SDA Is it time for the church to remove Ellen White from fundamental beliefs

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tall73

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The Seventh-day Adventist Church Fundamental belief #18 indicates that the writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority."

https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

The Gift of Prophecy
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)


However, Ellen White herself emphasized that her writings point to the Bible.


The Lord desires you to study your Bibles. He has not given any additional light to take the place of His Word. This light is to bring confused minds to His Word which, if eaten and digested, is as the life-blood of the soul. Then good works will be seen as light shining in darkness. Letters and Manuscripts Volume 16 16LtMs, Lt 130, 1901, par. 1

You are not familiar with the Scriptures. If you had made God's Word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, you would not have needed the Testimonies. It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God's inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration which you had neglected to obey, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings.
Testimonies for the Church page 92 CCH 92.5

In public labor do not make prominent, and quote, that which Sister White has written, as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies. Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God. A “Thus saith the Lord,” is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people. Let none be educated to look to Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White. The words given through the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, should be authority, and let all be educated to look to the divine Teacher. Attract minds to Jesus and His words. 9LtMs, Lt 11, 1894, par. 4

But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible. When you make the Bible your food, your meat and your drink, when you make its principles the elements of your character, you will know better how to receive counsel from God. I exalt the precious Word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, “Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that.” Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands. Letters and Manuscripts Volume 16 16LtMs, Ms 43, 1901, par. 26

Would it be best for the church to remove belief in Ellen White from the fundamental beliefs?

And if the Scriptures are sufficient, and the standard by which everything must be tested, is it necessary to have the writings of Ellen White to point to the Scriptures?


346137_5ecb5ad895e3344068517fbd8029e955.jpeg


 

spiritfilledjm

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I'm not SDA but honestly, no, I don't think so. For one, the writings of White formulated the SDA church. That's not to say that they didn't base their doctrine on what they think the Bible teaches, but there are plenty of writings by various different people in various different denominations that the denominations have fallen back on when it came to formulating what they believe. As long as SDA's aren't saying that White's writings are actually equal to the Bible (like Mormons and others have done with their church fathers writings.) then there is no reason to remove it.
 
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Leaf473

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The Seventh-day Adventist Church Fundamental belief #18 indicates that the writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority."

https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

The Gift of Prophecy
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)


However, Ellen White herself emphasized that her writings point to the Bible.


The Lord desires you to study your Bibles. He has not given any additional light to take the place of His Word. This light is to bring confused minds to His Word which, if eaten and digested, is as the life-blood of the soul. Then good works will be seen as light shining in darkness. Letters and Manuscripts Volume 16 16LtMs, Lt 130, 1901, par. 1

You are not familiar with the Scriptures. If you had made God's Word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, you would not have needed the Testimonies. It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God's inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration which you had neglected to obey, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings.
Testimonies for the Church page 92 CCH 92.5

In public labor do not make prominent, and quote, that which Sister White has written, as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies. Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God. A “Thus saith the Lord,” is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people. Let none be educated to look to Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White. The words given through the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, should be authority, and let all be educated to look to the divine Teacher. Attract minds to Jesus and His words. 9LtMs, Lt 11, 1894, par. 4

But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible. When you make the Bible your food, your meat and your drink, when you make its principles the elements of your character, you will know better how to receive counsel from God. I exalt the precious Word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, “Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that.” Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands. Letters and Manuscripts Volume 16 16LtMs, Ms 43, 1901, par. 26

Would it be best for the church to remove belief in Ellen White from the fundamental beliefs?

And if the Scriptures are sufficient, and the standard by which everything must be tested, is it necessary to have the writings of Ellen White to point to the Scriptures?


346137_5ecb5ad895e3344068517fbd8029e955.jpeg


What is "prophetic authority", and are they saying she was a prophet like Isaiah?
 
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tall73

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What is "prophetic authority", and are they saying she was a prophet like Isaiah?

Here is a denominational explanation of the belief:

What Adventists Believe about the Prophetic Gift - Adventist.org

Here is a discussion of how the latest change in the wording came about from an official Adventist publication.

What Got Changed in Fundamental Beliefs

Number 18, “The Gift of Prophecy”: Some felt that the church’s prior statement gave Adventist Church cofounder Ellen G. White authority comparable to that of the Bible. Changes have been made to remove this potential ambiguity. White herself emphasizes that her authority is subject to the Scriptures. The new wording of this statement does not in any way diminish the church’s understanding of the authority of the Bible or the prophetic authority of Ellen G. White.

This was how the previous version of the fundamental belief read:

The Gift Of Prophecy

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Support is found in these Bible passages: Joel 2:28,29; Acts 2:14-21; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10.
 
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tall73

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Are there particular issues among her writings that are motivation for their removal from focus?

I have not been in the Adventist church for some time, but from speaking to friends or family who are, I would say that depends on who you ask. The official beliefs still place focus on her writings. Many Adventists do as well.

There is a minority of Adventists who do not. The reasons may vary. Some see issues with her writings, some just see them as not necessary, or misunderstood by outsiders, etc. Some don't object to them, but don't spend time to read them either.

From one of the quotes above:

In public labor do not make prominent, and quote, that which Sister White has written, as authority to sustain your positions.


This makes sense because non-Adventists would not consider her an authority. With the advent of the internet making it easier to read Ellen White's writings, and critiques of her writing by those opposed to her, some see her writings as a liability.
 
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spiritfilledjm

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Here is a denominational explanation of the belief:

What Adventists Believe about the Prophetic Gift - Adventist.org

Here is a discussion of how the latest change in the wording came about from an official Adventist publication.

What Got Changed in Fundamental Beliefs

Number 18, “The Gift of Prophecy”: Some felt that the church’s prior statement gave Adventist Church cofounder Ellen G. White authority comparable to that of the Bible. Changes have been made to remove this potential ambiguity. White herself emphasizes that her authority is subject to the Scriptures. The new wording of this statement does not in any way diminish the church’s understanding of the authority of the Bible or the prophetic authority of Ellen G. White.

This was how the previous version of the fundamental belief read:

The Gift Of Prophecy

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Support is found in these Bible passages: Joel 2:28,29; Acts 2:14-21; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10.

Oof. Yeah, that does read like they were giving her writings a bit too much credence in equal weight with the Bible.

The issue with prophecy, and calling her writings prophetic, is that a lot of folks feel that prophecy was always only meant to be scripture essentially, that the prophecy is a literal continuing of the Word of God as in the Bible. That is a discussion for another time but be that as it may, it is right that they do differentiate and make it clear that White's writings are not considered by the SDA as a continuation of the Word of God.
 
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spiritfilledjm

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From one of the quotes above:

In public labor do not make prominent, and quote, that which Sister White has written, as authority to sustain your positions.


This makes sense because non-Adventists would not consider her an authority. With the advent of the internet making it easier to read Ellen White's writings, and critiques of her writing by those opposed to her, some see her writings as a liability.

That kinda feels like the point of these quotes, is that it is to help those who are SDA in their "public labor" and advising them how to address anything with White and her writings when witnessing really.
 
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tall73

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What is "prophetic authority", and are they saying she was a prophet like Isaiah?

Here is what she said about herself:

Weak and trembling, I arose at three o'clock in the morning to write to you. God was speaking through clay. You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision—the precious rays of light shining from the throne. {5T 67.2}

The statement which you quote from “Testimony,” No. 31, that “in these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision—the precious rays of light shining from the throne,” is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ.
RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1

Some have stumbled over the fact that I said I did not claim to be a prophet and they have asked, Why is this?

I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am the Lord's messenger; that he called me in my youth to be his messenger, to receive his word, and to give a clear and decided message in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be his messenger. "Your work," he instructed me, "is to bear my word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make my Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and my power shall be with you.

"Be not afraid of man, for my shield shall protect you. It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances. Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil."

Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies. {RH, July 26, 1906}


 
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ChetSinger

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..Would it be best for the church to remove belief in Ellen White from the fundamental beliefs?
I believe so. But I don't think that will happen.

And if the Scriptures are sufficient, and the standard by which everything must be tested, is it necessary to have the writings of Ellen White to point to the Scriptures?
I think the scriptures are sufficient. But they're best illuminated by an understanding of the culture that created them. And that's something that the SDA doesn't seem to me to appreciate, and sometimes even actively avoids, because such understanding can conflict with Ellen White's words.
 
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Ellen G white's teachings = A works based salvation.
I shan't go into some of her false teachings at this time.

Let's just say that, those who are meant to escape her clutches, will be brought to light at the appointed time, despite the fact that, once one becomes an Adventist, it may become extremely difficult for them to come out, as they might get hit by teachings such as, the National Sunday Law, the Pope and the mark of the beast.
 
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The Seventh-day Adventist Church Fundamental belief #18 indicates that the writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority."

https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

The Gift of Prophecy
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

It does raise the question of whether the Bible says that valid prophets (like Nathan and Agabus and all those in 1 Cor 14 -- or Anna in the temple at Christ's dedication or Philip's four daughters, or Deborah in the book of Judges) should be speaking with "prophetic authority".

If the Bible does not support the practice of prophets speaking with prophetic authority then maybe the SDA church will be looking to make a change.

As to what the Bible says a prophet IS --
Numbers 12:
6 He said,“Now hear My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, will make Myself known to him in a vision.
I will speak with him in a dream.
 
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tall73

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It does raise the question of whether the Bible says that valid prophets (like Nathan and Agabus and all those in 1 Cor 14 -- or Anna in the temple at Christ's dedication or Philip's four daughters, or Deborah in the book of Judges) should be speaking with "prophetic authority".

Sure they should. And people can today if they are prophets who pass the test.

If the Bible does not support the practice of prophets speaking with prophetic authority then maybe the SDA church will be looking to make a change.

The Bible supports the practice of prophets speaking with prophetic authority, as it is a Biblical gift.

But this is about whether Ellen White should be in the fundamental beliefs. There is a long history in the denomination of people indicating that acceptance of Ellen White's writings should not be a condition of fellowship with the church. And Ellen White seemed to indicate that at least for new people considering the message her writings should not be a test.

Moreover, she pointed to the Bible. We have a number of posters from the Adventist church here who also say that we should look to the Bible, and not Ellen White. And they often do not want to discuss Ellen White.

But currently the Baptismal Vows in the Church Manual include acceptance of the fundamental beliefs, which includes Ellen White's writings.

https://www.adventist.org/wp-conten...-day-adventist-church-manual_2015_updated.pdf


baptismla vows.png
 
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SabbathBlessings

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[Staff edited quote]


It’s always more compelling to provide scripture references where you disagree than to just make blanket accusations. Please provide through scripture where you feel there are errors.

It’s amazing the war that is going on against the SDA church who still believes and teaches the commandments of God. We were warned and boy is it coming true. An EGW thread or mention daily, but for some reason when asked, no one wants to discuss scripture.
 
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The Liturgist

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It’s always more compelling to provide scripture references where you disagree than just to make blanket accusations. Please provide through scripture where you feel there are errors.

The errors in the Great Controversy are historical. She got basic historical facts about the history of the Roman Empire and the Catholic Church completely wrong, and I have already previously explained in detail the errors that she made.

It’s amazing the war that is going on against the SDA church who still believes and teaches the commandments of God. We were warned and boy is it coming true. An EGW thread or mention daily, but for some reason when asked, no one wants to discuss scripture.

That is just not true. I have no bone to pick with Adventists. An SDA member just enabled me to change my faith icon to Generic Orthodox Christian, for which I am extremely thankful, and recently @BobRyan and I have been on the same side in several debates, and I greatly enjoy fellowship with him.

Furthermore, the issues in this thread are not of a scriptural nature, but relate to the writings of EGW, her instructions to the SDA church, and historical issues, so there is no dispute over sacred scripture in this respect.

Many churches get exposed to severe criticism on a regular basis on CF.com. Any Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or liberal Christian can attest to that. Although I historically have not considered myself a liberal Christian, I recently realized that they probably get the most abuse on this site, and I find myself standing with them simply because I see it being of an ad hominem nature. For example, regardless of what one believes about the role of women in the church, my friend @Paidiske , who is a female Anglican priest in Australia, has experienced unfair personal attacks which are unwarranted, because she is one of the nicest members on the site.
 
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The errors in the Great Controversy are historical. She got basic historical facts about the history of the Roman Empire and the Catholic Church completely wrong, and I have already previously explained in detail the errors that she made.



That is just not true. I have no bone to pick with Adventists. An SDA member just enabled me to change my faith icon to Generic Orthodox Christian, for which I am extremely thankful, and recently @BobRyan and I have been on the same side in several debates, and I greatly enjoy fellowship with him.

Furthermore, the issues in this thread are not of a scriptural nature, but relate to the writings of EGW, her instructions to the SDA church, and historical issues, so there is no dispute over sacred scripture in this respect.

Many churches get exposed to severe criticism on a regular basis on CF.com. Any Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or liberal Christian can attest to that. Although I historically have not considered myself a liberal Christian, I recently realized that they probably get the most abuse on this site, and I find myself standing with them simply because I see it being of an ad hominem nature. For example, regardless of what one believes about the role of women in the church, my friend @Paidiske , who is a female Anglican priest in Australia, has experienced unfair personal attacks which are unwarranted, because she is one of the nicest members on the site.

You say you have no bone to pick with the Adventist church, yet you regularly make statements that the founder of the Adventist church is a false prophet so that statement seems disingenuous.

I was hoping you could provide through scripture what you disagree with instead of restating your opinion again. I disagree that it is not about scriptures when you accuse someone of of teaching errors its only fair to back that up though scriptures.

Doesn’t seem like you’re that interested in talking scriptures so take care.
 
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Leaf473

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Here is a denominational explanation of the belief:

What Adventists Believe about the Prophetic Gift - Adventist.org

Here is a discussion of how the latest change in the wording came about from an official Adventist publication.

What Got Changed in Fundamental Beliefs

Number 18, “The Gift of Prophecy”: Some felt that the church’s prior statement gave Adventist Church cofounder Ellen G. White authority comparable to that of the Bible. Changes have been made to remove this potential ambiguity. White herself emphasizes that her authority is subject to the Scriptures. The new wording of this statement does not in any way diminish the church’s understanding of the authority of the Bible or the prophetic authority of Ellen G. White.

This was how the previous version of the fundamental belief read:

The Gift Of Prophecy

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Support is found in these Bible passages: Joel 2:28,29; Acts 2:14-21; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10.

Here is what she said about herself:

Weak and trembling, I arose at three o'clock in the morning to write to you. God was speaking through clay. You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision—the precious rays of light shining from the throne. {5T 67.2}

The statement which you quote from “Testimony,” No. 31, that “in these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision—the precious rays of light shining from the throne,” is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ.
RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1

Some have stumbled over the fact that I said I did not claim to be a prophet and they have asked, Why is this?

I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am the Lord's messenger; that he called me in my youth to be his messenger, to receive his word, and to give a clear and decided message in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be his messenger. "Your work," he instructed me, "is to bear my word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make my Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and my power shall be with you.

"Be not afraid of man, for my shield shall protect you. It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances. Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil."

Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies. {RH, July 26, 1906}


Thanks for the info!

I grew up pentecostal, and I'm fine with people claiming to have the gift of prophecy. But I think it's a fairly common gift, if I remember right Paul says it's something we should all seek.

If Ellen is claiming that kind of gift of prophecy, then it seems like she would just be one person among many. If she had the gift of prophecy, then it must be available today. Then, imo, it follows that it must be common.

If Ellen is one person among many, no reason to make a special mention of her, imo. So my answer to the question in the OP is Yes.

It seems like this would be a good time to start making changes because of the Internet. Other groups that claim some sort of special revelation to their founders, such as the Jehovah's witnesses or the LDS, are also running into difficulties from information being so easy to pass around today.

Again, the above is my opinion.
 
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Leaf473

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Sure they should. And people can today if they are prophets who pass the test.



The Bible supports the practice of prophets speaking with prophetic authority, as it is a Biblical gift.

But this is about whether Ellen White should be in the fundamental beliefs. There is an long history in the denomination of people indicating that acceptance of Ellen White's writings should not be a condition of fellowship with the church. And Ellen White seemed to indicate that at least for new people considering the message her writings should not be a test.

Moreover, she pointed to the Bible. We have a number of posters from the Adventist church here who also say that we should look to the Bible, and not Ellen White. And they often do not want to discuss Ellen White.

But currently the Baptismal Vows in the Church Manual include acceptance of the fundamental beliefs, which includes Ellen White's writings.

https://www.adventist.org/wp-conten...-day-adventist-church-manual_2015_updated.pdf


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Well, I definitely disagree with that, if I understand what they're saying.

I think a person is to be baptized into Christ, not into a particular denomination,
signified by affirming the fundamental beliefs of that denomination.
 
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Leaf473

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It’s always more compelling to provide scripture references where you disagree than to just make blanket accusations. Please provide through scripture where you feel there are errors.

It’s amazing the war that is going on against the SDA church who still believes and teaches the commandments of God. We were warned and boy is it coming true. An EGW thread or mention daily, but for some reason when asked, no one wants to discuss scripture.

I'm sad to hear you feel that no one wants to discuss scripture.

I am happy to discuss scriptures with you. Probably not here on this thread, since it would easily get off topic.


But there have been two recent threads where I presented scripture and asked you a question and haven't heard back.

Are you aware of this? Did you just miss the posts? It's an easy thing to do by accident, I know.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Well, I definitely disagree with that, if I understand what they're saying.

I think a person is to be baptized into Christ, not into a particular denomination,
signified by affirming the fundamental beliefs of that denomination.
Ellen refers everyone back to the bible, God’s Word is the ultimate authority and what everything must be tested by.

Here are the alternate baptism vows

1. Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and Lord, and do you desire to live your life in a saving relationship with Him?

2. Do you accept the teachings of the Bible as expressed in the Statement of Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and do you pledge by God’s grace to live your life in harmony with these teachings?

3. Do you desire to be baptized as a public expression of your belief in Jesus Christ, to be accepted into the fellowship of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and to support the Church and its mission as a faithful steward by your personal influence, tithes and offerings, and a life of service?
 
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