Hillary Clinton Attorney Indictment -- Russia Russia Russia hoax

[Tom 1]

I don't know how well the Clinton email scandal was covered in your country,

Perhaps you are equally concerned with the casual use of personal email and messaging accounts by the members of Trump’s family he gave government jobs to? Or the veto on Kushner’s unfitness for security clearance? If the disappearance of some emails you appear to believe you know the contents of worries you, a lack of any record of official communications ought to also, right? Or is that ‘different’ somehow?

 

[stevil]

'...the indictment and prior disclosures suggest that Clinton campaign lawyers at the law firm of Perkins Coie helped organize an effort to spread Russia collusion stories and trigger an investigation'

The investigation started because Papadopoulos has been speaking to some Australians about this.
How the Russia Inquiry Began: A Campaign Aide, Drinks and Talk of Political Dirt (Published 2017)

EDIT
George Papadopoulos, a young foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, made a startling revelation to Australia’s top diplomat in Britain: Russia had political dirt on Hillary Clinton.

...

The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired.

 

[Tom 1]

The investigation started because Papadopoulos has been speaking to some Australians about this.
How the Russia Inquiry Began: A Campaign Aide, Drinks and Talk of Political Dirt (Published 2017)

EDIT
George Papadopoulos, a young foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, made a startling revelation to Australia’s top diplomat in Britain: Russia had political dirt on Hillary Clinton.

...

The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired.

Sure, I was questioning whether the OP considered this to be news, rather than information from several years ago.

 

[Valletta]

Do you mean this? White House condemns border guard use of whip-like cord against Haitian migrants Doesn’t quite match what you said, but doesn’t appear to be fake, either. Do you believe this is a ‘fake story’, or are you referring to something else? I’ve read the news over the last few weeks and that’s only the second time I’ve come across something related to the use of something like a whip (although that isn’t quite what the article says, that seems to be how you have interpreted it). Can you provide a link to some news outlet claiming whips were used on blacks?




Then it should be easy for you to provide some examples, please do so.

Find a video of the "The Reid Out" on MSNBC from Monday, Reid asked Congresswoman Omar about the whips, saying she was not aware people had whips that they could use on humans. Omar went on to say it was systemic racism, you know the lines. And it would not surprise me if the Biden statement about sending the Haitians back is a hoax, Biden might send some for appearance sake, but Haitians settled here would likely be solid for Democrats. Find out the exact number of the fourteen thousand that are sent back this week and then we can know whether it is another Biden lie.

 

[Valletta]

Do you mean this? White House condemns border guard use of whip-like cord against Haitian migrants Doesn’t quite match what you said, but doesn’t appear to be fake, either. Do you believe this is a ‘fake story’, or are you referring to something else? I’ve read the news over the last few weeks and that’s only the second time I’ve come across something related to the use of something like a whip (although that isn’t quite what the article says, that seems to be how you have interpreted it). Can you provide a link to some news outlet claiming whips were used on blacks?




Then it should be easy for you to provide some examples, please do so.

I found a transcript of the Reid show at: Transcript: The ReidOut, 9/20/21 The following is roughly in the middle:

Should we be looking at the budget of Department of Homeland Security? Because I was not aware that whips which come from the slave era, slavery era, were part of the package that we issue to any sort of law enforcement or government-sanctioned personnel.

Were you aware that was being issued to people, that people had that kind of equipment on them that they could use on humans?

OMAR: I was not. And I am quite appalled.

 

[Valletta]

Perhaps you are equally concerned with the casual use of personal email and messaging accounts by the members of Trump’s family he gave government jobs to? Or the veto on Kushner’s unfitness for security clearance? If the disappearance of some emails you appear to believe you know the contents of worries you, a lack of any record of official communications ought to also, right? Or is that ‘different’ somehow?

That an attorney for Hillary's campaign potentially initiated a hoax that the media and other Democrats used to falsely discredit President Trump is the big threat for Democrats in future elections--while there are many hardcore fanatics there are people who will be appalled. Democrat leaders are in damage control mode.

 

[Tom 1]

That an attorney for Hillary's campaign potentially initiated a hoax that the media and other Democrats used to falsely discredit President Trump is the big threat for Democrats in future elections--while there are many hardcore fanatics there are people who will be appalled. Democrat leaders are in damage control mode.

This doesn't respond to the content of my post.

 

[Tom 1]

I found a transcript of the Reid show at: Transcript: The ReidOut, 9/20/21 The following is roughly in the middle:

Should we be looking at the budget of Department of Homeland Security? Because I was not aware that whips which come from the slave era, slavery era, were part of the package that we issue to any sort of law enforcement or government-sanctioned personnel.

Were you aware that was being issued to people, that people had that kind of equipment on them that they could use on humans?

OMAR: I was not. And I am quite appalled.

Do you believe this supports your statement: '...so many of the American major media news networks falsely claimed whips were being used on blacks at the border' ?

A more accurate description would be person on a talk show says she is not aware whips are used at the border, apparently mistaking people whirling long reins for whips. Your initial statement is bogus.

And it would not surprise me if the Biden statement about sending the Haitians back is a hoax, Biden might send some for appearance sake, but Haitians settled here would likely be solid for Democrats.

Maybe you can do better than insinuation and innuendo?

 

[Tom 1]

That an attorney for Hillary's campaign potentially initiated a hoax that the media and other Democrats used to falsely discredit President Trump is the big threat for Democrats in future elections

That's not accurate, the investigation into Trump's ties with Russia was initiated by a group of Republicans concerned about Trump's nomination for presidential candidate. Given that Steele is a renowned expert on Russian internal affairs, it's hardly surprising that he was contracted by them. It was unknown at that point how much of the information he would dig up would be accurate, or not. Please provide some examples of how the media attempted to 'falsely discredit' Trump in some way that is not equivalent to the coverage on allegations about Clinton's emails etc.

As the Mueller report makes clear, there is overwhelming evidence that Russia intelligence services carried out a major campaign to influence the election in Trump's favour. There were a number of arrests, charges and convictions linking members of Trump's campaign to foreign powers, including the Russian government, so to call it a hoax, rather than what it was, an investigation that proved that some charges were accurate whereas others were not, is deliberately misleading. Do you imagine that any investigation begins with advance knowledge of what the outcome will be, or what?

 

[Valletta]

I found a transcript of the Reid show at: Transcript: The ReidOut, 9/20/21 The following is roughly in the middle:

Should we be looking at the budget of Department of Homeland Security? Because I was not aware that whips which come from the slave era, slavery era, were part of the package that we issue to any sort of law enforcement or government-sanctioned personnel.

Were you aware that was being issued to people, that people had that kind of equipment on them that they could use on humans?

OMAR: I was not. And I am quite appalled.

I just gave you one example, and I can't be responsible for news services altering their wording once they get caught. The proper thing to do is to first verify a story before it is put out and if the verification was wrong then print a retraction. NBC news said "apparent" whips, but why not check the story first?

 

[Tom 1]

I just gave you one example, and I can't be responsible for news services altering their wording once they get caught. The proper thing to do is to first verify a story before it is put out and if the verification was wrong then print a retraction. NBC news said "apparent" whips, but why not check the story first?

In what way does your one talk show example remotely justify this, your words: ...so many of the American major media news networks falsely claimed whips were being used on blacks at the border' ?

I can't be responsible for news services altering their wording once they get caught

What actual thing does this refer to?

 

[Tom 1]

NBC news said "apparent" whips, but why not check the story first?

Conversation on a talk show isn't a 'story'.

This is an extract from NBC's actual article:

'Psaki was asked repeatedly to comment on "photos of border agents on horseback using what appear to be whips on Haitian migrants" and whether it was appropriate behavior.


"I have seen some of the footage. I don't have the full context. I can't imagine what context would make that appropriate, but I don't have additional details," she told reporters at the daily White House briefing. "I don't think anyone seeing that footage would think it's acceptable or appropriate."

Homeland Security head Alejandro Mayorkas was asked about the photo earlier in the day while visiting Del Rio, Texas, where more than 15,000 mostly Haitian migrants have converged on a border bridge. He said the reporter who asked him about the whip was "assuming the facts," and suggested it was possible the agent was simply holding a long rein.'

Does that seem unreasonable coverage to you?

 

[Valletta]

Do you believe this supports your statement: '...so many of the American major media news networks falsely claimed whips were being used on blacks at the border' ?

A more accurate description would be person on a talk show says she is not aware whips are used at the border, apparently mistaking people whirling long reins for whips. Your initial statement is bogus.



Maybe you can do better than insinuation and innuendo?

x A person on a talk show? She is the host of the show, like Rachel Maddow is a host. She was interviewing a Congresswoman. It doesn't count because she is a person on a TV show? Please don't try and support the numerous fake news stories about this even, no blacks were being whipped with long reins or whips, the systemic racism/border patrol racism goes right into the fake left wing racism narrative.

 

[Tom 1]

x A person on a talk show? She is the host of the show, like Rachel Maddow is a host. She was interviewing a Congresswoman. It doesn't count because she is a person on a TV show? Please don't try and support the numerous fake news stories about this even, no blacks were being whipped with long reins or whips, the systemic racism/border patrol racism goes right into the fake left wing racism narrative.

You can see as well as I do that your one dubious example in no way supports your earlier statement.

If you amended your statement to something like 'talk show hosts asks congressperson if she knows whips might be used at border' then that would be more or less accurate. This: '...so many of the American major media news networks falsely claimed whips were being used on blacks at the border' ?, as you can see, is entirely inaccurate.

 

[HIM]

How do you know there was evidence there?

Evidence? The emails were destroyed, that is all the evidence needed.

 

[Valletta]

.

 

[Valletta]

You can see as well as I do that your one dubious example in no way supports your earlier statement.

If you amended your statement to something like 'talk show hosts asks congressperson if she knows whips might be used at border' then that would be more or less accurate. This: '...so many of the American major media news networks falsely claimed whips were being used on blacks at the border' ?, as you can see, is entirely inaccurate.

Your statement is false. I was kind enough to grab a link for you, I saw multiple reports. If you don't consider the host of an MSNBC show interviewing a United States Congresswoman sufficient all you had to do was ask for other examples. You tried to deflect away from the fake news reporting by making a false accusation against me.

 

[Valletta]

More FAKE NEWS examples-- from NY Magazine and NBC News:
Border Patrol Agent Uses Whip to Chase Down Haitian Migrants
Border Patrol Agent Uses Whip to Chase Haitian Migrants Into Mexico

Psaki asked about image of Border Patrol agent with apparent whip: 'obviously horrific'
Psaki asked about image of Border Patrol agent with apparent whip: 'obviously horrific'

 

[Tom 1]

More FAKE NEWS examples-- from NY Magazine and NBC News:
Border Patrol Agent Uses Whip to Chase Down Haitian Migrants
Border Patrol Agent Uses Whip to Chase Haitian Migrants Into Mexico

Psaki asked about image of Border Patrol agent with apparent whip: 'obviously horrific'
Psaki asked about image of Border Patrol agent with apparent whip: 'obviously horrific'

Re. the first link, I've never come across The Intelligencer before. I took your statement '...so many of the major American news networks' to mean the usual suspects, CNN, NYT, WAPO etc. If what you meant was some other little known news outlet, or if The Intellgencer is indeed a major news network, then mea culpa, apologies.

Re. your second article, that is the one I quoted from earlier:

'Psaki was asked repeatedly to comment on "photos of border agents on horseback using what appear to be whips on Haitian migrants" and whether it was appropriate behavior.


"I have seen some of the footage. I don't have the full context. I can't imagine what context would make that appropriate, but I don't have additional details," she told reporters at the daily White House briefing. "I don't think anyone seeing that footage would think it's acceptable or appropriate."

Homeland Security head Alejandro Mayorkas was asked about the photo earlier in the day while visiting Del Rio, Texas, where more than 15,000 mostly Haitian migrants have converged on a border bridge. He said the reporter who asked him about the whip was "assuming the facts," and suggested it was possible the agent was simply holding a long rein.'

What do you think? Does that seem unreasonable to you?

Really though - do you really think your statement is justified? If you could produce examples of 'many major American news networks' reporting on the use of whips on refugees then that would indeed justify the assertion that 'many major American news networks' did that. As it is, you appear to be doing everything you can to avoid the simple admission that your initial statement was incorrect, not supported by the evidence you have provided.

 

[Tom 1]

I saw multiple reports

Where?

If you don't consider the host of an MSNBC show interviewing a United States Congresswoman sufficient all you had to do was ask for other examples.

I find it hard to believe you don't know the difference between a claim and a question, or between interviews, opinions, talks shows and reporting. These are different things, you must be aware of that.