FreeGrace2 said:
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This is an excellent question; one that every believer should be asking. Sadly, though, your question reveals that you do believe that you can do something that Christ didn't die for. There is nothing He left out.
There is the sin against the Spirit (Matt 12:31-32).
That was a very specific context, and it applied ONLY to those who Jesus addressed. The issue was the unbelievers who rejected Jesus as Messiah attributed His miracles to the devil. iow, they were so negative that even His miracles didn't move them. They were refusing to believe.
Only those who SAW the miracles and attributed them to the devil were guilty of this sin.
There is also crucifying the Son after we have accepted Him (Heb 6:4-6).
There is nothing in that passage about losing salvation. The issue was believers who were or thinking of returning to the Law and sacrifices in order to satisfy God. That is blasphemy, since Christ had already paid for all sin. The passage says these people couldn't be "brought back to repentance". iow, they wouldn't change their minds.
But why are you still trying in vain to prove that salvation can be lost?
That can only mean that you don't believe what Jesus said about WHEN one possesses eternal life, per John 5:24, and that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, per Jn 10:28.
Why are you still "kicking at the goads"?
But my point is that your doctrine that we cannot fall from grace removes the punishment from the equation.
I never said believers can't "fall from grace". I WILL say that falling from grace isn't loss of salvation, or Jesus was lying in Jn 10:28. I refuse to believe that.
And I have always stressed the FACT that disobedient/rebellious children of God WILL experience God's PAINFUL discipline (Heb 12:11). iow, they won't get away with anything.
If, after I believe, there is no way to lose salvation, then there is no threat of punishment, or loss of the reward, to keep me from continuing in a sinful life.
You are just not listening then. Why do you think that God's only punishment available is to remove salvation from His children?
Indeed, and these passages, along with the many passages in the NT, tell us that we must remain faithful and endure to the end to receive the crown of glory.
But you misunderstand the "crowns" to refer to salvation, when they refer to reward.
Do you understand the meaning of a gift and a paycheck?
Do you earn a gift? No. Do you earn your paycheck? Hopefully you do. The Bible commands believers to earn their pay.
Salvation is a gift. You cannot earn it. You (and I) certainly don't deserve it. But God gives salvation as a gift. Eph 2:8
If we fall away we lose the crown. We won’t receive the prize.
Yes, we do. But that's not salvation in view. It's reward.
Col 3-
23Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,
24 since you know that
you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.
No. You can divorce God, break the covenant, and lose the prize (Heaven).
Show me any verse that says any of this. All I'm seeing here is your presumption. Which is totally unbiblical.
Every time you argue against eternal security, you are arguing against the Bible.
I do believe every Word He said.
That is NOT possible. Jesus was clear about WHEN a person possesses eternal life (Jn 5:24), and the result of having eternal life (Jn 10:28).
So you are NOT telling the truth when you claim to "believe every word He said". No, you certainly do not.
And in the parable of the soul He tells us that many will fall away. Two of the four seeds is received, sprouts, and grows (salvation), but does not produce fruit because the person falls away. Only one seed does not result in salvation (the first).
Nowhere did Jesus say or even imply that the 2 soils that didn't produce fruit lost salvation. Again, you are only inserting your own presumption into the passage.
Salvation IS the eternal reward.
There you go again. You are confusing what is earned, which is reward, with what CANNOT be earned, which is the gift of salvation/eternal life.
Until you sort that out and understand both gifts and rewards, there is no way you'll ever understand the Bible.
He is talking about a single thing, THE PRIZE (salvation), not a group of things.
FreeGrace2 said:
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But the bottom line for Arminians is that believing that salvation can be lost simply do not believe what Jesus said about eternal life.
In
John 5:24 Jesus said those who believe (present tense) have (possess - present tense) eternal life. This means they possess eternal life WHEN they believe.
Then, in
John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
So, from the moment of faith in Christ, that person shall never perish because they possess eternal life. And eternal life cannot die.
Very simple.
That assumes that eternal life cannot be lost.[/QUOTE]
There is no assumption. Jesus couldn't have been more clear about eternal security.
Believing that eternal life can be lost is the presumption and rejection of what Jesus said so very clearly.
Yes, when you are baptized (not when you believe), you receive salvation and the promise of eternal life when we die, if we remain faithful for the rest of our life.
That's NOT what Jesus said in John 5:24, or 10:28.
What does it mean for us if Christ denies us before the Father? It means we are not His (Christ’s), and we will be thrown out of Heaven with the rest of the goats (into Hell).
No, it means He will deny us rewards.
But you ignore the last half of the verse that again tells us that we are only heirs IF we share in His suffering (endure).
Rom 8:17 mentions 2 heirships. The first is as a child of God we are heirs of His and will live with Him in eternity. That is guaranteed because we are His children.
The second one is a "co-heir" with Christ IF IF IF we "suffer" so that we will share with Him in His glory. This is about reward.
Heirship in total is conditional. Not just being co-heir with Christ.
That would mean that God can UN-born us. That is absurd.