Non-Vaccinated forbidden at his practice

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Once again it's about totalitarians demanding everyone else bend to their will. these experimental vaccines haven't yet proven over time to be safe. Vaccinated people shed as much, if not more of the Wuhan virus as the unvaccinated when infected. These are the same reactions, from the same type of people that you hear about concerning gun violence; Take the weapons from law abiding and this will reduce shootings by the criminals. absolute lunacy! Criminals don't care about your laws!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Not sure if that was a comedy act, but the concept of "treating others as you would like to be treated" becoming tyranny - Am I supposed to laugh now?

In the near future people may very well assert their right to bear arms and just randomly blow someone's head off - and say to detractors that it's tyranny to tell them what to do.
 
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Aussie Pete

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And it's not sensible for some to want to wait to see what the possible long term effects of a fast rolled out vaccine are for a virus that is 98/99 percent survivable?

Especially when this was stated this week?

"In a joint statement, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; Dr. Janet Woodcock, acting commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration; U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy and other public health officials said recent evidence showed that, as with other vaccines, protection granted by the available COVID-19 vaccines wanes over time...."

So it ceases to be about "everyone needs to get "vaccinated". You'll be signing up for boosters, etc And expect everyone else to do so as well. We are all different, have different make ups, different immune systems, conditions, ages, etc. That's why it should always be an individual decision. Especially when this vaccine is so relatively new, unlike the past ones that have years of study behind them.

And it's not sensible for the millions of people with natural immunity who still have antibodies to not take a shot that most likely will add little benefit and potentially do more harm?

People can trust all these back and forth studies but I still trust immunologist Hooman Noorchashm who stated natural immunity is still the gold standard and more likely robust than the vaccines and more likely to handle the variants as well. And going by the above statemnt from the CDC and FDA we see this is most likely true. Especially the more we learn about B and T cells. No one is suggesting that anyone go out and get Covid, but that these individuals (including myself) need to be included in the discussion.

Noorchashm is vaccinated so it's not about that for him. He is simply a patient advocate and says the vaccine should not be a "one for all" approach. Especially for younger people who are known to have more side effects from the vaccine. He says antibodies should be tested before decisions are made, etc. Sounds very sensible to me.
But it's clearly not about being sensible anymore. And it's clearly not about "herd immunity" anymore.
How many unnecessary deaths are acceptable to you? The disease spreads at an amazing speed. One undetected case can spread it all over a country in no time. Personally, I'd prefer to go back to normal life before everyone has had COVID and all who are going to die are gone. That's what natural immunity entails. I'm not prepared to catch the illness and give to a close friend who has underlying health issues.

I had my first jab today, after a lot of consideration both sides of the argument. I'm 70, in a high risk group. I did not feel the jab. My arm was warm around the jab site for about a minute. That was 7 hours ago and I still feel fine.
 
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Aussie Pete

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You know, I am kind of surprised that some of these Covid deaths aren't motivating people to get vaccinated. Saw a recent story where parents refused to get vaccinated, both dies, leaving their children orphaned.
All too common. Still, it's usually someone in less developed country, so who cares, right? I don't know how some people sleep at night.
 
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JulieB67

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So do you know someone, or know of someone with a robust immune system never wound up hospitalized with Covid-19 disease?

I'm stating that people that have recovered from Covid likely have more robust antibodies than someone who has been vaccinated. The CDC and FDA have already said the protection from the vaccine is starting to wane. Someone going to the hospital is just as rare from a Covid recoverer than someone vaccinated. For the most part, the symptoms would be less and in some cases, none.

How many unnecessary deaths are acceptable to you?
Unnecessary deaths are going to happen regardless of whether or not everyone is vaccinated. Covid will still spread. Unecessary deaths happen every day due to any number of things but it should not fall on someones shoulders if they are vaccinated or not. Especially when the long term effects are not known. That is someone making a personal decision in their own lives, that is their right. I'm thinking of my family as well. I'm thinking long term. I want to still be able to take care of my Mom who has had a stroke and my sister who has MS. Neither one is comfortable with the new shot and don't want me to take it as well because of possible long term effects. I have been been one of the 99 percent who have survived Covid. I'm also in a high risk group supposedly. Again, we are all different in different situations. Anyone can choose the vaccine if they want to. But again, as Dr Noorchashm said, it shouldn't be a "one for all" type situation.

And on the other side of the sprectrum, if a younger person who takes the vaccine while having natural immunity suffers a response or dies that is acceptable as well?

Also, let's just say if building natural immunity is valid, which it could be...we simply don't have time for that.
That's just the thing, many already have natural immunity and they are not testing or providing those numbers. If they did, you would see we are already at or close to herd immunity.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Many? Maybe, but not enough. There have been around 50,000 cases in Australia and nearly 1,000 deaths. The population is 25 million. Vaccination is the answer.
Research also indicates that vaccinating a recovered person will not harm them and just strengthens the immune system further.

All you need to do is look at India or Indonesia. Their vaccination programs are a disaster, the hospital systems are breaking down, there are not enough grave sites, morgues, coffins or burial workers to cope with the demand. That's how you achieve herd immunity the hard way.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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I'm stating that people that have recovered from Covid likely have more robust antibodies than someone who has been vaccinated. The CDC and FDA have already said the protection from the vaccine is starting to wane. Someone going to the hospital is just as rare from a Covid recoverer than someone vaccinated. For the most part, the symptoms would be less and in some cases, none.

Unnecessary deaths are going to happen regardless of whether or not everyone is vaccinated. Covid will still spread. Unecessary deaths happen every day due to any number of things but it should not fall on someones shoulders if they are vaccinated or not. Especially when the long term effects are not known. That is someone making a personal decision in their own lives, that is their right. I'm thinking of my family as well. I'm thinking long term. I want to still be able to take care of my Mom who has had a stroke and my sister who has MS. Neither one is comfortable with the new shot and don't want me to take it as well because of possible long term effects. I have been been one of the 99 percent who have survived Covid. I'm also in a high risk group supposedly. Again, we are all different in different situations. Anyone can choose the vaccine if they want to. But again, as Dr Noorchashm said, it shouldn't be a "one for all" type situation.

And on the other side of the sprectrum, if a younger person who takes the vaccine while having natural immunity suffers a response or dies that is acceptable as well?

That's just the thing, many already have natural immunity and they are not testing or providing those numbers. If they did, you would see we are already at or close to herd immunity.


Okay, if you're not vaccinating yourself, I would hope you at least wear a mask everywhere. At least compromise at that.
 
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jayem

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Do you mean murder their babies? Unfortunately, yes.

That’s debatable, but I don’t want to go off topic. My obvious point is that tyranny can be more than government mandating vaccination. It can also be government mandating what a pregnant woman can do with her uterus.
 
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Hammster

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Of course it is. But it would at least let the anti vaxxers experience the consequences of their attitude and leave the sensible people to get on with their lives. Surely that's democracy? Let people do whatever they please? I am being sarcastic. Maybe you did not notice.
That’s how tyranny becomes acceptable. As long as it doesn’t affect a large population, it’s fine.
 
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Hammster

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That’s debatable, but I don’t want to go off topic. My obvious point is that tyranny can be more than government mandating vaccination. It can also be government mandating what a pregnant woman can do with her uterus.
Yes, government has largely overstepped its authority. That’s why abortion is legal and not punishable by death. And time will tell what will happen when vaccines mandates kick in.
 
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JulieB67

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Research also indicates that vaccinating a recovered person will not harm them and just strengthens the immune system further.

Not according to his man who I trust when it comes to natural immunity. He said if someone still has antibodies, the shot could do more harm than good. Again, he has no agenda other than being a patient advocate and he himself is vaccinated. Again, that's a personal decision.

Hooman Noorchashm – Medium

Two of his most recent articles,

Indiscriminate COVID-19 Booster Shots Pose a Potential Risk of Harm To The Subset of Americans With…

"I have also argued that, at the very least, indiscriminate vaccination of the hundreds of millions of Americans who have acquired natural immunity to COVID-19 from a prior infection is an unnecessary or marginally beneficial public health practice, with only the potential for harm."

Another article where he's discussing the government not wanting people to to get their antibodies tested

FDA’s Advisory Discouraging Americans From Determining The Status Of Their Individual Immunity To…


"But on May 19, 2021 in a spectacular strategic blunder, the United States Food and Drug Administration blocked Americans from finding out the status of their antibody immunity to SARS-CoV-2. It’s worth knowing that antibody testing is the gold-standard for determination of immunity in standard medical practice."

But in the COVID-19 pandemic both reason and medical standards have been suspended, it appears. FDA has abandoned reason and CDC seems to act more on authoritarian ideology than sound medicine and established medical ethical precepts.

They don't want people to find out if they have antibody immunity. " This goes for people with natural immunity or vaccinated immunity.

That should make anyone and sit up and take notice. The government should want to know who has some kind of immunity against Covid but they don't care. It's not about that.

 
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ThisIsMe123

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Just saw this guy post this:

If you’re interested in hearing what a real D-bag with an MD sounds like,,,.tune in to
@Medscape
ladies and gentlemen!

[FONT=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]A doctor calling another doctor a D-bag? Really? I won't listen to anyone that berates others online. This dude is quite the troll.[/FONT]
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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So, I've done large write-ups on this before, but VAERS isn't a reliable source. It's 100% user-submitted, and the reports don't get reviewed. I could literally go to that website right now, write something wacky, and click submit, it'll get added to their aggregated data.
...

VAERS reports are time-consuming, and require a lot of information, thereby suppressing the number of doctors/people who will actually follow through. Perhaps you saw some hacker at work, posting nonsense in order to de-legitimize actual side effects and outcome. All serious side effects are indeed fact checked, and other health records requested. It was a passive system created merely to meet the bare minimum requirements of the National Childhood Act of 1986. Very few parents are reporting. Here is an article printed pre Covid-crazy: Safety monitoring in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

During 2011-2014, VAERS averaged around 30,000 U.S. reports annually, with 7% classified as serious. Healthcare professionals submitted 38% of reports, vaccine manufacturers 30% and patients and parents 14%. Reporter type and percent of serious reports vary across vaccines, age of vaccine recipient and how long the vaccine has been in use. During this same time period VAERS averaged around 6,000 foreign source reports annually. Vaccine manufacturers, which accounted for >99% of foreign source reporting, are required by law to submit foreign source adverse event reports that are both serious and unexpected [21], but not other types of foreign source reports. Given the vaccine manufacturer reporting requirements and the minimal amount of direct public reporting, it is not surprising that a relatively high percentage (48%) of foreign source reports are classified as serious.

"Reporting efficiency, which is the proportion of adverse events that actually get reported to VAERS, is unknown, but is believed to be higher for clinically serious conditions. In a 1995 study, reporting sensitivities ranged from 68% for vaccine-associated polio following oral poliovirus vaccine to <1% for rash following MMR vaccine [33]. Although underreporting is a limitation, VAERS is capable of detecting possible safety problems through disproportionality analyses and the other methods described above."
 
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rambot

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I just watched a video of this nurse in the hospital talk about the people in the hospital there with covid all had the vaccine.

So much of this lol talk goes out the window. Ignoring the fact you with the vaccine can get and pass to others covid from others with the vaccine. If your not watching listening to ANY news then this might be a shock to you. Yet I am guessing almost everyone here know this just.. oddly leaves it out.

I do also notice here those that post lol don't use the same language when talking about people crossing the border that will not get the vaccine and Washington is not will not demand they get it. Odd even the left media also do not do this. I thought we care about people getting the vaccine?

yeah.. there not stupid nor are they killing others. Those crossing the border with no masks young and old.. they are not being told they are killing our children.

Right in front of me from one of the most famous news "Covid vaccines still effective against Delta variant" seems not at the nurses hospital.
"I just watched a video".

I'm so sorry to be the first one to tell you this but a video on Facebook is not the best single source to base your opinion on. How did this information get verified?
 
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JulieB67

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Just saw this guy post this:

If you’re interested in hearing what a real D-bag with an MD sounds like,,,.tune in to
@Medscape
ladies and gentlemen!

[FONT=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]A doctor calling another doctor a D-bag? Really? I won't listen to anyone that berates others online. This dude is quite the troll.[/FONT]

Someone who spreads misinformation on purpose would be a D-bag imo. Dr Noorchashm is a patient advocate that is seeking for antibody tests to be done so one can see if they are immune or not. And that's not even rocket science. And I'm sure this was born out of fustration with the way he's been treated since this entire thing has started.

But me personally, I would still rather trust the guy with the degree in immunology rather than the Doc from WebMD

Especially seeing how JW has ties to the FDA, etc.

Prior to WebMD, Whyte served as the director of professional affairs and stakeholder engagement at the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. He would have an agenda in wanting to push the vaccine, even those with natural immunity.

DR Noorchashm is actually on your side with the vaccine but again doesn't see it as a "one for all" vaccine and he's right.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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Someone who spreads misinformation on purpose would be a D-bag imo. Dr Noorchashm is a patient advocate that is seeking for antibody tests to be done so one can see if they are immune or not. And that's not even rocket science. And I'm sure this was born out of fustration with the way he's been treated since this entire thing has started.

But me personally, I would still rather trust the guy with the degree in immunology rather than the Doc from WebMD

Especially seeing how JW has ties to the FDA, etc.

Prior to WebMD, Whyte served as the director of professional affairs and stakeholder engagement at the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. He would have an agenda in wanting to push the vaccine, even those with natural immunity.

There are many doctors in immunology and virology that work directly in the Covid units that know better otherwise. I'd question this guy's credentials.

Funny how you pick this one guy and take what he says as gospel against the rest of the entire medical profession. In fact, he's no longer a practicing doctor and shows up on Tucker Carlson. He has a lot of strikes against him.

But I'm sure if you search hard enough on Google, you'll find someone that will align with your confirmation bias.

He even he even falsely claimed that "Spoiled vaccines" are causing the outbreak, not the current variant.
 
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JulieB67

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Funny how you pick this one guy and take what he says as gospel, in fact, he's no longer a practicing doctor and shows up on Tucker Carlson. He has a lot of strikes against him.

What strikes does he have against him? Speaking common sense in a world full of chaos? I chose him when it comes to the discussion natural immunity vs vaccination because of he apparently has no hidden agendas. He's for the vaccine. But not for everyone. That's his point.

And he didn't come out of nowhere. He became a patient advocate after his wife died of a procedure that spread her cancer back in 2014.

As a Christian, too, it's not alway good to conform to the world majority, especially in this day and age. Especially not when medical common sense and total history gets shoved under the rug so everyone can tout this vaccine as something everyone should take.

ETA Dr Noorchashm also states that some that are fully vaccinated might not be fully immunized and they would need their antibodies tested as well.

He's all about immunity, natural or vaccinated but he said people need to have the tests done for antibodies and is upset at the government for not pushing this.
 
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