The difference is that God loved their ancestors, and made a promise to them (Romans 11:28)
The word "nation" does not appear in Romans 11.As of now, in their fallen state they are an enemy to God (Romans 11:22 and 28).
But God has promised he will restore the nation.
The term Israel, to me, always refers to the entire nation. (Exodus 19:6)
No, I dd not miss it. It is just saying that there would be broad spectrum of people making up the Armageddon force that gathers together to make war against Jesus.But you miss that in Revelation 19:18 John expanded that out to "all people, both free and bond, both small and great" and not just the "kings" and "captains" and "mighty men" who come against Christ.
As of now, in their fallen state they are an enemy to God (Romans 11:22 and 28).
But God has promised he will restore the nation.
You were quoting verses about the faith of the patriarchs in the old testatment. But you used a word not found in the text regarding their faith - Salvation.Salvation was always by grace through faith.
You were quoting verses about the faith of the patriarchs in the old testatment. But you used a word not found in the text regarding their faith - Salvation.
Change that to a person cannot please God without faith.
Hebrews11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Salvation - The only way to be saved is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, Him crucified and resurrected on the third day.
________________________________
You cannot make the church into the nation of Israel.
You are giving me an Amil sermon on Savlation is available to everyone. Pre-(great)trib, pre-mil are totally knowledgeable about all those verses.The biased Zionist focus of many Dispensationalists today, with their unhealthy fixation on national Israel, is roundly rebuked throughout New Testament Scriptures. The apartheid they advocate runs contrary to God’s heart for this new covenant era. It is shown to be contrary to New Testament truth. In fact, it is the reverse of God’s plan for the nations.
In Acts 10, God uses a vision of unclean food to help the apostle Peter see that in Christ there is no longer any spiritual distinction between Jew and Gentile. God now accepts both equally on the same terms into His kingdom. Peter responds to this great monumental revelation in Acts 10:34-36: “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all).”
The word interpreted “respecter” in the King James Version is the Greek word prosopoleptes which simply means: one exhibiting partiality. In fact, the New King James Version renders this, “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.”
The Revised Standard Version states: “Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” The New Living Translation: “I see very clearly that God doesn't show partiality. In every nation he accepts those who fear him and do what is right.” Today’s English Version similarly states, “I now realize that it is true that God treats everyone on the same basis. Whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what race he belongs to.” New International Version states: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.”
This passage is crystal clear in its meaning and explanation of how God views all nations, peoples and tribes equally today. The reading makes it clear: God is no respecter of persons. This is not strange or outlandish; it is the constant theme of the New Testament. The Gospel is no longer restricted to the physical race of Israel but it has been opened up to embrace all nations. This means that God doesn’t accept anyone based on their nationality, color or status but rather on whether or not they fear Him. When it comes to salvation he looks at the inward rather than the outward. Those that fear him and walk righteously “in every nation” are now “accepted with him.” He is assuredly “Lord of all.” He has made all nations, tribes and kindreds the focus of His favor today. It is wrong to elevate one nation over another.
Messianic Jew Jakob Jocz cogently observes: “God is no respecter of persons. Before Him, the Holy One, men stand not as Jews and Gentiles but as sinners who are in need of grace. Jesus the prophet may be speaking to the Gentiles; but Jesus the Son of God speaks to mankind. Jesus the martyr may be appealing to some and not to others; but Jesus the Lamb of God challenges the whole human race. God’s word is one word, and God’s way is one if it is the way of God” (The Jewish People and Jesus Christ).
The Jews no longer enjoy a favored or exclusive status. Sadly, many modern-day Christian fail to get their head round this great and seismic immense new covenant change.
There was an infamous controversy among the early Church about the conversion of the Gentiles and particularly the erroneous thought, “Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved” in Acts 15:1-19. The matter was brought to the Church in Jerusalem for them to make a ruling. Peter arose and spoke on behalf of the brethren, saying, “Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith” (vv7-9).
The NKJV states: “God … made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.” Anyone who fights this reality is clearly fighting with God and holy Scripture.
Paul asserts in Romans 2:11-12: “For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law (Gentiles) shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (Jews) shall be judged by the law.” This same truth is repeated in Galatians 2:6, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25, James 2:9 and 1 Peter 1:17.
This is the constant theme that threads through New Testament Scripture. It is clear and unambiguous. It demolishes the bias Dispensationalists reasoning. As we moved from the old covenant to the new covenant the whole ethnic bias towards Israel was removed, so was the unique theocratic system of government that existed within that land (Matthew 21:42-43, Luke 13:5-9, 28-29, 34-35). No longer would race be a special privilege in regard to election. All men would now approach God equally on the grounds of the blood of Jesus. Christ widened out the Gospel opportunity to all nations. He removed the natural ethnic preference of the Gospel that strongly inclined towards natural Israelites and drew countless millions of Gentiles into that special chosen company.
You are giving me an Amil sermon on Savlation is available to everyone. Pre-(great)trib, pre-mil are totally knowledgeable about all those verses.
That is not the issue in eschatology. There another forum available to discuss Salvation. The Soteriology forum. Salvation (Soteriology)
In eschatology, the issue is God's three point plan - the mystery of God who He has declared to His servants the prophets.
1. does God have a plan to bring Israel, the Jews, corporately speaking, to salvation in Jesus?
2. does God have a plan to end the sordid state of existence man has been in ever since the garden of eden; and replace it with man being in an idyllic existence in the everlasting Kingdom of God?
3. does God have a plan to destroy Satan and his angels, and their kingdom, forever?
Yes, to all of the above.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
None of the seven angels have sounded yet.
You were quoting verses about the faith of the patriarchs in the old testatment. But you used a word not found in the text regarding their faith - Salvation.
Change that to a person cannot please God without faith.
Hebrews11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Salvation - The only way to be saved is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, Him crucified and resurrected on the third day.
________________________________
You cannot make the church into the nation of Israel.
So, they won't be required to put their faith in Christ in order to be saved? They will just receive it one day based on their nationality? Is that what you think? If so, where does scripture ever teach that anyone has ever, is now, or will ever be saved based on their nationality?Good point, for Israel, salvation is only received when they are ushered into the kingdom of heaven on Earth (Acts 3:19-21, Hebrews 8:12, 1 Peter 1:9).
Do you believe that God has been withholding salvation from all Israelites for the past 2,000 years or so? If so, how do you explain the accounts of thousands of them being saved beginning on the day of Pentecost?Since covenant theologians believe that present salvation was available at all times, they cannot understand this point.
So, they won't be required to put their faith in Christ in order to be saved? They will just receive it one day based on their nationality? Is that what you think? If so, where does scripture ever teach that anyone has ever, is now, or will ever be saved based on their nationality?
Do you believe that God has been withholding salvation from all Israelites for the past 2,000 years or so? If so, how do you explain the accounts of thousands of them being saved beginning on the day of Pentecost?
Do you not believe the scriptures which teach that God wants all people to repent and to be saved (Acts 17:30, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 1 John 2:1-2, etc.), which would include all Israelites? Why do you postpone their salvation when God does not? All of them have the opportunity for salvation now and that has been the case ever since Christ died for their sins and the sins of the whole world.
If you had the chance to witness to a Jew would you refrain from doing so because you don't believe that person can be saved now?
Salvation for Israel is always tied to the promised kingdom. Haven't you realized the final question the 11 asked of Jesus before they will never see him again in Acts 1:6?
It was not "So are we finally saved now that you have risen from the dead", but rather is about whether the promised kingdom will finally begin for them.
As for your last question, since the fall of Israel as a nation, all Jews are considered uncircumcised and hence are saved like us, thru the Body of Christ.
But when the Tribulation begins, the nation of Israel will once again be God's favored nation. That will be when all gentiles will be cut off once again (Romans 11:22)
Both passages are referring to the nation of Israel, the latter refers to the little flock from that nation who believes.
Neither refers to the Body of Christ. We can agree to disagree there.
You were unable to support your Pretrib theory with one single Scripture. Now you have turned the Premil theory and you are repeating the same trait. You were unable to support your Premil theory with one single Scripture.
The two verses that go before Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) support the idea of a spiritual kingdom. The two verses that follow Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) show the Lord giving a spiritual response to their question.
Before the question came Christ was exhorting the disciples on the need for patience as they awaited the empowerment of the Holy Ghost to take the Gospel out to “the whosoever.” Everything about the context is spiritual. The Lord was stating “that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence” (Acts 1:4-5).
Surely an unbiased look at these introductory comments would give us insight into what the Lord was teaching and what actually provoked the question that followed it. Undoubtedly the Lord was giving spiritual instruction about a spiritual kingdom that would shortly come with great power and fire? This is not territorial language.
What is “the Promise of the Father” here? Is it a material physical kingdom or is it a spiritual heavenly kingdom? Is it a millennial kingdom similar to this evil age, filled with death and rebellion, or was He speaking of the power of the Holy Ghost that would fall upon the disciples to empower them to bring the good news of Christ to all nations – starting in Jerusalem?
Christ was speaking of Pentecost. He said the disciples would not die until they had “seen the kingdom come with power” – referring here the Church’s baptism of fire to win a lost world. It didn’t mean they would die when that happened.
The disciples then interjected with a question: “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”
Premillennialists attribute much extravagant, extensive and grandiose detail to this simple question. They build a whole school of thought pertaining to a supposed period after the second coming out of this basic inquiry. They call it a millennial age and make it a Jewish-orientated kingdom. Nevertheless, and significantly, New Testament Scripture knows nothing of such an old-covenant-type Jewish age. That has been reduced to the history books.
What Premillennialists fail to see is: there is no mention of a future period after the second coming in the question, neither is there any intimation of that. There is not even any mention of the second coming, never mind a belief in a thousand-year reign of Christ on a still corrupt earth! No one could derive such a doctrine from this straightforward question. It would have to be taught elsewhere for it to enjoy veracity.
The most that we could take from this is that they may indeed have anticipated the introduction of a parochial, territorial and old-covenant-type physical kingdom. But that is far from a foregone conclusion. We can only, at best, speculate on that. Even if that was their assumption, that in no way proves that it was a legitimate hope. The disciples were often misguided in their expectations and narrow-minded in their tribal aspirations. They frequently saw no further than the borders of Israel. We see that played in the book of Acts, with their reluctance to advance the Gospel to the Gentiles.
It is hard to read the motives and intention of the question. Many times, the disciples were not getting the full meaning of Christ’s teaching. He sent His whole ministry correcting and re-directing them. So it could have been a patriotic desire. But Christ’s response nails it. That is what is key, not the disciples question. Premils tend to ignore the context and response and just talk about one verse in this narrative. That is because it suits their theology.
1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The epistle was written to Christian believers in the identified areas.
Nothing to do with your nation of Israel, and nothing to do with your little flock.