Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

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sovereigngrace

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It falls within the "AT HAND" time brackets for Revelation's unsealed, written prophecies in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:10, so yes, it was fulfilled, according to GOD'S definition in Ezekiel 12:21-28 of when "AT HAND" prophecies are fulfilled.

Revelation 10:4 is the lone exception that includes prophecies NOT fulfilled in those first-century days, since these were UNWRITTEN and SEALED UP for later generations.



Already over and done just before John was writing Revelation, as John said in Revelation 12:12 compared to Revelation 20:3 and 7.
  • When did/does the old covenant end?
  • When did/does the new covenant begin?
  • When did/does "the last days" begin?
  • When will "the last days" finish?
  • When is "the last day" of "the last days"?
  • What occurs on "the last day" of "the last days"?
  • When is the "end of the age"?
  • When is the day of redemption?
  • When did/does "this age" arrive?
  • When did/does "this age" end?
  • When did/does the new heavens and new earth arrive?
  • When did the kingdom of God begin?
  • When did/does "the age to come" arrive?
  • Is the second coming of Christ a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  • Is the resurrection of the dead a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  • Is the judgment of all a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  • Please list the Scriptures you believe support these?
 
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Douggg

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  • When did/does the old covenant end?
  • When did/does the new covenant begin?
  • When did/does "the last days" begin?
  • When will "the last days" finish?
  • When is "the last day" of "the last days"?
  • What occurs on "the last day" of "the last days"?
  • When is the "end of the age"?
  • When is the day of redemption?
  • When did/does "this age" arrive?
  • When did/does "this age" end?
  • When did/does the new heavens and new earth arrive?
  • When did the kingdom of God begin?
  • When did/does "the age to come" arrive?
  • Is the second coming of Christ a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  • Is the resurrection of the dead a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  • Is the judgment of all a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  • Please list the Scriptures you believe support these?
Please, no machine gunning other posters with questions. I disagree with partial preterism, but machine gunning questions is not the right approach for friendly discussions of topics in this forum.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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From AD 66-70, the city of Jerusalem fell under the powerful curses outlined in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28.

Read Deuteronomy 28 closely:
49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you. 52 “They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you.

Luke foretells of this same event, fulfilling Deuteronomy 28:
Luke 21:20-22

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

(It is important to note that Luke 21:20-22 is entirely paralell to Mark 13:14-19 & Matthew 24:15-21)

Now, Pay special attention to Leviticus 26:14-33
14 ‘But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments,
15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant,
16 I also will do this to you:
I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart.
And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 I will set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies.
Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you.
18 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 I will break the pride of your power;
I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze.
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain;
for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.
21 ‘Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and make you few in number;
and your highways shall be desolate.
23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant;
when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you;
and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.


As you can see, this is not God merely turning His back and ALLOWING these things to come upon them...

66-70 AD was the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 28:15-68, and Leviticus 26:14-33, brought to pass by the ACTIVE, WILLFUL Hand of God, exactly as He promised He would do.

Matthew 21 Gives us the timing of this fulfillment:
Matthew 21:33-45
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they understood that he spake of them.


We know this Old Covenant Judgement takes place via "The Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard" AFTER the son has been Killed.

We Know Jesus is one with the Father and therefore IS The Lord of the Vineyard, indeed He is the Great "I Am".

Revelation Clearly depicts this very Coming:
  1. Revelation 3:11
    Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

  2. Revelation 22:7
    “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

  3. Revelation 22:12
    Jesus Testifies to the Churches
    “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
The last Passage is most instructive for us, as it clearly says this coming of the Lord Jesus, who is the Lord of the Vineyard, is to Juge everyone according to their WORK, which is clearly a Judgement per the terms of the OLD COVENANT.

Your Turn. Please now answer my question from Post #126 Above.

Your meanderings do not confirm that the Revelation is about the repercussions for violations done under the Old Covenant. Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant over heavenly Jerusalem. We see this affirmed in Revelation 1:13 with Christ “clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.” This is indicative of the priestly garments, in the order in which they were put on at the consecration of Aaron to his office (Leviticus 8:7). The seven candlesticks, instrumental in the typical mediation, are also indicative of Christ's antitypical mediation. Consequently, Revelation represents Christ’s antitypical mediation and not the typical Aaronic one.

Hebrews is firm in the resolve that Christ mediates the New Covenant and not the Old (Hebrews 7:12-18; 12:22-24). Ancient Jerusalem’s destruction and the diaspora are curses under the Old Covenant, not the New. Christ merely confirms what the prophets wrote hundreds of years before him in the Olivet Discourse. Christ is the mediator of the New so his admonitions and tributes in the Revelation pertain strictly to heavenly Jerusalem. The prophecies of the destruction of Jerusalem were under the Old Covenant and by the prophets who spoke for their time. Zechariah is one of the prophets who predicted the destruction in AD 70. Zechariah 11 prophesied the destruction and diaspora of Jerusalem. The testimony of Christ is for our time, the time of the Church, which is steadfastly the subject of the Revelation, the time between the antitypical spring and autumnal festivals. The age between the antitypical spring and autumnal festivals is the time of Christ's mediation of the New Covenant, while the curses that fell upon ancient Jerusalem and scattered them were of the age before, the Old Covenant. In contrast, the sowing of the elect of Israel throughout the world is not a punishment but a commission by God to send salvation unto the ends of the earth (Isaiah 49:6), which was also prophesied in Jeremiah 31:27-28, Hosea 2:23, and Zechariah 10:7-9.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds…” (Hebrews 1:1-2).
I find preterism feeble in understanding the OT and the typical mediation.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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They're simply wrong. History proves that.

Quite the contrary. Let me cite Larkin's work.

This interpretation of the "Messages to the Seven Churches" was hidden to the early Church, because time was required for Church History to develop and be written, so a comparison could be made to reveal the correspondence, if it had been clearly revealed that the Seven Churches stood for "Seven Church Periods" that would have to elapse before Christ could come back, the incentive to watch would have been absent. Chapter 22. The Seven Churches - Dispensational Truth - Study Resources (blueletterbible.org)

There is tremendous correspondence between what the seven churches state and the history of the church in this age. We certainly live in the epoch of the Laodicean church that is "rich and increased with goods," as we definitely live in a market-driven society, for anyone with eyes that see and ears that listen.
 
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robycop3

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No, they are not. This is why I keep emphasizing GOD'S DEFINITION of what an "AT HAND" prophecy entails back in Ezekiel 12:21-28. God was very specific in the way He defined it. I challenge anybody to read that passage and be honest with themselves when understanding what "at hand" means.

An "AT HAND" prophecy, God said, would NOT be "prolonged" into "times that are far off". Instead, He would not only speak the words of the prophecy, but He would also "PERFORM" the words of that prophecy "In YOUR DAYS" for the ones first receiving that prophecy.

When we apply GOD'S definition to those "AT HAND" prophecies in Revelation, that meant Revelation's "at hand" prophecies would NOT be "Prolonged" into "times that are far off" to John's generation, but He would "PERFORM" those prophecies in THEIR DAYS.

This is not rocket science, and it is not built upon just a few time-relevant terms. Jesus made it very clear that His disciples' evangelistic coverage would "not have gone over the cities of Israel until the Son of Man be come."

He also stated that some of those disciples standing in front of Him would not have died before Christ came in His kingdom.

He also said that Christ as "the judge IS STANDING BEFORE THE DOOR" in James 5:9, at a time when the Lord's coming had already drawn near for them at that time.

There are far, far too many phrases, words, and parables that clearly point to an AD 70 bodily return of Christ in that generation. So many, that I marvel it took me so long to recognize them as the time markers that they actually were.

But since we know that none of the bodies of saints are abandoned in the grave without being changed in a resurrection, this absolutely necessitates a third bodily coming of Christ in our future at a final judgment.
Sir, it takes no rocket science to see that JESUS HAS NOT YET PHYSICALLY RETURNED. When He does, every eye shall see Him, even the eyes of those who pierced Him.(They shall see Him from hades.) Jesus Himself said He shall return IN GREAT POWER & GLORY. And when He ascended, He did so VISIBLY AND PHYSICALLY. And the 2 angels who were among those who saw Him ascend said He would retuen IN LIKE MANNER, which was physically & visibly.

And once He's back, He won't leave again.

So, you simply cannot show us any past event that fits the Scripturally-prophesied return of Jesus.
 
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robycop3

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If that is true, then John was lying when he wrote that the Scarlet Beast was "ABOUT TO ASCEND out of the abyss" (Revelation 17:8). The Scarlet Beast was ALSO "ABOUT TO...GO INTO DESTRUCTION" soon after John was writing. This Scarlet Beast's lifespan was going to be exceedingly short, once it had briefly revived for a time.

This meant a SOON arrival on the scene in John's days, and also a SOON COMING DESTRUCTION of that same Scarlet Beast.

And since the Scarlet Beast and the False Prophet / Land Beast were to be thrown in TOGETHER to the Lake of Fire, then their SOON destruction happened simultaneously as well

All this takes is some basic reading comprehension. You are mistaken in the timing of the fulfillment of this.
Sir, no matter what you say, those events have simply NOT YET HAPPENED! You simply CANNOT show us the occurrence of those events in history. That's the bottom line.
 
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robycop3

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Quite the contrary. Let me cite Larkin's work.

This interpretation of the "Messages to the Seven Churches" was hidden to the early Church, because time was required for Church History to develop and be written, so a comparison could be made to reveal the correspondence, if it had been clearly revealed that the Seven Churches stood for "Seven Church Periods" that would have to elapse before Christ could come back, the incentive to watch would have been absent. Chapter 22. The Seven Churches - Dispensational Truth - Study Resources (blueletterbible.org)

There is tremendous correspondence between what the seven churches state and the history of the church in this age. We certainly live in the epoch of the Laodicean church that is "rich and increased with goods," as we definitely live in a market-driven society, for anyone with eyes that see and ears that listen.
Sir, Clarence Larkin was right on some things & wrong on others. And he was wrong on the 7 churches. Those were EXISTING churches when Jesus dictated His letters to them to John. And there are types of all 7 of them today.

That "7 church ages" garbage was hawked in the US by a charlatan, William Marrion Branham.(D. 1965) Many of his sermons were recorded, & still played today on some radio progs & on certain websites. This is but another false doctrine on the order of the KJVO myth & the preterism myth.
 
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robycop3

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That completely contradicts the verses I gave you.

And no, it doesn't say He will reign with His saints. It says they will reign with Him.
Ephesians 2: 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
The church started at Pentecost, so from the following, show me where it ends.
Ephesians 3:
21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
It will end when he returns. And it's common sense that if Jesus is with the saints when they reign, that He will be the boss.
 
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robycop3

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The following understood whereof Paul was speaking:

Martin Luther:

First Principles, pp. 196-197

For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny.

John Knox:

The History of the Reformation of Religion in Scotland, p.65

Yea, to speak it in plain words; lest that we submit ourselves to Satan, thinking that we submit ourselves to Jesus Christ, for, as for your Roman kirk, as it is now corrupted, and the authority thereof, whereon stands the hope of your victory, I no more doubt but that it is the synagogue of Satan, and the head thereof, called the pope, to be that man of sin, of whom the apostle speaks.

John Calvin:

Commentary on 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4:

Paul, however, does not speak of one individual, but of a kingdom, that was to be taken possession of by Satan, that he might set up a seat of abomination in the midst of God’s temple — which we see accomplished in Popery.

Scripture declares that God is the alone Lawgiver (James 4:12) who is able to save and to destroy; the alone King, whose office it is to govern souls by his word. It represents him as the author of all sacred rites; (644) it teaches that righteousness and salvation are to be sought from Christ alone; and it assigns, at the same time, the manner and means. There is not one of these things that the Pope does not affirm to be under his authority. He boasts that it is his to bind consciences with such laws as seem good to him, and subject them to everlasting punishment. As to sacraments, he either institutes new ones, according to his own inclination, (645) or he corrupts and deforms those which had been instituted by Christ — nay, sets them aside altogether, that he may substitute in their place the sacrileges (646) which he has invented. He contrives means of attaining salvation that are altogether at variance with the doctrine of the Gospel; and, in fine, he does not hesitate to change the whole of religion at his own pleasure. What is it, I pray you, for one to lift up himself above everything that is reckoned God, if the Pope does not do so? When he thus robs God of his honor, he leaves him nothing remaining but an empty title of Deity, (647) while he transfers to himself the whole of his power. And this is what Paul adds shortly afterwards, that the son of perdition would shew himself as God.

The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647):

There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition that exalteth himself in the church against Christ and all that is called God.

The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689):

"The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ."

King James:

From the dedication letter for the 1611 King James Bible:

(3) Then not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state, wherein the famous Predecessor of Your Highness did leave it: nay, to go forward with the confidence and resolution of a Man in maintaining the truth of Christ, and propagating it far and near, is that which hath so bound and firmly knit the hearts of all Your Majesty’s loyal and religious people unto You, that Your very name is precious among them: their eye doth behold You with comfort, and they bless You in their hearts, as that sanctified Person who, under God, is the immediate Author of their true happiness. And this their contentment doth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe, that the zeal of Your Majesty toward the house of God doth not slack or go backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting itself abroad in the farthest parts of Christendom, by writing in defence of the Truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that man of sin, as will not be healed,) and every day at home, by religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the Word preached, by cherishing the Teachers thereof, by caring for the Church, as a most tender and loving nursing Father.

Matthew Henry:

Commentary on 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4:

He is called the man of sin, to denote his egregious wickedness; not only is he addicted to, and practises, wickedness himself, but he also promotes, countenances, and commands sin and wickedness in others; and he is the son of perdition, because he himself is devoted to certain destruction, and is the instrument of destroying many others both in soul and body. These names may properly be applied, for these reasons, to the papal state; and thereto agree also,2. The characters here given, v. 4. (1.) That he opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or is worshipped; and thus have the bishops of Rome not only opposed God’s authority, and that of the civil magistrates, who are called gods, but have exalted themselves above God and earthly governors, in demanding greater regard to their commands than to the commands of God or the magistrate. (2.) As God, he sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
They were simply wrong. There have been many popes. No Scripture says "MEN of sin", THOSE Wickeds", etc. In 2 Thess.2:4, Paul wrote "HE", not "they". And not one pope had a miracle=working false prophet as his sidekick, nor was cast alive into hell.
 
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robycop3

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ToD when the Antichrist enters the coming temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.

AoD when the statue image is made of him and placed in the temple courtyard where everyone can see it. The temple courtyard is basically the temple mount platform as it is today.
The whole event will be the AOD, including when the FP supernaturally (thru Satan's power) makes the statue speak.
 
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Douggg

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The whole event will be the AOD, including when the FP supernaturally (thru Satan's power) makes the statue speak.
A transgression is an act. An abomination "setup" in Daniel 12:11 is a thing.

Two separate, but closely connected events.

The transgession of desolation is prophesied in Daniel 8:11-13.

The abomination "setup" is in Daniel 12:11-12. It was pre-figured as to what it will be - i.e. a statue image - when Antiochus had a statue of Zeus setup in the temple - Daniel 11:31 - called the abomination that makes desolate.

_________________________________________________________

The reason it is important
to keep those two desolation's the ToD and the AoD (preventing praise and worship of the One True God in the temple) distinct is because they are slightly separated in time. By maybe a month or more. The exact spacing cannot be determined ahead of time.

In that space, war will break out, when previously there had been peace the world thinking it was living in the beginning years of the messianic age. War represented by the rider on the red horse in Revelation 6. Following the rider on the white horse, the false perceived messiah, the Antichrist.

The Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation, not only revealing himself to be the man of sin, but also showing that he is not the messiah the Jews will have thought at that time in the beginning of the 7 years. It ends his time as the Antichrist, King of Israel, coming in his own name.

With war breaking out, strangers (to him) apparently assassinate the revealed man of sin. Indicated in Ezekiel 28:1-10.

Finding his soul in hell, Isaiah 14:15-20, for a short time, before God in disdain for the person does not let his soul remain in hell, nor let him have the honor of being buried in an ornate tomb, and returns his soul back to his lifeless body.

Bringing the person back to life will be the strong delusion that God sends to them who believed his claim of having achieved God-hood.

Once back to life, as the beast (no longer the Antichrist), it will not be him who has the statue image made by the people of the world, but the false prophet initiates the making of the statue image. Which later, as a Satanic backed lying miracle, the statue image comes to life and speaks.

So, the abomination of desolation is not one whole inclusive event, but a separate event from the transgression of desolation. They are connected, but are two separate events.

If you continue to refer to the Antichrist's going in to the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood - as the abomination of desolation, it is just going to perpetuate the error that has been ground into peoples minds by decades of popular bible prophecy teachers.

Make the distinction. Transgression of desolation - the Antichrist's act.

The abomination of desolation - the statue image of him after he has become the beast.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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It will end when he returns. And it's common sense that if Jesus is with the saints when they reign, that He will be the boss.
You're still contradicting the verses I gave you. Is Christ not with you now? Remember what Paul said: first comes the natural and then the spiritual. First comes the natural kingdom of Israel and then the spiritual kingdom of Israel. First comes the natural temple and then the spiritual temple. First comes the natural body then comes the spiritual body. How would a physical Christ indwell all believers? He had to leave in order to send another comforter who could indwell them.
 
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parousia70

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Your meanderings do not confirm that the Revelation is about the repercussions for violations done under the Old Covenant.
  1. Revelation 22:12
    Jesus Testifies to the Churches
    “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
Then it should be quite easy for you to Show us the scripture that Teaches that those under the New covenant are Judged according to their WORK.
 
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robycop3

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A transgression is an act. An abomination "setup" in Daniel 12:11 is a thing.

Two separate, but closely connected events.

The transgession of desolation is prophesied in Daniel 8:11-13.

The abomination "setup" is in Daniel 12:11-12. It was pre-figured as to what it will be - i.e. a statue image - when Antiochus had a statue of Zeus setup in the temple - Daniel 11:31 - called the abomination that makes desolate.

_________________________________________________________

The reason it is important
to keep those two desolation's the ToD and the AoD (preventing praise and worship of the One True God in the temple) distinct is because they are slightly separated in time. By maybe a month or more. The exact spacing cannot be determined ahead of time.

In that space, war will break out, when previously there had been peace the world thinking it was living in the beginning years of the messianic age. War represented by the rider on the red horse in Revelation 6. Following the rider on the white horse, the false perceived messiah, the Antichrist.

The Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation, not only revealing himself to be the man of sin, but also showing that he is not the messiah the Jews will have thought at that time in the beginning of the 7 years. It ends his time as the Antichrist, King of Israel, coming in his own name.

With war breaking out, strangers (to him) apparently assassinate the revealed man of sin. Indicated in Ezekiel 28:1-10.

Finding his soul in hell, Isaiah 14:15-20, for a short time, before God in disdain for the person does not let his soul remain in hell, nor let him have the honor of being buried in an ornate tomb, and returns his soul back to his lifeless body.

Bringing the person back to life will be the strong delusion that God sends to them who believed his claim of having achieved God-hood.

Once back to life, as the beast (no longer the Antichrist), it will not be him who has the statue image made by the people of the world, but the false prophet initiates the making of the statue image. Which later, as a Satanic backed lying miracle, the statue image comes to life and speaks.

So, the abomination of desolation is not one whole inclusive event, but a separate event from the transgression of desolation. They are connected, but are two separate events.

If you continue to refer to the Antichrist's going in to the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood - as the abomination of desolation, it is just going to perpetuate the error that has been ground into peoples minds by decades of popular bible prophecy teachers.

Make the distinction. Transgression of desolation - the Antichrist's act.

The abomination of desolation - the statue image of him after he has become the beast.
I believe they'll all be part of the same event. The antichrist will call a great news conference to cover them, & he will make a great show of it. And when the cheers die down, the FP will announce the instituting of the mark of the beast. Don't know what he will call it, but it'll be compusory & universal.
 
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jgr

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They were simply wrong. There have been many popes. No Scripture says "MEN of sin", THOSE Wickeds", etc. In 2 Thess.2:4, Paul wrote "HE", not "they". And not one pope had a miracle=working false prophet as his sidekick, nor was cast alive into hell.

Thanks for the guffaw.

There's no hubris like dispensational hubris.

There's no ignorance of history like dispensational ignorance of history.

Entirely unsurprising, as none other than dispensational godfather John Nelson Darby himself declared:
"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

There's only one. Do you know who he is?

God raised up the Reformers to wage spiritual battle with what had become an apostasized papacy, and to release its shackles of spiritual darkness, bondage, and oppression.

Recognition and proclamation of the apostasized papacy as the dominant man of sin and antichrist of the era was integral and indispensable to the Reformation message.

Despite enormous cost in lives and suffering, by God's grace and mercy the Reformation succeeded.

Explain how God was "simply wrong".
 
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robycop3

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You're still contradicting the verses I gave you. Is Christ not with you now? Remember what Paul said: first comes the natural and then the spiritual. First comes the natural kingdom of Israel and then the spiritual kingdom of Israel. First comes the natural temple and then the spiritual temple. First comes the natural body then comes the spiritual body. How would a physical Christ indwell all believers? He had to leave in order to send another comforter who could indwell them.
Are you forgetting that Jesus left physically & visibly, that the angels present at His ascent said He will return IN LIKE MANNER, and that Jesus Himself said He will return IN GREAT POWER & GLORY, adding in Rev. 1:7 that every eye will see Him, even the eyes of those who pierced Him?

Yes, Jesus is SPIRITUALLY with me, & is Spiritually present wherever/whenever 2 or more are gathered in His name. I believe that includes electronically, so, we'd all better watch what we post on Christian sites.
 
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Timtofly

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Read it again:
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.


The Letting out of the Vinyard to other Husbandmen happens VIA the Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard to Destroy them Miserably, NOT Before.

The text couldn't be more clear:

"WHEN the Lord of the Vineyard comes, what will he do?"

SG says, No that's incorrect, He does these things BEFORE He comes to destroy them, not When He comes.

When faced with these two polar opposite teachings, that of random internet guy Sovereigngrace, and that of Jesus Christ, My money is on Jesus being correct and SG being in error.
God did come at the Cross and do just that. Why do people look at humans to do God's work, when God did come and did His own work? The ripping of the veil in the Temple did just that.


It does not matter if humans used the Temple for years to come. God already fulfilled His part on the Cross.
 
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