Hebrews 8 shows us that Christ gave the TEN Commandments - Christ's Commandments

[BobRyan]

Again, if it carries over, it gets covered.

Matthew 5:33-37

Colossians 3:8

Matt 5 is a good example of a chapter that never quotes "do not take God's name in vain".

Rev 14:7 is a good example of a text that quotes directly from the Sabbath commandment verse Exodus 20:11.

But neither of those points matter in terms of "deleting scripture" or making it void. No text says "whatever is not repeated is to be considered deleted".

In Matt 5 Jesus says we are not to teach that Jesus came abolish the Law of God.

Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law".

And that Law includes the "Ten" having "' honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

 

[klutedavid]

I have never read any scripture telling us God's laws are against us.

You may need to read the scripture more carefully. The law written on stone tablets was fatal to all who gazed upon it.

2 Corinthians 3:2-8

You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

The 10 commandments written on stone tablets are the ministry of death.

 

[BABerean2]

On the contrary - there is only "ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 and THAT very same Gospel "was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.

Context...


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

.

 

[BobRyan]

On the contrary - there is only "ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 and THAT very same Gospel "was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.

The NEW Covenant IS that one and only Gospel covenant and it can be found in Jer 31:31-34 where we find "I WILL Make a NEW Covenant... THIS IS the Covenant I will make..." which includes " I will write My law on their heart ", it includes adoption into the family of God AND forgiveness of sins according to Jer 31.

That "LAW written on the heart" under the ONE Gospel NEW Covenant - is the moral LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his contemporary readers..

Instead of "ignoring" the Gospel NEW Covenant - our doctrine "relies on it"

"Abraham SAW My day and was glad" John 8:56

Context...

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

hmm - maybe that is your way of posting "in agreement"???

 

[BobRyan]

You may need to read the scripture more carefully. The law written on stone tablets was fatal to all who gazed upon it.
.

That Law is the one that has "' honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 and applies to all mankind - even saints.

Rom 3:31 "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"

But as you appear to point out - Paul says in Rom 8:4-12 the lost "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"

 

[klutedavid]

That Law is the one that has "' honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 and applies to all mankind - even saints.

Rom 3:31 "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"

But as you appear to point out - Paul says in Rom 8:4-12 the lost "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"

Nothing to do with my post as usual.

 

[BABerean2]

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"

Taking one verse out of context to make a doctrine work, is bad enough, but now you are even chopping up the verses???


1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
1Co 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Co 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.


Is this what it takes to make the SDA doctrine work?

.

 

[Cribstyl]

Heb 8:6-12 makes it very clear that Christ is the one speaking at Sinai

1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord set up, not man... 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no circumstances would have been sought for a second. 8 For in finding fault with the people, He (Christ) says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (Christ),
When I (Christ) will bring about a new covenant
With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
On the day I (Christ) took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I (Christ) did not care about them, says the Lord (Christ).
10 For this is the covenant which I (Christ) will make with the house of Israel
After those days, declares the Lord:
I (Christ) will put My (Christ) laws into their minds,
And write them on their hearts.
And I (Christ) will be their God,
And they shall be My (Christ) people.
11 And they will not teach, each one his fellow citizen,
And each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For they will all know Me (Christ),
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I (Christ) will be merciful toward their wrongdoings,
And their sins I (Christ) will no longer remember.”
===============================

So then the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 known to Jeremiah and his readers writes the LAW of God "on heart and mind". That includes the TEN according to Paul in Eph 6:2 having "honor your father and mother as the first commandment WITH a promise". And even in the NT - "Sin IS the transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. Which means it is "still a sin" - to take God's name in vain (Ex 20:7) - even for born again Christians.

So then NO such thing as "God's covenant deleted/removed/annulled/set-aside/made void" - the Commandments of God.

Rather "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Where saints are commanded to "fulfill" compliance with those commandments found in the Law of Moses as noted by Christ in Matt 19 where He says "KEEP the Commandments" - and Paul quotes from that same list in Rom 13.

Rom 3:"31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."



===============================

We can notice that the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers included the TEN - as Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations freely admit


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


That is a good example of a text that does not say "the Commandments of God have been made obsolete" but rather the old covenant is obsolete for those under the New Covenant.

Here is another one "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

No wonder these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians and the Sabbath in Eden for all mankind from Eden to the cross.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

I like it when Christians from many different points of view can all agree on the same obvious Bible details.

Wait a minute, stop the record scraaaaachhhhh.
Your OP objective is debunked because you're parsing scriptures that don't fit together.
Yes, It's a fact that Heb 8:1-6 is talking about Christ, but Heb 8:7-12 is a OT prophecy from Jer 31:34. This is not Christ, it's God the Father.
The 3 persons of the Godhead is one God, but they have individual personalities,


Heb 8:7

¶
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[Cribstyl]

Taking one verse out of context to make a doctrine work, is bad enough, but now you are even chopping up the verses???


1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
1Co 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Co 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.


Is this what it takes to make the SDA doctrine work?

.

Yep, Paul is talking about the commandment from Jesus that he was teaching and not specifically the 10.com. They easily hide behind text taken out of context.
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

SDA keep their doctrines alive by what they call The Sabbath School lessons. It's a booklet that uses commentary, partial quotes, and multiple isolated scriptures to establish their truth.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yep, Paul is talking about the commandment from Jesus that he was teaching and not specifically the 10.com. They easily hide behind text taken out of context.
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

SDA keep their doctrines alive by what they call The Sabbath School lessons. It's a booklet that uses commentary, partial quotes, and multiple isolated scriptures to establish their truth.

You mean the doctrine that is written in the scripture?. The one where God commanded us to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy Exodus 20:8-11 and we are to keep holy the same day that is the holy day of the Lord thy God Isaiah 58:13 according to God. The Sabbath is referenced over 170 times in scriptures Jesus going to the Temple on Sabbath reading from the holy scripture Luke 4:16 as well as His disciples. Acts 18:4

Your argument is not with anyone on this forum. We all have one God we all have to answer to. When Jesus asks why did I keep the seventh day Sabbath and keep His commandment I can say because You not only spoke it you wrote it with your own finger and promised it would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and the Sabbath day we are told will be the day we worship You on the New Heaven and New Earth Isaiah 66:23 and God’s will in Heaven is not different than His will for us on earth according to Jesus who taught us the Lord’s Prayer. I will have scripture to back up way I kept the commandment of God. What are you going to tell Jesus? - Where is the commandment to keep holy any other day except the seventh day? Where does it say God’s holy day is anything other than the seventh day Sabbath? Jesus told us to obey the commandments of God over traditions and keeping traditions over commandments we are worshipping in vain. Matthew 15:3-9. We all have free will, but your argument is with our Most High not me or anyone else. We try to help, but just like the days of Noah it will be like the second coming of our Savior and no one believed Noah either. Now we have clear scripture so I would not be so quick to disregard God’s holy laws.

 

[BABerean2]

You mean the doctrine that is written in the scripture?. The one where God commanded us to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy Exodus 20:8-11 and we are to keep holy the same day that is the holy day of the Lord thy God Isaiah 58:13 according to God. The Sabbath is referenced over 170 times in scriptures Jesus going to the Temple on Sabbath reading from the holy scripture Luke 4:16 as well as His disciples. Acts 18:4

Your argument is not with anyone on this forum. We all have one God we all have to answer to. When Jesus asks why did I keep the seventh day Sabbath and keep His commandment I can say because You not only spoke it you wrote it with your own finger and promised it would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and the Sabbath day we are told will be the day we worship You on the New Heaven and New Earth Isaiah 66:23 and God’s will in Heaven is not different than His will for us on earth according to Jesus who taught us the Lord’s Prayer. I will have scripture to back up way I kept the commandment of God. What are you going to tell Jesus? - Where is the commandment to keep holy any other day except the seventh day? Where does it say God’s holy day is anything other than the seventh day Sabbath? Jesus told us to obey the commandments of God over traditions and keeping traditions over commandments we are worshipping in vain. Matthew 15:3-9. We all have free will, but your argument is with our Most High not me or anyone else. We try to help, but just like the days of Noah it will be like the second coming of our Savior and no one believed Noah either. Now we have clear scripture so I would not be so quick to disregard God’s holy laws.

Do you deny there are two different sets of commandments in the verses below?


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.



Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


.

 

[Cribstyl]

You mean the doctrine that is written in the scripture?. The one where God commanded us to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy Exodus 20:8-11 and we are to keep holy the same day that is the holy day of the Lord thy God Isaiah 58:13 according to God. The Sabbath is referenced over 170 times in scriptures Jesus going to the Temple on Sabbath reading from the holy scripture Luke 4:16 as well as His disciples. Acts 18:4

Your argument is not with anyone on this forum. We all have one God we all have to answer to. When Jesus asks why did I keep the seventh day Sabbath and keep His commandment I can say because You not only spoke it you wrote it with your own finger and promised it would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and the Sabbath day we are told will be the day we worship You on the New Heaven and New Earth Isaiah 66:23 and God’s will in Heaven is not different than His will for us on earth according to Jesus who taught us the Lord’s Prayer. I will have scripture to back up way I kept the commandment of God. What are you going to tell Jesus? - Where is the commandment to keep holy any other day except the seventh day? Where does it say God’s holy day is anything other than the seventh day Sabbath? Jesus told us to obey the commandments of God over traditions and keeping traditions over commandments we are worshipping in vain. Matthew 15:3-9. We all have free will, but your argument is with our Most High not me or anyone else. We try to help, but just like the days of Noah it will be like the second coming of our Savior and no one believed Noah either. Now we have clear scripture so I would not be so quick to disregard God’s holy laws.

Your so-called doctrine written in scripture is confusion at best. You know that those scripture are taken out of context. Here's the truth:
Both you and BobRyan often post this partial text below from 1Cor 7 as if Paul is talking about the 10.com. My response is to BobRyan posting " 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God".
Not only is he fabricating the idea that Paul is saying Keep the 10 commandments. He edits from the text; "circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing" .
Circumcision means you must keep the all the law and uncircumcision means you were not given the law.
That's the truth you guy must edit out and ignore from Paul's doctrine.
Gal 5:1¶Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Paul is teaching us that we don't have to be circumcised and keep the law, because the law is a yoke of bondage. And righteousness is by faith apart from the law.

So all those text and commentary forces you to edit and ignore the truth.

 

[BobRyan]

The fact that Isa 56 is a prophecy about Gentile joining Israel as proselytes

Is 56:6 is written to gentiles who already are keeping Sabbath not "who one day in the future will choose to no longer profane God's Sabbath".. That language is not in Is 56:6

 

[BobRyan]

Your so-called doctrine written in scripture is confused... .

Not for those who like "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

. You know that those scripture are taken out of context. .

When the more quote of the scripture is sufficient to give rise to your strong objection to it - it reveals that for some "inconvenient scripture" is "scripture hopefully out of context".

 

[BobRyan]

Both you and BobRyan often post this partial text below from 1Cor 7 as if Paul is talking about the 10.com. My response is to BobRyan posting " 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God".
Not only is he fabricating the idea that Paul is saying Keep the 10 commandments. He edits from the text; "circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing" .

And I respond repeatedly that this is even worse for your case - because 1 Cor 7:19 shows a distinction between the moral law of God vs the ceremonial law "circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but what matters is KEEPING the COMMANDMENTs of GOD" having "' honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in that still valid unit of TEN.

It shows the VERY distinction between the two forms of Law that Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations admit to - regarding the TEN as being in the moral law of God given to mankind in Eden and written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34.

It is the very distinction you appear to have "hoped" would not "exist"

If I have posted it once - I have posted it 50 times. Yet you post as if this is "news" every time I post it.

Worse than that - you then post "the very flaw" that is in your own logic by bringing up the contrast in 1 Cor 7:19 between the moral law (the Commandments of God) and the ceremonial law "as if" that is helping your argument.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"?

 

[BobRyan]

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

A good example of a text that does NOT say "He made the Commandments of God obsolete".
A good example of a text that DOES say that the TEN commandments given at Sinai are CHRIST's commandments - with Christ being the one speaking.

 

[BobRyan]

Your OP objective is debunked because you're parsing scriptures that don't fit together.

Those scriptures fit perfectly it is called "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine. You might like to try it.

The fact that you find this or that scripture to be "inconvenient" does not make it wrong or out of place. I think we can all agree on that.

Yes, It's a fact that Heb 8:1-6 is talking about Christ, but Heb 8:7-12 is a OT prophecy from Jer 31:34.

Heb 8:1-6 sets the context for Heb 8:7-12 just at the point when you apparently wish "it did not". It shows who the one speaking is - ... it is Christ.

How is that a problem for anyone but "you" in that case?.

=========================== As already seen in the OP


1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord set up, not man... 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no circumstances would have been sought for a second. 8 For in finding fault with the people, He (Christ) says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (Christ),
When I (Christ) will bring about a new covenant
With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
On the day I (Christ) took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I (Christ) did not care about them, says the Lord (Christ).
10 For this is the covenant which I (Christ) will make with the house of Israel
After those days, declares the Lord:
I (Christ) will put My (Christ) laws into their minds,
And write them on their hearts.
And I (Christ) will be their God,
And they shall be My (Christ) people.
11 And they will not teach, each one his fellow citizen,
And each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For they will all know Me (Christ),
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I (Christ) will be merciful toward their wrongdoings,
And their sins I (Christ) will no longer remember.”
===============================

So then the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 known to Jeremiah and his readers writes the LAW of God "on heart and mind". That includes the TEN according to Paul in Eph 6:2 having "honor your father and mother as the first commandment WITH a promise". And even in the NT - "Sin IS the transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. Which means it is "still a sin" - to take God's name in vain (Ex 20:7) - even for born again Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

The 3 persons of the Godhead is one God, but they have individual personalities,

Which is yet "another" reason why Christ speaking at Sinai according to Heb 8 is so devastating to the "Christ's Commandments are not at Sinai" speculations that are sooooo often posted.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your so-called doctrine written in scripture is confusion at best. You know that those scripture are taken out of context. Here's the truth:
Both you and BobRyan often post this partial text below from 1Cor 7 as if Paul is talking about the 10.com. My response is to BobRyan posting " 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God".
Not only is he fabricating the idea that Paul is saying Keep the 10 commandments. He edits from the text; "circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing" .
Circumcision means you must keep the all the law and uncircumcision means you were not given the law.
That's the truth you guy must edit out and ignore from Paul's doctrine.
Gal 5:1¶Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Paul is teaching us that we don't have to be circumcised and keep the law, because the law is a yoke of bondage. And righteousness is by faith apart from the law.

So all those text and commentary forces you to edit and ignore the truth.

And the next verse…

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

How do we show love to God according to scripture? Through obedience. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

If we are walking with God's Spirit we are obeying because God's laws are written on the heart in the New Covenant and we fulfill the laws through faith and our obedience. Jerm 31:33 and the Spirit is given to those who keep the commandments. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32