Why did God not start humans by making us like Jesus?

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TedT

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So . . . then . . . why didn't our Heavenly Father start us all off like Jesus??
Hey - since inherited sin seems to be totally blasphemous even though many see it as a necessity, I'd be glad to learn that HE even just started us off like Satan, a free will and ability to choose, not yet enslaved to the ADDICTION of evil...

Satan got a free will and the ability to choose yet HIS Bride starts off inheriting Adam's sin and all her righteousness is as filthy rags. ???
 
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Halbhh

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Did Jesus have freedom of thought/choice/action?
Sure, and He is vastly older than you or me, by many many orders of magnitude at least. He was already with God long before this world, Earth, came into existence, and probably before this universe also it seems, as from the wording we read: "He was with God in the beginning" is the wording. That seems to say He was already with God in the beginning, so older than this universe. Either way, we are so vastly younger in comparison.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Adam and Eve sinned because they wished to be like God by knowing the difference between good and evil. The serpent told Eve that would be the case, i.e. that they would be like God, if they ate of the tree. We cannot consider them as in anyway the same position to resist temptation as Jesus byu comparing their fall and His constancy. Jesus is the Christ and is both fully human and fully divine, therefore He has not the same motivation to rebel as Adam and Eve had . He does not aspire to the position of being the same as God because He already is. Adam and Eve were made sinless not perfect. If they were perfect there would be no temptation that they would not resist. I strongly suspect that it was God's will that they fall as I cannot believe He would be unaware of their weaknesses since He must have instilled into them everything that they were.

I disagree with the idea that God demands that we change from the way he made us in order for Him to be pleased. I turn to the parable of the Prodigal Son as to what I believe would please God From my reading of the Bible, I would say that He wants us to recognize what we are and run to Him in repentance and to subject ourselves to dependence upon Him and He will then, like the father of the prodigal son, be pleased.
 
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Robban

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Ok, that's another way of saying it! If a person has pride that they know more than God, as it were, that's trusting themselves above God. Although I feel here they may have just actually believed God had an ill motive(!), if you consider they might have believed the insinuation (that God was wrongly withholding something good for them that they were ready for) that the serpent said, and even the direct suggesting that God lied as the serpent implied:

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
[Is God irrational or petty rule making, making mistaken rules?]

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.
[i.e. God didn't tell you the truth]

5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
[and He wants to wrongly withhold from you a good thing you are ready for]

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.

[So, the Serpent made a clever series of dishonest insinuations, and tempted Eve to believe God was basically in the wrong, not a good Person. These were temptations we'd perhaps come to on our own, eventually, given enough time, perhaps though it might take thousands of years.... So, the serpent is like an accelerator for us, to push us to make our mistakes sooner, instead of it taking millennia.]

God did not tell Eve anything it was Adam who recieved the commandment,
(Genesis 2:15, v 18 Eve came into the picture.

Adam was not told not to touch the tree,
where Eve got that from was probably Adam being over protective,


Eve touched the tree and did not drop down dead, not physically in any case.

If the story is taken literally.
 
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BNR32FAN

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They were made perfect, the Bible says so, perfectly human with free will. Gods creations. Jesus had free will but He chose not to sin. He learned obedience from the things He suffered’. It was a perfect world too before sin entered in. If Jesus was perfect He wouldn’t have died not true. :)

Bless you brother, but the Bible says that God made creation (the earth and the heavens, aka the galaxy) including man and it was good. Yes at the time man was created he was good. Nowhere do the scriptures ever state that man was perfect. If you disagree I would kindly ask you to quote that verse brother. If man was created perfect he wouldn’t have fallen to disobedience. God is perfect we have never been perfect. Even after coming to Christ and having been “perfected” we still possess our sinful nature and we will still stumble in sin. The only difference is we are no longer a slave to that sinful nature. We can now choose to resist sin but we are still capable of committing sin.
 
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Jay Sea

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For a Christian, "the right way" would mean like Jesus.

Now, we have ones who say we needed to have "free will", so we can choose to love God. But Jesus is perfect and incapable of sinning, yet quite able to love the way God wants.

So . . . then . . . why didn't our Heavenly Father start us all off like Jesus??

I think this could be what Kylie is asking, and she is welcome to speak for herself.

:)
Then we would be pre-programmed robots, which is not what he desired. He wanted thinking, exploring, discovering creatures in a world of challenges and A-ha moments. Even a world with many G-ds and demons and stories, believers and unbelievers, all leading him. I think that the judgement will be like a large railway station where Yeshua will be among the crowd and you will enter the Kingdom when you recognise him. His true followers in this world will soon recognise him. After all he said "If you did it unto one of these the least of .... you did it unto me."
In LOve
Jay Sea
 
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com7fy8

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So God should have made everyone a God
got it . . . what I think you mean :)

But each Person of God is not some independent "God", but They share and function as one. So, even if God made all humans like Himself so they were "Gods", which I think you mean . . . sarcastically, of course . . . if they were like God, they would be harmonious, and not a bunch of self-willed idiots running all over the place . . . like we humans can be. All those dear little "Gods" would be sharing and harmonious and one like our Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit . . . if God who is love and about family made them like Himself.

Now @Kylie . . . for whom I started this thread > why didn't God make a bunch of nice humans all like His own Son Jesus? After all, they would have been so pleasing to Him; you would think this would be too rewarding for our Heavenly Father to resist . . . versus having all of us now being the way we can be and doing what we do selfishly in this evil world . . . except as much as anyone is changing to be God's way, through Jesus.

So . . . why do things in what could seem to be a so roundabout way? Why not be more direct and just make humans like Jesus, to begin with?

One thing I will offer, first >

All along, it was God's plan for Jesus to be the first perfectly good Person to walk on this earth; I get this possibility through the Bible verse that says, "that in all things He may have the preeminence." (in Colossians 1:18) And, with His crucifixion and resurrection, then would be when He would adopt people to become children of God, and perfect us as one body, with Jesus as our Head.

So, God did not want only a bunch of perfect "Gods" running around each on one's own. But our Father is about family caring and sharing in unity; so Jesus is meant to have a family of ones like Him and sharing and organized in family intimacy which, of course, we do not see much of among a number of humans, who can be so independent and isolated.

So, God wanted children who would become "born-again" with trusting in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12), and then all growing and loving in relation to Jesus and one another. There is a lot of communication and connecting and coordinating involved in this; so I see He would want to take some time with this, getting more and more children, and coordinating and interconnecting us all, at a higher level of organization than God has in the physical human body. I suppose He could do it all in a split second . . . but He has all eternity.

There is more, in my opinion, but this is some of it.
 
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Kylie

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Sure, and He is vastly older than you or me, by many many orders of magnitude at least. He was already with God long before this world, Earth, came into existence, and probably before this universe also it seems, as from the wording we read: "He was with God in the beginning" is the wording. That seems to say He was already with God in the beginning, so older than this universe. Either way, we are so vastly younger in comparison.

So, since we have established that we can have free will while still being completely sinless, I'll ask again: If God made Adam and Eve exactly the way he wanted them to be and they still sinned, doesn't that mean that he wanted them to sin?
 
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klutedavid

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For a Christian, "the right way" would mean like Jesus.

Now, we have ones who say we needed to have "free will", so we can choose to love God. But Jesus is perfect and incapable of sinning, yet quite able to love the way God wants.

So . . . then . . . why didn't our Heavenly Father start us all off like Jesus??

I think this could be what Kylie is asking, and she is welcome to speak for herself.

:)
Maybe we were a bit closer to what Jesus was like, before Adam sinned.

Who knows why we are so dysfunctional in our Christian walk, because we are not fully conformed. to that image of Christ.

Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.
 
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If they were made perfect and still sinned, then doesn't this mean that God made them so they would sin?

No they chose to sin. He knew they would but he doesn’t cause our sin. He tempts nobody and He himself cannot be tempted. The Lord Himself prayed that we would be delivered from temptation, how could it be from God? Why would God make a perfect world and put imperfect people in it to destroy it. But he put perfect people in it and they by choice destroyed it. See?
 
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Unqualified

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Bless you brother, but the Bible says that God made creation (the earth and the heavens, aka the galaxy) including man and it was good. Yes at the time man was created he was good. Nowhere do the scriptures ever state that man was perfect. If you disagree I would kindly ask you to quote that verse brother. If man was created perfect he wouldn’t have fallen to disobedience. God is perfect we have never been perfect. Even after coming to Christ and having been “perfected” we still possess our sinful nature and we will still stumble in sin. The only difference is we are no longer a slave to that sinful nature. We can now choose to resist sin but we are still capable of committing sin.

God is good!
 
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andreha

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He did really. Originally we were in perfect communion with God. He gave us the paradise that Adam, and Eve willingly through free will gave up by disobedience to God. The one thing they were told to stay away from, and they couldn't manage it. So, Christ made right what Adam made wrong, and Christ's Mother made right what Eve made wrong through obedience to God to birth Christ. Through the greatest act of humility ever known God gave his Son, and Christ gave Himself up as the God-man to bring us back into communion with Him.

The free will portion exists because God is love according to St. John in his Gospel, and a loving God wouldn't want to force us to love Him so we're given the choice to love Him, or not, and it's forever. We're given that option through Christ, His resurrection, and the precious Life-giving Cross.

True that. I do wonder about one thing though. Being the Almighty Creator, He must have known that this would happen, and must have planned everything precisely from the beginning. I'm sure that the fall was no surprise to Him, having Infinite knowledge. He is always light years ahead of us.
 
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Kylie

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No they chose to sin.

Could Jesus have chosen to sin?

He knew they would but he doesn’t cause our sin.

So he knew the outcome, and still set it in motion anyway, then punished us for doing what was unavoidable?

He tempts nobody and He himself cannot be tempted.

Genesis 22:1

The Lord Himself prayed that we would be delivered from temptation, how could it be from God? Why would God make a perfect world and put imperfect people in it to destroy it. But he put perfect people in it and they by choice destroyed it. See?

If they were perfect, how could they choose to sin?
 
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Could Jesus have chosen to sin?



So he knew the outcome, and still set it in motion anyway, then punished us for doing what was unavoidable?



Genesis 22:1



If they were perfect, how could they choose to sin?

perfect people without sin and the ability to choose. The had health, what have you. They were not God. Gods good creation in the image of God with unlimited potential to be with and near God and to go on forever just as they were. They were were immortal.
 
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Robban

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Could Jesus have chosen to sin?



So he knew the outcome, and still set it in motion anyway, then punished us for doing what was unavoidable?



Genesis 22:1



If they were perfect, how could they choose to sin?

Is it not a good thing that people have to pass a driving test before setting off in a car?
Abraham was tested ten times, he was to be the father of a great nation.
The last and final test was the incident with Isaac.

God knew what the outcome would be.

It was for Abrahams own benefit, for by putting his trust in the One above fully and completely proved he was on the right track.
 
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Kylie

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perfect people without sin and the ability to choose. The had health, what have you. They were not God. Gods good creation in the image of God with unlimited potential to be with and near God and to go on forever just as they were. They were were immortal.

If they were without sin, how could they choose to sin?
 
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Kylie

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Is it not a good thing that people have to pass a driving test before setting off in a car?
Abraham was tested ten times, he was to be the father of a great nation.
The last and final test was the incident with Isaac.

God knew what the outcome would be.

It was for Abrahams own benefit, for by putting his trust in the One above fully and completely proved he was on the right track.

How was it for Abe's benefit? What benefit did he get?
 
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