Joe Biden and Ron DeSantis Trade Barbs as Florida's Monoclonal Antibodies Restricted

Halbhh

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That's fine but it's not what I asked. There are those who want to deny healthcare to those who are unvaccinated because they chose to be. It's because it was based on choice. I wondered if all bad health choices should be denied healthcare.
I think the ACA in the limited stuff it does do has got at least some of the right principals -- that everyone is eligible to be insured, and no one can be denied, and preexisting conditions must be covered, and such.
What I'd propose is that in addition to those rules, it also be in this health insurance law that insurers be free to charge higher premiums or surcharges for smoking and other well established voluntary (chosen) health risks a person could quit, but chooses not to quit.
 
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A_Thinker

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And as we have seen vaccines do not stop COVID. We've haven't d veloped one yet that does.
Vaccines can stop viral diseases when enough people take them. They work by reducing the reproduction number of the virus to below one, ... which keeps it from spreading ...
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Joe Biden and Ron DeSantis trade barbs as Florida's monoclonal antibodies restricted


Interesting conversation to be had on this one.

...and this is another one where I feel that both sides may have some explaining to do.

To the Democrat side:
If "human healthcare is a right, regardless of poor decisions" is a virtue, should certain life saving treatments be throttled, even if a state's current situation is the result of their own poor decisions?

To the Republican side:
If fiscal responsibility and people should have to live with the consequences of their own poor decisions, and If you want to make bad decisions, then go ahead, but I shouldn't have to pay for that are cornerstones of the conservative thought process, should federal resources (which everyone has to pay for) be subsidized for contingency plans for states where they're actively rejecting mitigation measures?


It seems to me that people on both sides are wanting to have it both ways on this one.

If one really believes "healthcare is a human right, no matter how poor their decision making is", then nobody should object to using federal resources to treat a person, even if that person did something stupid like trying to use Ivermectin instead of a free effective and safe vaccine.

If one really believes "everyone else shouldn't have to pay for your bad decisions, you live with the decision you make", then they shouldn't object to the restriction of Regeneron to states like Florida and Texas, where, the increased demand for such treatments is directly the result of people making poor choices with regards to virus mitigation and rejecting the vaccine in favor of quack treatments (or nothing at all).

True.

We already pay for everyone's bad decisions in America, due to obesity, horrendous diet, drug or alcohol use/overuse, smoking, etc.
 
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Job 33:6

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The whole discussion around monoclonal antibodies seems blown out of proportion.

You get a treatment that only lasts a month or two, then you have to return again for more treatment month after month after month.

It's expensive, it takes up time, And it's more responsive than it is proactive. It involves waiting until after you get infected and after you begin transmission to other people, rather than preemptively getting the treatment or preemptively getting vaccinated.

I could understand it as a response for elderly people who may not have another choice, But a lot of people are making this treatment out to be an equal to vaccination, which just isn't the case. It's only really ideal in circumstances involving breakthrough cases of the elderly and vulnerable.
 
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Job 33:6

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No they don't. Look at all the countries that have had serious mandates. They too have had huge waves of covid despite the mandates.

And you act like Florida is the worst ever. Geez it seems like with these threads that everyone in Florida is dying from COVID. Or everyone I. Florida is in the hospital for it.

It's not even the worst in the nation. There are other places in the country that are bigger hotspots than Florida. I think the deal is the media is nothing but a bunch of leftists. We did not see this kind of negative publicity when NY was going through it.

It's almost like those on the left are loving this.

I wonder what is going to happen when it's happens in a leftist state.

Florida's case to population ratio is the highest in the nation. The majority of states with a high case to population ratio a red states like Tennessee, Indiana, Wisconsin, Georgia, Texas etc.

Arizona and Illinois are blue state exceptions.
 
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cow451

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He claims the opposite. I haven't found any fact-checkers so far that dispute the claim.

DeSantis slams Biden for 'really huge cut' in Florida's critical COVID antibody treatment

In Florida, nearly 100,000 people have been treated with monoclonal antibody therapy after contracting COVID-19, DeSantis said Thursday.

DeSantis said the majority who sought treatment became infected with the virus despite being vaccinated against COVID-19, which he said underscores the need not only to promote vaccinations, which are widely available and free in Florida, but to develop early treatments for those who get the disease.

Florida ranks 21st for fully vaccinated rate among states, whereas the other states using a high amount of the antibody treatments are in the lower end.


And now we get this out of Tennessee, as a result of rationing:


Tennessee limiting monoclonal antibody treatment to unvaccinated residents

Tennessee, which is following the guidance of the National Institutes of Health, appears to be the first state to recommend limiting monoclonal antibody treatment to Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated or vaccinated but immunocompromised.
IOW, foolish people move to the head of the line.
 
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cow451

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That's fine but it's not what I asked. There are those who want to deny healthcare to those who are unvaccinated because they chose to be. It's because it was based on choice. I wondered if all bad health choices should be denied healthcare.
I'm glad we agree that choosing to be unvaccinated is a bad choice. Smokers often pay higher health insurance premiums. Some people with injuries from motor vehicle crashes get lower insurance coverage for their resulting care if the police report notes the individual did not wear a seat belt. I think similar consequences would be appropriate for choosing to make a bad choice about COVID vaccination.
 
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cow451

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And as we have seen vaccines do not stop COVID. We've haven't d veloped one yet that does.
What percentage of Americans have been vaccinated against smallpox?
 
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cow451

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Nobody under 50 is.
Great. I can hang out with recently infected polio patients because we all have herd immunity.

You know more people would get the COVID vaccine if it were dosed in a little cup containing a sugar cube. I thought it tasted great. Made standing in line worth it.

The smallpox thing was bad. Made a big sore and left a scar. Why would anyone do that to a kid. I shoulda sued because I didn’t have a choice.

A lot of adults are just weenies today.
 
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rjs330

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I'm glad we agree that choosing to be unvaccinated is a bad choice. Smokers often pay higher health insurance premiums. Some people with injuries from motor vehicle crashes get lower insurance coverage for their resulting care if the police report notes the individual did not wear a seat belt. I think similar consequences would be appropriate for choosing to make a bad choice about COVID vaccination.

Yes it was a bad choice. But no denial of healthcare. It's was a dumb statement to make.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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True.

We already pay for everyone's bad decisions in America, due to obesity, horrendous diet, drug or alcohol use/overuse, smoking, etc.

The difference with those things is that they're
A) not contagious
B) things we've been dealing with for a long time so already have the medical infrastructure in place to handle them.

For instance, hospitals can accurately forecast what kind of resources they'll need to deal with diabetic patients on a yearly basis. If some outside factor/event occurred that tripled that number, you can best believe state governments would be pursuing aggressive mitigation measures.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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This is what's happening all over the world. Vivid has been hitting in waves. It comes, spikes, and then drops off.

It has not been able to be stopped regardless of the efforts to stop it. COVID is here to stay just like the seasonal flu. Because we haven't got a real vaccine and it's ability to mutate. Maybe someday we'll get a real vaccine like the flu shot, but I'm not seeing anything on that yet.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/07/who...hopes-for-eradicating-the-virus-diminish.html

Correct, it's in all likelihood going to be endemic. However, it shouldn't be looked at like an on-off switch, but more like a dimmer switch.

Nobody's been able to turn off the light completely, but certain locales have been able to dim the lights more than others.

As noted before in my previous post,
Florida Has the Highest COVID Death Rate in the U.S.

Florida has the highest death rate in the US. Are you saying that Florida (with the highest death rate) and the state with the lowest death rate should be considered "equal failures" because no state has managed to wipe it out completely?

That's like saying that the person who got in a low speed fender bender is the exact same as the person who got drunk and plowed into a schoolbus at 70mph because "they both failed to control their vehicle", and then using that to imply that "see, all of these speed limits and sobriety requirements are a waste of time"
 
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ThatRobGuy

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From your source:

According to The New York Times COVID-19 tracker, Florida—the third largest state by population—has a death rate of 1.56 per 100,000 people over the last seven days.

The highest rate over the last seven days hardly paints the whole picture. These waves tend to effect geographic areas. Certainly politics plays a role, but being indoors due to hot weather likely does as well.

Despite having a huge population of elderly folks, who are at higher risk, Florida does not have the highest overall deaths per 100k for the pandemic overall. They are certainly moving up in the standings lately, however.

United States COVID: 43,256,838 Cases and 697,055 Deaths - Worldometer


1 Mississippi 3143
2 New Jersey 3067
3 Louisiana 2916
4 New York 2856
5 Alabama 2745
6 Arizona 2691
7 Massachusetts 2681
8 Rhode Island 2658
9 Arkansas 2485
10 Florida 2416

Comparing "totals across the entire pandemic" to "how they're currently handling it" are two totally different things.

A lot of states botched things early on (NY being a notable example), but then changed course.
 
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rjs330

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Correct, it's in all likelihood going to be endemic. However, it shouldn't be looked at like an on-off switch, but more like a dimmer switch.

Nobody's been able to turn off the light completely, but certain locales have been able to dim the lights more than others.

As noted before in my previous post,
Florida Has the Highest COVID Death Rate in the U.S.

Florida has the highest death rate in the US. Are you saying that Florida (with the highest death rate) and the state with the lowest death rate should be considered "equal failures" because no state has managed to wipe it out completely?

That's like saying that the person who got in a low speed fender bender is the exact same as the person who got drunk and plowed into a schoolbus at 70mph because "they both failed to control their vehicle", and then using that to imply that "see, all of these speed limits and sobriety requirements are a waste of time"

Thank you for your opinion. Florida isn't isolated. And the rate cannot be proven to b a result of a failure to lock down or wear masks. It's a speculation. And I repeat they have not worked world wide.
 
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rjs330

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Comparing "totals across the entire pandemic" to "how they're currently handling it" are two totally different things.

A lot of states botched things early on (NY being a notable example), but then changed course.

Wasn't NY one if the first to lockdown and have mandates?
 
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wing2000

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Thank you for your opinion. Florida isn't isolated. And the rate cannot be proven to b a result of a failure to lock down or wear masks. It's a speculation. And I repeat they have not worked world wide.


Research on the effect of masks in public schools found schools in Maricopa and Pima counties without a mask mandate were 3.5 times more likely to have COVID-19 outbreaks than those that started the academic year requiring face coverings.

Ninety-two percent of schools with mask mandates in place when the school year started had no outbreaks during the nearly seven weeks of the study, according to a report published Friday.

Arizona State University researchers analyzed data from July 15 to Aug. 31 provided by Maricopa and Pima county public health departments. They also found that the earlier a district implemented a mask requirement, the less likely it was to have an outbreak.

The Arizona Republic
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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The difference with those things is that they're
A) not contagious
B) things we've been dealing with for a long time so already have the medical infrastructure in place to handle them.

For instance, hospitals can accurately forecast what kind of resources they'll need to deal with diabetic patients on a yearly basis. If some outside factor/event occurred that tripled that number, you can best believe state governments would be pursuing aggressive mitigation measures.
Not so sure about that, actually. Second hand smoke hurts everyone present, and smokers also tend to come from homes where people smoke. Same with drugs. Obesity hurts everyone (from medical costs, if not physically) and obese people tend to come from homes where overeating is common.

In that sense, they do spread generation to generation. But if you are vaccinated, immune, masked up, distanced, leave everyone else alone.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Not so sure about that, actually. Second hand smoke hurts everyone present, and smokers also tend to come from homes where people smoke. Same with drugs. Obesity hurts everyone (from medical costs, if not physically) and obese people tend to come from homes where overeating is common.

In that sense, they do spread generation to generation. But if you are vaccinated, immune, masked up, distanced, leave everyone else alone.

There have been strong measures aimed at mitigating the effects of smoking.

Everything from prescriptive/suggestive measures like federally funded tobacco awareness programs, to more forceful approaches like many states raising the minimum age from 18-21, outright indoor smoking bans, and things like tax incentives for companies who agree to have a smoke-free campuses, as well as hefty taxation on the products themselves.
 
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