells us that the apostles received directly from Jesus through the Holy Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 1:1-2, Acts of the Apostles 2:4).

Jesus Himself promises to give the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks.

Luke 11:9-13 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
​

If we are a royal priesthood, each of us must be given discernment.

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.​

The learned; Scribes, Pharisees, the High Priest, His council and Sadducees are the ones who refused Christ and His words and had Him crucified. These are they that the people looked up to and trusted.

 

[Freth]

The learned; Scribes, Pharisees, the High Priest, His council and Sadducees are the ones who refused Christ and His words and had Him crucified. These are they that the people looked up to and trusted.

This is what I was pointing at, although I didn't come out and say it; when I said notice the absence of the word scholar (or Biblical equivalent).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Though εἰς can be translated "in" it shouldn't be because contextually INTO fits with the rest of the Gospel, For He is the vine and we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. Jo 15:5

Well we wouldn’t abide into Christ or remain into Christ. I have to agree with pescador. The use of “into” isn’t grammatically correct and the use of “in” doesn’t change the meaning of the message.

 

[HIM]

This is what I was pointing at, although I didn't come out and say it.

I knew that Freth. I guess I should of said it before went on a rant lol. Sorry...

 

[Freth]

I knew that Freth. I guess I should of said it before went on a rant lol. Sorry...

I'm glad you said it.

 

[HIM]

Well we wouldn’t abide into Christ or remain into Christ. I have to agree with pescador. The use of “into” isn’t grammatically correct and the use of “in” doesn’t change the meaning of the message.

No you are right we abide in Christ but first we have be place into Christ to Abide in Christ. Likewise We have to be placed into Christ to remain in Christ.

 

[Freth]

This goes along with my previous post and the current debate over the word in vs into:

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So how does this sound to you: "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art into me, and I into thee, that they also may be one into us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou into me, that they may be made perfect into one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

Why do you think that every single English translation, from the earliest to the most recent, has the word "in"?

It sounds awkward to replace the English word with "into", which is why you stand alone in your (mis)translation.

The words “in” in John 17 are a different Greek word than what is used in John 3:16-18 but I do agree with you about the grammatically incorrect use of the word “into” in John 3:16-18.

 

[Religiot]

Reminds me of something given to me a while ago. " Once we realize we don't know anything then we can learn something"

I have learned, with clarity, that the more I learn the more I realize how little I knew; and the more I learn the easier it becomes for me to learn more: that fact has always impressed me, it causes me to wonder at God, how He made us contrary to beasts, that is spiritually, for trained beasts can be seen to plateau in knowledge, and to be adversely affected by human training; but man, on the other hand, can be observed to grow in knowledge, exponentially, with the only discernible plateau being the result of the decay of death.

To reject knowledge is unnatural for man, infact, it is evil, and will ultimately result in rejection from God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No you are right we abide in Christ but first we have be place into Christ to Abide in Christ. Likewise We have to be placed into Christ to remain in Christ.

Well I would definitely agree that we must be grafted into the vine and grammatically speaking that usage would be correct but I don’t see that as being the case in John 3:16-18. We’re dealing with a Greek to English translation and the goal is to translate it so that it is grammatically correct in the English language. The term “believes in Him” is not referring to a grafting into Him it’s referring to maintaining a current status or present state of belief in Him.