New Story breaking on Wuhan

Tom 1

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Why does anyone in their right mind believe Rand Paul over Dr. Anthony Fauci?

Never underestimate the desire to believe. I'm not sure what motivates it but there's an unstoppable force behind the need to believe in alternative realities.
 
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Job 33:6

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I'm sure people reading this thread know about the Rand Paul vs. Anthony Fauci dust ups vs. "Gain of Function" research at the Wuhan lab, but that sort of criticism by Rand Paul and others is the backdrop of the story where new documents have been found that back up Paul's claim against Fauci.


Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, said the documents – obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request — made it clear that Fauci had been “untruthful” about gain-of-function research.

“The documents make it clear that assertions by the NIH Director, Francis Collins, and the NIAID Director, Anthony Fauci, that the NIH did not support gain-of-function research or potential pandemic pathogen enhancement at WIV are untruthful,” he tweeted.

“The materials show that the 2014 and 2019 NIH grants to EcoHealth with subcontracts to WIV funded gain-of-function research as defined in federal policies in effect in 2014-2017 and potential pandemic pathogen enhancement as defined in federal policies in effect in 2017-present.”



Wuhan lab documents show Fauci 'untruthful' about research: critics


Rand Paul says new Wuhan documents show Fauci lied

My understanding is that the research isn't "gain-of-function" if the viruses being researched already had the function and ability to infect human cells. And of course the reason these coronaviruses became of interest for research, is because they were publicly known to have the ability to infect human cells (that's why they were collected for research to begin with).

If people believe that it was gain-of-function research, then what function do they believe that these viruses gained?

Maybe @sfs could weight in.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Rand Paul is an ophthalmologist. He has absolutely no business commenting on COVID-19 or any other virus. He is currently a US Senator and is not practicing medicine.

Dr. Anthony Fauci is an American physician-scientist and immunologist serving as the Director of the National Institute of Allegry and Infectious Diseases (NIAID). He is a world-class authority on COVID-19.

Why does anyone in their right mind believe Rand Paul over Dr. Anthony Fauci? Would you want an automobile mechanic piloting your next flight in a jet airliner?

Lets throw a little wrench into your argument - Alfred Charles Kinsey (/ ˈ k ɪ n z i /; June 23, 1894 - August 25, 1956) was an American biologist, professor of entomology and zoology, and sexologist who created the Kinsey Reports that influenced the American Psychological Association to move homosexuality from an abnormal behavior to normal. Kinsey a biologist, bug scientist, and animal scientist we can listen to and make history altering decisions but a congressman/ophthalmologist (a congressman who has been briefed in the area of Infectious Diseases) has absolutely no credentials. Go figure. You know it doesn't take rocket science to understand some of this stuff. Give Rand Paul a chance, he's not stupid.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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So what? He is an ophthalmologist. He has no legitimacy regarding infectious diseases, especially since he went to medical school decades ago.

There are currently 17 physicians members of the 117th Congress including 4 senators and 13 representatives. He is the most outspoken, professing knowledge that is way outside his specialty. Do you want an eye doctor to remove your appendix?

Sorry, I didn't mean to be so rude with my initial response to you. Had a bad day, shouldn't have taken it out on you. God Bless.
 
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The Barbarian

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The Barbarian

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Lets throw a little wrench into your argument - Alfred Charles Kinsey (/ ˈ k ɪ n z i /; June 23, 1894 - August 25, 1956) was an American biologist, professor of entomology and zoology, and sexologist who created the Kinsey Reports that influenced the American Psychological Association to move homosexuality from an abnormal behavior to normal.

No, that's wrong. Long after Kinsey, homosexuality was being described as an abnormal behavior. For example, when I took a course in abnormal psychology in the late 1960s, it was so described. The reason it ceased to be considered abnormal, is that studies showed that homosexuals were no more likely than heterosexuals to have abnormalities on various psychiatric inventories.

Stephen Gould once reported that while looking through entomology journals in the stacks of a library, he found a paper by Kinsey regarding some insect. Someone had written across the top of the article: "Why don't you write about something more interesting, Al?"

And no, it's not rocket science. It's more complicated than rocket science. I've got a degree in microbiology. I've done graduate work in immunology, and supervised an allergy/immunology clinic in the Air Force, after training with physicians who were immunologists.

And when I read the literature, I still have to look up terms and processes. Anything looks easy if you don't know anything about it. Paul is probably better prepared to talk about immunology than the average person. But I very much doubt that he knows as much as I do about it. It would be odd for an ophthalmologist to be that knowledgeable on the subject.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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No, that's wrong. Long after Kinsey, homosexuality was being described as an abnormal behavior. For example, when I took a course in abnormal psychology in the late 1960s, it was so described. The reason it ceased to be considered abnormal, is that studies showed that homosexuals were no more likely than heterosexuals to have abnormalities on various psychiatric inventories.

Stephen Gould once reported that while looking through entomology journals in the stacks of a library, he found a paper by Kinsey regarding some insect. Someone had written across the top of the article: "Why don't you write about something more interesting, Al?"

And no, it's not rocket science. It's more complicated than rocket science. I've got a degree in microbiology. I've done graduate work in immunology, and supervised an allergy/immunology clinic in the Air Force, after training with physicians who were immunologists.

And when I read the literature, I still have to look up terms and processes. Anything looks easy if you don't know anything about it. Paul is probably better prepared to talk about immunology than the average person. But I very much doubt that he knows as much as I do about it. It would be odd for an ophthalmologist to be that knowledgeable on the subject.

I beg to differ on your first paragraph but everything else looks thoughtfully laid out. Thanks for the reply. God bless.
 
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The Barbarian

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I beg to differ on your first paragraph but everything else looks thoughtfully laid out. Thanks for the reply. God bless.

Well, thank you. My wife (Master's in Guidance and Counseling, worked 18 years in a dept. of psychiatry in a medical school) has an old DSM-IV from 1998, and it does not have homosexuality as a paraphilia. So sometime between 1967 and 1998, it was removed from the manual of mental disorders.

I imagine it would be possible to run that down on the net somewhere, but there is no question that long after Kinsey's study, homosexuality was considered a paraphilia. It was still being discussed as a question long after 1998, by scholars:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-012-9900-3

My personal opinion is that it is intrinsically disordered and sinful to have homosexual sexual relations, but that there's no clear reason for labeling it a paraphilia.
 
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