In its simplest definition faith is believing , with confidence, some thing or some one. Here is what faith attests to regarding the bible.If men are born in sin, and if faith is the product of the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit, then the Old Testament saints must assuredly have supernaturally been birthed of the Spirit. Faith is the spiritual fruit of the renewing work of the Spirit of God within a human. Of course, the old covenant saints looked forward “by faith” to their promised coming Messiah who would redeem His people (Hebrews 11:13). But it seems evident that the Spirit performs the same transformative function in Old Testament times as He does in the New Testament economy.
That post ignored what Jesus stated in Matthew 10:5-8 and Matthew 15:24, who the audience, the gospel of the kingdom was meant for
If they repented and believed the gospel of the kingdom, they were saved.
In its simplest definition faith is believing , with confidence, some thing or some one. Here is what faith attests to regarding the bible.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
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Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to believers in Him -Jesus - to be a Comforter regarding what we believe; strengthening us in our faith, to reveal all truth testifying of Jesus.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
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No-one before Jesus's death and resurrection was saved, although many were righteous and had great faith.
Salvation involves removal of all sin in a person's life - as though those sins never happened. Not only forgiven, but the slate wiped clean.
Faith is substance, the essential nature of believing. In and of itself though, faith cannot save anyone. It is only faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection, as God's Way for forgiveness and removal of sin, that a person can
be saved.
No-one in old testament times were "saved", even though they were righteous men before God, and had strong faith in believing God, and that someday God would redeem them. No one is saved, no matter how strong their faith, apart from specifically believing in Jesus and Him as God's Way of salvation.
The old testament saints were preached to by Jesus when his body was in the grave, and He went into the place where they were and preached gospel, and it was then that they became saved, when Jesus came back to life - setting the captives to their situation free.
In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, why was Abraham and Lazarus in paradise, but not heaven?
Because at the time of the story, they were in the place of the righteous dead, but they were not yet saved, and thus were not in heaven.
Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Then why did Jesus have to die for propitiation of sin?Not so! Salvation is what results from the supernatural change that happens within the penitent sinner through the gracious work of the Spirit of God which enables him to exercise saving faith.
Then why did Jesus have to die for propitiation of sin?
1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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You quoted many passage containing the word salvation in the old testament. I am not saying that they did not believe that God would be their salvation. But none of them knew God's Way of salvation, because it was kept secret from understanding until after the death and resurrection of Jesus.
They could believe that God would provide salvation, but the were not able to believe God's Way which they could be saved. Because it was keep a secret until after Jesus's death and resurrection.I do not agree. They experienced salvation when they exercised faith in God and His impending sacrifice for sin. The reality is: the Old Testament saints looked forward to the cross, we look back. They knew “by faith” that God had a final perfect sacrifice for sin. It was like a post-dated check. They were regenerated on the grounds of the certainty of the impending redemptive work of Messiah.
They could believe that God would provide salvation, but the were not able to believe God's Way which they could be saved. Because it was keep a secret until after Jesus's death and resurrection.
There is a big difference in believing that God would provide salvation, than God's Way which they could be saved. Otherwise, it negates the need for Jesus to die for the sins of the mankind, and overcome death by His resurrection.
No-one can be saved apart from believing upon the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection on the third day. There was no other way to be saved prior, and no other way to be saved after. It is only by Gods specific Way of Salvation.
Essentially, what you claiming is that there was a different way of salvation in the old testament, apart from Salvation in Jesus, by His death and resurrection. That is not what was being taught in Hebrews.
They could believe that God would provide salvation, but the were not able to believe God's Way which they could be saved. Because it was keep a secret until after Jesus's death and resurrection.
There is a big difference in believing that God would provide salvation, than God's Way which they could be saved. Otherwise, it negates the need for Jesus to die for the sins of the mankind, and overcome death by His resurrection.
No-one can be saved apart from believing upon the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection on the third day. There was no other way to be saved prior, and no other way to be saved after. It is only by Gods specific Way of Salvation.
Essentially, what you claiming is that there was a different way of salvation in the old testament, apart from Salvation in Jesus, by His death and resurrection. That is not what was being taught in Hebrews.
They could believe that God would provide salvation, but the were not able to believe God's Way which they could be saved. Because it was keep a secret until after Jesus's death and resurrection.
There is a big difference in believing that God would provide salvation, than God's Way which they could be saved. Otherwise, it negates the need for Jesus to die for the sins of the mankind, and overcome death by His resurrection.
No-one can be saved apart from believing upon the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection on the third day. There was no other way to be saved prior, and no other way to be saved after. It is only by Gods specific Way of Salvation.
Essentially, what you claiming is that there was a different way of salvation in the old testament, apart from Salvation in Jesus, by His death and resurrection. That is not what was being taught in Hebrews.
The Old Testament prophets predicted the manner of Messiah’s ministry and the focus of His earthly mission. They foretold the time that He would come. They described His assignment and detailed His accomplishments. They depicted a suffering servant coming to redeem Israel from their sin. They portrayed the resistance He would experience. They forecast His rejection and the cross.
Jesus famously rebuked the two downcast disciples on the road to Emmaus on resurrection day, stating: “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?” (Luke 24:25-26). After this, he began to open their eyes to the meaning of the sacred pages. Luke 24:25 records: “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”
Jesus began at the beginning with Moses in the Pentateuch and followed right through to the prophets showing these disciples the things pertaining to Himself, His sufferings and His glory. He revealed the Gospel message in the Old Testament pages. Jesus was not just referring to the Old Testament pages. We often see the descriptive coupling of Moses and the prophets as an alternative description of, and distinction between, the written Word and the spoken Word. That is likely why Moses and Elijah joined Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration. They represented both groups and together they pointed to our Redeemer.
Our Savior continues in Luke 24:44-45: “These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.” His intent was to confirm that He completed every demand that was made of Him from the ancient inspired pages. His life was the perfect realization of predicted Old Testament prophecy.
Paul explained to the Jews that he said “none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles” (Acts 26:22-23).
The OT saints knew of the great truth of Christ's life, death, and resurrection. It may have been a mystery to them, it may have been veiled, but it was revealed to them through Moses and the prophets. They were not ignorant.
Revelation 13:8 tells us that Christ was “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” He was predestined to come into this world as a substitutionary sacrifice, without which no man could be saved. 1 Peter 1:19 confirms that Christ was “a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” There was a predetermined blueprint that Christ had to fulfil – He did perfectly.
Calvary was an important part of God's Sovereign plan for fallen-man. Our salvation was secured in eternity because God lives and works in eternity. It was experientially realized in time, because man is born and lives in time. Christ performed the Father's will for our lives - by dying for us. The Holy Spirit applied the Father's will to our lives – by convicting us and regenerating us.
Dispensationalists argue that it is all about the bloodline, and they are right, however, they focus in on the wrong bloodline. They choose the natural bloodline of Abraham instead of the ongoing blood atonement system God has provided as a means of redemption for the penitent sinners. The blood covenant provides a spiritual covering for all those who have entered into a personal experiential covenant relationship with God. This whole arrangement began in the Garden, continued through their righteous son Abel, and continues still today through the cross-work.
Amen brother.
It's a pleasure and inspiration to behold your Scriptural Steamroller in operation.
The OT saints lived their lives, then died and now remain in their graves. Proved by Acts of the Apostles 13:36, where David 'sleeps'.Were OT saints saved from the ultimate punishment for sin, i.e. hell?
If Abraham had salvation in Jesus, His death and resurrection three days later for propitiation of sin - then why did Abraham sacrifice a ram instead of Issac?I do not agree. They experienced salvation when they exercised faith in God and His impending sacrifice for sin
No, it is you saying that them in the old testament had salvation, not me. I have been saying them in the old testament had hope of salvation.You are guilty of what you are accusing me of. It is you that is arguing that "there was a different way of salvation in the old testament, apart from Salvation in Jesus, by His death and resurrection. That is not what was being taught in Hebrews."
Yes, I hear that. But it is inconsistent with your position that them in the old testament already had salvation.I believe and consistently teach that there is only one Gospel, one Savior, one salvation, and one people of God.
Those verses in Luke are after Jesus's resurrection.Jesus famously rebuked the two downcast disciples on the road to Emmaus on resurrection day, stating: “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?” (Luke 24:25-26). After this, he began to open their eyes to the meaning of the sacred pages. Luke 24:25 records: “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”
If Abraham had salvation in Jesus, His death and resurrection three days later for propitiation of sin - then why did Abraham sacrifice a ram instead of Issac?
Is there any verse in the old testament that God would sacrifice His Own Son for propitiation for the sins of mankind?
Also, why did them you say had salvation, without Jesus having died for their sins and rose again from the grave overcoming death - do animal sacrifices? Even so, in the temple?
If Abraham had salvation in Jesus, His death and resurrection three days later for propitiation of sin - then why did Abraham sacrifice a ram instead of Issac?
Is there any verse in the old testament that God would sacrifice His Own Son for propitiation for the sins of mankind?
Also, why did them you say had salvation, without Jesus having died for their sins and rose again from the grave overcoming death - do animal sacrifices? Even so, in the temple?
And don't you say that if another temple is built where sacrifices are done would be an affront to God? Because salvation is based on the shed blood of Jesus, and not animal sacrifices.
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Abraham and all in the old testament did not have salvation - they had hope for salvation, and they had faith in God which righteousness, not salvation, was credited to them.
The story of Lazarus and the rich man, Abraham and Lazarus were not in heaven, but paradise.
When Jesus brought back Lazarus from the dead, did Lazarus testify of what it was like in heaven?