"JUSTIFICATION": to the wicked, or to the just?

[DaDaBrothers]

First let me show you a verse from Brenton's Septuagint Translation:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

In this translation it is a commandment, to not justify the wicked. And "for gifts" is a reference to bribery. As we should not accept "free gifts" they are bribery. 8"Do not accept bribe[...]". At least in this context of justification.

In NLT it reads: "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent." The "I" is refering to the God of Israel, and in other translations it says He will not justify the wicked.

And this "wicked" is anyone who breaks God's Law: sinners, guilty, ungodly are all synonyms commonly used, and can be found in Strong's. These are the people God won't justify.
Woe to them:
Isaiah 5:22 Woe to the strong ones of you that drink wine, and the mighty ones that mingle strong drink:
23who justify the ungodly for rewards, and take away the righteousness of the righteous.

Here we see that, it is the sinners that justify the ungodly, not God, and these sinners justify the ungodly "for rewards" or for a bribe.

We also have this verse from NASB:
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

It is evident the true God of Israel will not justify the sinner, neither the wicked, nor the ungodly. Not only that, but anyone who does, is probably a sinner who did it for a reward, and they are all an abomination to the LORD.

And now we have this verse, I took from Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

Excuse me, what? "The One who justifies sinners"? Who would that be?
Surely it isn't the God of Israel, who said He will not justify sinners, and He cannot contradict Himself.
Keep in mind this is to "the one who does not labor" meaning the sinners who do not keep the works of the Law, like the commandments. To them it is "credited" righteousness, almost like a "free gift", reminds me of bribery. And all they have to do is believe on "the one who justifies sinners".

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

 

[Dave L]

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” Romans 5:8–10 (KJV 1900)

 

[Abaxvahl]

First let me show you a verse from Brenton's Septuagint Translation:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

In this translation it is a commandment, to not justify the wicked. And "for gifts" is a reference to bribery. As we should not accept "free gifts" they are bribery. 8"Do not accept bribe[...]". At least in this context of justification.

In NLT it reads: "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent." The "I" is refering to the God of Israel, and in other translations it says He will not justify the wicked.

And this "wicked" is anyone who breaks God's Law: sinners, guilty, ungodly are all synonyms commonly used, and can be found in Strong's. These are the people God won't justify.
Woe to them:
Isaiah 5:22 Woe to the strong ones of you that drink wine, and the mighty ones that mingle strong drink:
23who justify the ungodly for rewards, and take away the righteousness of the righteous.

Here we see that, it is the sinners that justify the ungodly, not God, and these sinners justify the ungodly "for rewards" or for a bribe.

We also have this verse from NASB:
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

It is evident the true God of Israel will not justify the sinner, neither the wicked, nor the ungodly. Not only that, but anyone who does, is probably a sinner who did it for a reward, and they are all an abomination to the LORD.

And now we have this verse, I took from Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

Excuse me, what? "The One who justifies sinners"? Who would that be?
Surely it isn't the God of Israel, who said He will not justify sinners, and He cannot contradict Himself.
Keep in mind this is to "the one who does not labor" meaning the sinners who do not keep the works of the Law, like the commandments. To them it is "credited" righteousness, almost like a "free gift", reminds me of bribery. And all they have to do is believe on "the one who justifies sinners".

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

There is simply two sorts of "justification" being spoken of by the context. Justifying in perverting justice and defending sin and justification as an act of salvation for sinners (for the Lord Jesus says "I came to call sinners not those righteous in their own eyes"). Sinners know what they have done and seek mercy for God, He does not justify them in the sense of the passages you quoted, perverting justice and declaring that what they have done is good or taking bribes (for the gift is not purchased by any work or thing creatures have, He has all things already), but justifies them as in saving them by grace through faith.

Do not conflate the senses.

 

[prophecy_uk]

DaDaBrothers: "So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?"


He ( man) cannot justify sinners ( the wicked and ungodly)

We believe on Him ( the Lord God Jesus Christ) who justified the ungodly by being numbered with them to bare the sin of many and to make intercessionh for the transgressors, which was fulfilled..

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Mark 15:27 And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.



Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.




It is God that justifies, that overcomes the charges ( of the devil) as Christ overcame for us, and we overcome as He overcame..

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.




As for gifts, that you left out, Exodus 23:8, they blind the wise and pervert the words of the righteous, no respecting of persons or gifts, to blind the eyes and pervert the words of the righteous..



Deuteronomy 16:19 Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.

Exodus 23:8 And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.

 

[DaDaBrothers]

There is simply two sorts of "justification"

The word is the same in all passages. In Exodus 23:7 is God speaking of Himself, and He cannot justify sinners. And the other two are showing you that it is man, not God, who justifies sinners.
The difference is Justified (in the eyes of God), only the just can be justified.
And justified (in their own eyes), sinners justified by man, not God.

The real justification of God is only for the just, God cannot justify sinners.

Him ( the Lord God Jesus Christ) who justified the ungodly

Nope, Jesus does not justify the wicked, if you say He does you are calling Him an abomination. Sinners justify the wicked. Jesus is not a sinner He is the Son of God, and His Father said He will not justify the wicked.

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.

 

[Dave L]

The word is the same in all passages. In Exodus 23:7 is God speaking of Himself, and He cannot justify sinners. And the other two are showing you that it is man, not God, who justifies sinners.
The difference is Justified (in the eyes of God), only the just can be justified.
And justified (in their own eyes), sinners justified by man, not God.

The real justification of God is only for the just, God cannot justify sinners.



Nope, Jesus does not justify the wicked, if you say He does you are calling Him an abomination. Sinners justify the wicked. Jesus is not a sinner He is the Son of God, and His Father said He will not justify the wicked.

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” Romans 5:8–10 (KJV 1900)

 

[Abaxvahl]

The word is the same in all passages. In Exodus 23:7 is God speaking of Himself, and He cannot justify sinners. And the other two are showing you that it is man, not God, who justifies sinners.
The difference is Justified (in the eyes of God), only the just can be justified.
And justified (in their own eyes), sinners justified by man, not God.

The real justification of God is only for the just, God cannot justify sinners.

The same word can mean different things. No one becomes just except through God, your interpretation is butchered, blasphemous, and overturns the Gospel to rely on man's own "justice" as the basis for being justified by God. But on the contrary God condemns you as being unjust through St. Paul the Apostle and the Psalmist saying:

"For we have charged both Jews, and Greeks, that they are all under sin. As it is written: There is not any man just. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

But can sinners be made just through God? Yes, for St. Paul goes on:

"For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God. Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus, Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins, Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of his justice in this time; that he himself may be just, and the justifier of him, who is of the faith of Jesus Christ."

 

[DaDaBrothers]

@Dave L
Only the just can be Justified by God, you are not justified just because Christ died for you.
He forgives, you repent and keep the commandmants, then you can be justified as just.
God will not justify sinners.

 

[DaDaBrothers]

No one becomes just except through God

Exactly, and to be justified by God, you must be just, because God will not justify sinners.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Exactly, and to be justified by God, you must be just, because God will not justify sinners.

Read my post, I edited it. No one is just, anyone who becomes just was a sinner. God gives justification to sinners, all are condemned as unjust. If you had read the Scriptures you would know this. He does not justify us in the sense of declaring sin to be righteous, but as in giving us saving grace to become children of God, forgiving us through Christ, and so on.

 

[DaDaBrothers]

God gives justification to sinners

Not justification, God will not justify sinners (Exodus 23:7)
If you say He does you are lying, calling God an abomination. (Proverbs 17:15)

I understand God forgives sinners, but God does not justify sinners.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Not justification, God will not justify sinners (Exodus 23:7)
If you say He does you are lying, calling God an abomination. (Proverbs 17:15)

I understand God forgives sinners, but God does not justify sinners.

Then I suppose you are greater than St. Paul, a liar who called God an abomination. And greater than Christ who consecrated Him an Apostle, and better than the Most Holy Trinity itself.

 

[DaDaBrothers]

I am not and you dont have to believe me, just read the verses man.
And dont accuse me.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Nope, Jesus does not justify the wicked, if you say He does you are calling Him an abomination. Sinners justify the wicked. Jesus is not a sinner He is the Son of God, and His Father said He will not justify the wicked

With all due respect, the wicked and the sinner are the same group. I belive you are making something up that is not in scripture. You totally missed the point of Romans , justification through faith and NOT the Law.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

First let me show you a verse from Brenton's Septuagint Translation:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

In this translation it is a commandment, to not justify the wicked. And "for gifts" is a reference to bribery. As we should not accept "free gifts" they are bribery. 8"Do not accept bribe[...]". At least in this context of justification.

In NLT it reads: "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent." The "I" is refering to the God of Israel, and in other translations it says He will not justify the wicked.

And this "wicked" is anyone who breaks God's Law: sinners, guilty, ungodly are all synonyms commonly used, and can be found in Strong's. These are the people God won't justify.
Woe to them:
Isaiah 5:22 Woe to the strong ones of you that drink wine, and the mighty ones that mingle strong drink:
23who justify the ungodly for rewards, and take away the righteousness of the righteous.

Here we see that, it is the sinners that justify the ungodly, not God, and these sinners justify the ungodly "for rewards" or for a bribe.

We also have this verse from NASB:
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

It is evident the true God of Israel will not justify the sinner, neither the wicked, nor the ungodly. Not only that, but anyone who does, is probably a sinner who did it for a reward, and they are all an abomination to the LORD.

And now we have this verse, I took from Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

Excuse me, what? "The One who justifies sinners"? Who would that be?
Surely it isn't the God of Israel, who said He will not justify sinners, and He cannot contradict Himself.
Keep in mind this is to "the one who does not labor" meaning the sinners who do not keep the works of the Law, like the commandments. To them it is "credited" righteousness, almost like a "free gift", reminds me of bribery. And all they have to do is believe on "the one who justifies sinners".

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

Oh! Welcome to CF!

 

[Aussie Pete]

First let me show you a verse from Brenton's Septuagint Translation:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

In this translation it is a commandment, to not justify the wicked. And "for gifts" is a reference to bribery. As we should not accept "free gifts" they are bribery. 8"Do not accept bribe[...]". At least in this context of justification.

In NLT it reads: "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent." The "I" is refering to the God of Israel, and in other translations it says He will not justify the wicked.

And this "wicked" is anyone who breaks God's Law: sinners, guilty, ungodly are all synonyms commonly used, and can be found in Strong's. These are the people God won't justify.
Woe to them:
Isaiah 5:22 Woe to the strong ones of you that drink wine, and the mighty ones that mingle strong drink:
23who justify the ungodly for rewards, and take away the righteousness of the righteous.

Here we see that, it is the sinners that justify the ungodly, not God, and these sinners justify the ungodly "for rewards" or for a bribe.

We also have this verse from NASB:
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

It is evident the true God of Israel will not justify the sinner, neither the wicked, nor the ungodly. Not only that, but anyone who does, is probably a sinner who did it for a reward, and they are all an abomination to the LORD.

And now we have this verse, I took from Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

Excuse me, what? "The One who justifies sinners"? Who would that be?
Surely it isn't the God of Israel, who said He will not justify sinners, and He cannot contradict Himself.
Keep in mind this is to "the one who does not labor" meaning the sinners who do not keep the works of the Law, like the commandments. To them it is "credited" righteousness, almost like a "free gift", reminds me of bribery. And all they have to do is believe on "the one who justifies sinners".

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

You are right that God did not justify lawbreakers under the old covenant. But God did what the law could not do. He saves sinners. He delivers them from the sinful nature. He gives them a new spirit, a new heart which is no longer sinful.

Christians are able to commit sin but they no longer produce it. Think of it like a "sin factory" where sin rolls off the production line, never ending and without effort. The "production line" in the Christian is shut down. He is still able to sin, but it's not then norm any more.
Romans 8
28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
Galatians 3:
10All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”…

Was Abraham a sinner? Indeed he was. He lied to save his own skin. Yet he also believed God and God credited this to him as righteousness. Was Abraham justified by God? Who suffered from Abraham's offence? It was Pharaoh, not Abraham.

How can God justify the sinner? It is because we are included in Christ the moment that we believe. God no longer looks at us in isolation. We are included in Christ and God regards us now as if we are Jesus. If ever we see this truth, we will be changed forever. Most Christians live as if there was still something to do to please God. They live as if God is looking over their shoulder to find the slightest flaw or hint of sin.

One of the great passages is found in Romans 5:

…8But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him! 10For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by His life!…

 

[DaDaBrothers]

Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth does not justify sinners because he is NOT an abomination.
If you say he does, you call him an abomination.
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

justification through faith and NOT the Law.

If you dont want to labor, this is how you get justified:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

"The One who justifies sinners" is not the God of Israel nor His Son.
Exodus 23:7 "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent."

You can keep believing on the "One who justifies sinners" or you can do the works of the Law, like the commandments, and worship the true God of Israel.

 

[DaDaBrothers]

He saves sinners.

You mean God forgives sinners, and delivers them from slavery, then He calls them to repentance so he can justify them and really save them.

He delivers them from the sinful nature. He gives them a new spirit, a new heart which is no longer sinful.

Yes, if they are no longer sinful, they keep His commandmants, and God will justify them.

Christians are able to commit sin but they no longer produce it.

Where is this written?
Christians who commit sin, produce death:
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Was Abraham a sinner? Indeed he was.

No he wasnt, he didnt sin because the Law was only given to Moses, later on.

How can God justify the sinner? It is because we are included in Christ the moment that we believe.

Wait a moment, are you saying that "Christians who can sin" are "included in Christ"?
You are saying Christ has sin in Him.. He does not!
In Christ there is no darkness at all:
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If you are in Him you keep His commandments:
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

You have to walk even as he walked.

And God cannot justify the sinner:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

 

[Aussie Pete]

You mean God forgives sinners, and delivers them from slavery, then He calls them to repentance so he can justify them and really save them.



Yes, if they are no longer sinful, they keep His commandmants, and God will justify them.



Where is this written?
Christians who commit sin, produce death:
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.



No he wasnt, he didnt sin because the Law was only given to Moses, later on.



Wait a moment, are you saying that "Christians who can sin" are "included in Christ"?
You are saying Christ has sin in Him.. He does not!
In Christ there is no darkness at all:
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If you are in Him you keep His commandments:
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

You have to walk even as he walked.

And God cannot justify the sinner:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

Anyone who says that he has no sin is a liar and the truth is not in him. At the same time, whatever is born of God does not sin. You don't know the difference between soul and spirit, the natural and the spiritual. Are you teachable? I doubt it. I can explain things, but I don't want to waste my time.