What it means to have dead faith

FreeGrace2

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Yes, how can a dead person cooperate with being made alive from the dead ?
John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Freegrace: "I disagree. God does not cause belief."




1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.



Freegrace: "This was in answer to the crowd's question of "what does God REQUIRE for eternal life?"


He that believes and baptized ( of the baptism and circumcision made without hands) shall be saved

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Not sure what you have proved here. Please clarify.
 
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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
If that is true, then please quote the verse that says so.
At the end of this comment I will.
-------------------------
I did not list the myriad of passages that mention belief by itself because there are many, and as I said, they are incomplete.
Well then, you have to believe that most of the teaching in the Bible is incomplete. That is quite wrong.

However, I will mention that there is only one place in all of Scripture where “faith alone” or “faith only” or “belief alone” or “belief only” can be found in Scripture. And that is in James 2:24 - “You see then that a man is justified by his actions, and NOT faith only.”
Those who understand James know what James was talking about. In 2:24 he was not speaking about justification before God, as Paul was, which really confused Calvin, but rather, speaking about our lives before others.

In order to be justified in the eyes of others, our faith MUST be demonstrated by deeds.

Simple as that.

A few verses that show that our lives are not only before God but before others.

Rom 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man. so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. Here, John was teaching what James was in ch 2.
 
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Doug Brents

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I see, so that is what rightly dividing truth means to you, take every truth as truth for you?
Truth is truth. God does not have a truth for you, and a different truth for me, and a different truth for someone else. The same truth applies to everyone under the NT. OT truths do not apply to us because the OT was replaced completely by the NT.
 
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Doug Brents

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Well then, you have to believe that most of the teaching in the Bible is incomplete. That is quite wrong.

Not at all. The Bible is not just a collection of separate works by separate people compiled because they sounded good together.
The Bible is the result on a single author (the Holy Spirit) who used the hands of many men to write down His words. If the directed audience for one part of His work already knew part of His message He didn’t always put that part in their portion of His writing.
That is why we must consider ALL of the Bible before formulating our doctrine.

Those who understand James know what James was talking about. In 2:24 he was not speaking about justification before God, as Paul was, which really confused Calvin, but rather, speaking about our lives before others.

In order to be justified in the eyes of others, our faith MUST be demonstrated by deeds.

Simple as that.

No, God is never concerned with us being justified in the eyes of man. Our justification is solely in God’s eyes. It is He and He alone who can justify us, and He alone who’s justification means anything.

A few verses that show that our lives are not only before God but before others.

Rom 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man. so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. Here, John was teaching what James was in ch 2.
All of these passages are about our witness to others (those still outside of Christ) to bring them into the Body. Not to be justified by them, or in their eyes, but to win them to Christ by our witness.
 
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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
Well then, you have to believe that most of the teaching in the Bible is incomplete. That is quite wrong.
Not at all. The Bible is not just a collection of separate works by separate people compiled because they sounded good together.
I never suggested that.

The Bible is the result on a single author (the Holy Spirit) who used the hands of many men to write down His words. If the directed audience for one part of His work already knew part of His message He didn’t always put that part in their portion of His writing.
That is why we must consider ALL of the Bible before formulating our doctrine.
Of course the Bible is God's Word. His Word. But, ANY verse that contradicts another verse means the reader is misreading either verse or even both verses.

But your charge that so many verses are "incomplete" shows failure to communicate. I cannot agree with that.

With the vast majority of verses that specifically say that salvation/eternal life is by faith with NO OTHER requirement, your claim that "other verses" do show works involved would indicate that the Bible IS contradicted.

To leave out vitally important information is unexcusable. And that's what you have done. Render the Bible's teaching as unexcusable.

No, God is never concerned with us being justified in the eyes of man.
Let's go over what the Bible (you know, God's own Word) says about that.

Rom 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

Rom 14:18 - because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.

1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. Here, John was teaching what James taught in ch 2.

Our justification is solely in God’s eyes.
Correct, when justification is about salvation. But there is another justification; that being from others.

iow, a Christian who isn't living the Christian life is called a what? A hypocrite is what.

So, for those who claim to be Christians (believers) but have no deeds to demonstrate it, are NOT justified in the eyes of others.

So James was NOT referring to God's justification at all. As the above verses clearly prove.

God IS interested in His children being justified (not for salvation) in the eyes of others.

All of these passages are about our witness to others (those still outside of Christ) to bring them into the Body.
It's more than that. Believers who live consistent lives will be justified (as Christians) in the eyes of others, whether it leads them to Christ or not.

Another way to think of this is to think of justified as meaning "approved". So consistent believers will have a lifestyle that others (actually both believers and unbelievers) wlll approve of in the sense that the person is living consistently. iow, they are NOT hypocrites.

Not to be justified by them, or in their eyes, but to win them to Christ by our witness.
The verses are clear enough. You either believe them or you do not believe them.
 
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Guojing

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Truth is truth. God does not have a truth for you, and a different truth for me, and a different truth for someone else. The same truth applies to everyone under the NT. OT truths do not apply to us because the OT was replaced completely by the NT.

I see, so your idea of rightly dividing the word of truth is only starting from the page that says NT?
 
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Doug Brents

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With the vast majority of verses that specifically say that salvation/eternal life is by faith with NO OTHER requirement, your claim that "other verses" do show works involved would indicate that the Bible IS contradicted.

Again we go back to “what is faith?”
Faith is belief in action. So if a verse says that we are saved through faith includes in it all the actions that are specified elsewhere that Scripture says lead to salvation.
As I said, the audience to whom the letter was originally addressed already knew that association, so it was not necessary for the Spirit to tell them again.
 
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Doug Brents

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I see, so your idea of rightly dividing the word of truth is only starting from the page that says NT?
The OT is still relevant to us because it gives us the history of God’s interaction with His people. It gives us insight into God’s character. It helps us to put the instruction in the NT into context.

But we are not subject to ANY of the commandments given in the OT that are not restated in the NT. So yes, when we are looking at how we are saved we only look for direct instruction in the NT. But the OT is still good for example and reference.
 
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Brightfame52

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FreeGrace2 said:
Well, dead people don't do anything. Their souls are not there. And by the time people die, their destiny is cemented.

But if you are only speaking of spiritually dead people, then we have the answer from Rom 10:9. It says with their heart.

Then I'd like your take on John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
Simple, they hear because Christ made them alive spiritually, thats resurrection. Just like dead lazarus heard His voice. Do you think that was lazarus natural life and ability that caused him to hear Christs voice ?
 
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Brightfame52

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John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
Just answered that. Thats a miracle performed by Christ !
 
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prophecy_uk

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For Freegrace.



1.Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.



Need the Spirit for those signs of belief.

Need a good conscience ( by the Spirit) for belief..


Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:




2. Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.


Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.



Need fruit /proof of the Spirit, and faith is a fruit of the Spirit too..

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,




3. Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."



The name must be written in our foreheads, or we do not know it, these are not defiled, they are the redeemed, with no guile without fault before God..

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.





4. Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

5. Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."



Also shown in Acts, they should repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentence..


Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:




6: Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


Need a soft heart given to believe unto righteousness, and the stony heart of unbelief taken out..


Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:




7. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.



The just live by belief, but if they draw back they die by unbelief..


Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.




8. 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.


The wise do not get to believe, or the noble, or the mighty, only the fools and those who are not, to bring to nothing that that are..


1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.




9: Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;


Beseeched then, to not receive the gift ( of grace) in vain, by giving no offence to blame the ministry, but approving ourselves as ministers of God by patience, afflictions, distresses..


2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,






10. 2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


faith to receive instruction in righteousness, to be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works..


2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.






11. 1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.


Elect through sanctification of the Spirit, obedience, the the sprinkling of the blood of Christ ( to believe in)

That is the hope we are saved by, which is also the inheritence of incorruptible, undefiled and born again confirms..


1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.






12. 2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.


Sanctification of the Spirit and if filthy, it is not believing or salvation..


2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
 
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prophecy_uk

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For Freegrace on saved..




1. John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



This is the condemnation, as men did not believe in the light, by doing evil..

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


This is when there is no condemnation ( and when they believe) by walking afteer the Spirit, not the flesh, by the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us..


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.






2. John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."


No man can receive His testimony ( to believe) they need to know ( by the Spirit of truth) that God is true, or the wrath of God is on the lying spirit ( of their father the devil)


John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.




3. John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The ones who do evil, did not hear, did not believe, but the ones who did good instead, did get to hear and believe ( the dead in evil work heard and lives with the risen Christ in righteousness)..


John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.





4. John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.



John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.





5. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord



Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.





6. 1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.



The example is the good conscience, void of offence to God and man...


1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;




7. Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.




Believing that we were under the school master, now we put away childish things, we be a m,n of God, as that which is perfect came to us and into us..


Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



8. 1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


Believing is knowing eternal life, this is Christ, those born of Christ, all unrighteousness is sin, but the sin not to death is, those born of God sin not, and the sin not unto death was the things they are now ashamed of ( for the wages of sin are death)..


1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Again we go back to “what is faith?”
Faith is belief in action.
Nope. That's an assumption. If faith is belief in action, then there would NO NEED of any command to be faithful or obedient even.

In fact the Bible has 2 verses which specifically encourage believers "to remain faithful".

Acts 11:23 - When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad, and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose,

Why this verse, IF faith is belief in action? Wouldn't believers remain faithful to the Lord without being exhorted?

Acts 14:22 - strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.

Neither verse would be necessary IF faith is belief in action.

So if a verse says that we are saved through faith includes in it all the actions that are specified elsewhere that Scripture says lead to salvation.
Please show me ANYWHERE ELSE where Scripture specifies that faith is belief in action.

As I said, the audience to whom the letter was originally addressed already knew that association, so it was not necessary for the Spirit to tell them again.
Then Acts 11:23 and 14:22 wouldn't have been necessary.

And NO, the Bible wasn't just written for the local audience. It was written for ALL believers throughout the centuries.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Simple, they hear because Christ made them alive spiritually, thats resurrection.
It seems you didn't even read John 5:24. It says "the dead will hear".

It doesn't say what you presume: "the dead will be made apiritually alive and then hear".

Just like dead lazarus heard His voice. Do you think that was lazarus natural life and ability that caused him to hear Christs voice ?
He was physically dead when he heard Jesus' command. Where do you find any evidence that he was resurrected from death before he heard?

Again, just presumption.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Just answered that. Thats a miracle performed by Christ !
Nope. The verse is clear; the dead will hear. Not, as you presume, "the dead will be given life so that they can then hear".

Presumption will get you nowhere.
 
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FreeGrace2

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For Freegrace.

1.Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Need the Spirit for those signs of belief.
Need a good conscience ( by the Spirit) for belief..
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

2. Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Need fruit /proof of the Spirit, and faith is a fruit of the Spirit too..
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

3. Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

The name must be written in our foreheads, or we do not know it, these are not defiled, they are the redeemed, with no guile without fault before God..
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

4. Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

5. Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Also shown in Acts, they should repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentence..

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

6: Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Need a soft heart given to believe unto righteousness, and the stony heart of unbelief taken out..

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

7. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
The just live by belief, but if they draw back they die by unbelief..

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

8. 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

The wise do not get to believe, or the noble, or the mighty, only the fools and those who are not, to bring to nothing that that are..

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

9: Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Beseeched then, to not receive the gift ( of grace) in vain, by giving no offence to blame the ministry, but approving ourselves as ministers of God by patience, afflictions, distresses..

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

10. 2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

faith to receive instruction in righteousness, to be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works..

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

11. 1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

Elect through sanctification of the Spirit, obedience, the the sprinkling of the blood of Christ ( to believe in)

That is the hope we are saved by, which is also the inheritence of incorruptible, undefiled and born again confirms..

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

12. 2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Sanctification of the Spirit and if filthy, it is not believing or salvation..

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
You've got to be kidding! It would take SEVERAL posts to address every verse you have mashed up or twisted.

None of them support regeneration before faith, or any other Calvinist doctrine.
 
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FreeGrace2

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For Freegrace on saved..
Another extremely long post. Why are you giving me verses on salvation? I have my own list of about 24.

I'm not going to address your verses because it would again take SEVERAL posts to do that.

Instead, go through your own list and pick out ONLY the ones that show anything MORE THAN faith for salvation.

If you believe that only faith is required, we are on the same page. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Doug Brents

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Please show me ANYWHERE ELSE where Scripture specifies that faith is belief in action.

Then Acts 11:23 and 14:22 wouldn't have been necessary.

And NO, the Bible wasn't just written for the local audience. It was written for ALL believers throughout the centuries.

All of Heb 11 is an expose on faith. The very first verse gives a definition of the word. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. It is something we can see, touch, feel, experience; in othe words, it is something we do. An action verb or an active noun. There is nothing passive about faith, as James is so clear about in James 2.

And as I said, the letters that comprise the Bible were written to specific people that the authors (and the Holy Spirit) knew already knew certain information. So they didn’t always spell out what they expected the direct audience to already know. But when you put the whole body of Scripture together, you get the full picture that may not be clear from just one letter.
 
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Guojing

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The OT is still relevant to us because it gives us the history of God’s interaction with His people. It gives us insight into God’s character. It helps us to put the instruction in the NT into context.

But we are not subject to ANY of the commandments given in the OT that are not restated in the NT. So yes, when we are looking at how we are saved we only look for direct instruction in the NT. But the OT is still good for example and reference.

Yes, I can see to many Christians, they only divide between OT and NT.
 
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