Micah ben Moresheth

[keras]

I contend that literally tens of thousands of futurists have tried and failed to predict That Day - and I contend that the Lord says That Day will be like a Thief in the Night - and that you have failed to realise everything that is tied up in the great, unpredictable, final Day of the Lord.

What I said was not a prediction, but asked what is most likely for the Lord to use on His Day of vengeance and wrath.

What I do realize, is that Day is not when Jesus Returns. The Prophesies make clear how different those days are:
The first to happen is His terrible Day of fiery wrath.
Next is the Return, in power and glory.
Then, 1000 years later; the Judgment of all mankind.

Disagreement with this sequence is disagreement with the Bible Prophets.

 

[eclipsenow]

that Day is not when Jesus Returns.

How do we the THIEF is when JESUS HIMSELF RETURNS?

These 3 sections are about the same thing.

What ingredients are in 2 Peter 3?
Thief, elements destroyed by fire, new heavens new earth, Day of the Lord


2 Peter 3:10-13
7. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.....
....But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

What ingredients are in 2 Thessalonians 1?
Jesus returns with blazing fire, angels, eternal judgment, saves his people. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

What ingredients are in Matthew 13? Jesus returns with angels to judge, righteous saved.

MATTHEW 13
The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

 

[Douggg]

Thief, elements destroyed by fire, new heavens new earth, Day of the Lord

So the Day of the Lord is eternal, right?

What the end times is concerned with is the beginning years of the Day of the Lord.

The beginning years of the Day of the Lord are addressed in 1Thessalonians5 and 2Thessalonians2.

What actually triggers the beginning years of the Day of the Lord is the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4, shattering the peace and safety of the false messianic age of him the thought to be messiah.

 

[keras]

These 3 sections are about the same thing.

I disagree;
2 Peter 3:7-12 is a sequence of 3 events; the Lord's Day of wrath, the glorious Return and after the Millennium; Eternity.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 is about the Day of fiery wrath. After it, the Lord will be revealed to His own faithful people. Revelation 14:1
At least 9 years later Jesus will Return.

Matthew 13:40-43 refers to the end of the 7000 year age, after the Millennium. Then the righteous will shine like the sun, in the Eternal Kingdom of God.

Is it possible for you to understand these things? Mark 8:21

So the Day of the Lord is eternal, right?

Wrong.
The Day of the Lord's fiery wrath is one literal day. Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:8, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 18:8

The Day of Jesus Return is one day.

The Day of Judgment, after the Millennium, is one day.

What actually triggers the beginning years of the Day of the Lord is the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4, shattering the peace and safety of the false messianic age of him the thought to be messiah.

What will trigger the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will be an attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel by Iran. Jeremiah 49:35-37 states this very plainly. Also Psalms 83 describes it.

There will be no 'false Messiah', that idea is never prophesied.
The 'beast' who will arise to lead the world government, will demand worship of himself. Revelation 13:11-18

 

[Douggg]

What will trigger the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will be an attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel by Iran. Jeremiah 49:35-37 states this very plainly. Also Psalms 83 describes it.

You need to make a chart of end times events timeline. Because you make so many fragmented statements. Jeremiah 49:35-37 does not imply anything about a nuclear missile attempt on Israel by Iran. I don't know how you could even get that from the text.

What happened to Beulah? Attack on Israel or Beulah? That's why you need to put together a end times chart, based on the critical path method to Jesus's return. You have too much fragmentation.

Readers like me of your posts can't figure out how things fit together in your end times scenario. You need to present a chart.

 

[eclipsenow]

So the Day of the Lord is eternal, right?

What the end times is concerned with is the beginning years of the Day of the Lord.

The beginning years of the Day of the Lord are addressed in 1Thessalonians5 and 2Thessalonians2.

What actually triggers the beginning years of the Day of the Lord is the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4, shattering the peace and safety of the false messianic age of him the thought to be messiah.

From a friend with a Phd in this stuff:

John writes that “many antichrists have come”, reminding us that there has been great opposition to Christ ever since he was born (remember how Herod killed all the babies in Bethlehem trying to get to Jesus?). Throughout the whole Bible, we find characters who are ‘anti’ God’s plans—wicked men, foreign kings, false prophets and ‘the beast’ who features in Revelation 13. Even in Deuteronomy, there are warnings about the rise of prophets who lie and preach rebellion against the true God.
But is there going to be one mega-evil ruler who will deceive the world and lead millions astray and do things like brand ‘666’ on their foreheads?
Probably not. There are passages in the Bible which talk about a particular being who is Christ’s foe (e.g., “the man of lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians 2 or the dragon of Revelation 12-13 who is identified as the Devil). But this kind of symbolic language is used to describe an attitude or spirit of evil rather than a single evil person. The fact that some parts of Scripture bring ultimate evil to a head by using an individual character to identify it probably says more about how dramatic literature operates than it does about predicting history.
The worst thing about antichrists is that they have come from within the church! The apostle John wrote that they “went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”. This is what antichrists do. They get among believers and try to deceive them, persuading them to believe lies and getting people to follow them and their deceptions rather than Jesus and his truth. They teach that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 Jn 4:1-3); they say it doesn’t matter whether you sin or not (1 Jn 1:5-10); and they neglect their Christian brothers and sisters (1 Jn 4:19-21).

According to God’s word, the antichrist might have sat next to you in the church pew. This isn’t a scene from a horror movie; quite the opposite-it is an everyday event. In this final age before Jesus returns, plenty of opponents of Jesus will arise. And they may even be in church, trying to deceive us and lead us into error. But Christians can be confident and at peace, because there will be a day when all ‘antichristness’ will be done away with.

It’s a bit of a waste of time trying to work out whether the antichrist is Boris Yeltsin, the Dalai Lama, Bill Gates or the Pope. It’s just as likely to be your granny or your next door neighbour, if they are promoting lies about our Lord.

Just make sure it isn’t you …

See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. (1 John 2:24-25)
The devil you know

 

[eclipsenow]

I disagree;
2 Peter 3:7-12 is a sequence of 3 events; the Lord's Day of wrath, the glorious Return and after the Millennium; Eternity.

You would split up the one theme.
You WOULD force it to be about your own ideas.
You would blatantly ignore what this whole CHAPTER is about, and just stab it with holes from your own verses plucked out of context. You have no idea how to read in context.

Instead, the whole chapter is undeniably about the return of the Lord. The whole thing. It's about scoffers, it's about God's view of time (being able to see the whole thing while also being able to zoom right in on each moment like it was an eternity), and it's about the end when the Lord returns and this universe disappears before him as he brings in the NHNE. It's all the one thing - there's just no splitting it up. And I honestly don't care what you think. I KNOW what this chapter is about because it is quite clear in and of itself - I hardly need the commentaries to understand this one. It's not Revelation, it doesn't have that much symbolism (except a few references to fire and a thousand), it's not repeating in chiastic structure, it's just what it is. A chapter about that last day.

I think you're kidding yourself if you split this up - and being a bit dishonest with yourself about the quality of your reading of all those OT verses.

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

 

[keras]

You need to make a chart of end times events timeline. Because you make so many fragmented statements. Jeremiah 49:35-37 does not imply anything about a nuclear missile attempt on Israel by Iran. I don't know how you could even get that from the text.

It is your constant repetition of faulty charts that has made them valueless. People just scroll over them.
I have posted a Biblically correct end times sequence. You have seen it.
But the simple fact is you and most others just cannot understand it.
Because of being fixated on false ideas and things like having to fit in a 'rapture', somewhere- anywhere.

Jeremiah 40:35-38 ...I shall break the bow of Elam, [Iran] the chief weapon of their might....I shall vent My fierce anger on them...I shall destroy the King and his officers there. [The Ayatollah and the mullahs]

What is the 'chief weapon of their might'? Nuke missiles.

Psalms 7:12-16 .....the enemy prepares his deadly shafts....arrows tipped with fire......they will violently fall upon their own heads.
Also Zechariah 5:1-11 is a prophecy about how the Lord will destroy them and their missiles.

 

[Douggg]

From a friend with a Phd in this stuff:

John writes that “many antichrists have come”, reminding us that there has been great opposition to Christ ever since he was born (remember how Herod killed all the babies in Bethlehem trying to get to Jesus?). Throughout the whole Bible, we find characters who are ‘anti’ God’s plans—wicked men, foreign kings, false prophets and ‘the beast’ who features in Revelation 13. Even in Deuteronomy, there are warnings about the rise of prophets who lie and preach rebellion against the true God.
But is there going to be one mega-evil ruler who will deceive the world and lead millions astray and do things like brand ‘666’ on their foreheads?
Probably not. There are passages in the Bible which talk about a particular being who is Christ’s foe (e.g., “the man of lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians 2 or the dragon of Revelation 12-13 who is identified as the Devil). But this kind of symbolic language is used to describe an attitude or spirit of evil rather than a single evil person. The fact that some parts of Scripture bring ultimate evil to a head by using an individual character to identify it probably says more about how dramatic literature operates than it does about predicting history.
The worst thing about antichrists is that they have come from within the church! The apostle John wrote that they “went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”. This is what antichrists do. They get among believers and try to deceive them, persuading them to believe lies and getting people to follow them and their deceptions rather than Jesus and his truth. They teach that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 Jn 4:1-3); they say it doesn’t matter whether you sin or not (1 Jn 1:5-10); and they neglect their Christian brothers and sisters (1 Jn 4:19-21).

According to God’s word, the antichrist might have sat next to you in the church pew. This isn’t a scene from a horror movie; quite the opposite-it is an everyday event. In this final age before Jesus returns, plenty of opponents of Jesus will arise. And they may even be in church, trying to deceive us and lead us into error. But Christians can be confident and at peace, because there will be a day when all ‘antichristness’ will be done away with.

It’s a bit of a waste of time trying to work out whether the antichrist is Boris Yeltsin, the Dalai Lama, Bill Gates or the Pope. It’s just as likely to be your granny or your next door neighbour, if they are promoting lies about our Lord.

Just make sure it isn’t you …

See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. (1 John 2:24-25)
The devil you know

Them who John called antichrists, John was likening them to what the coming Antichrist person will teach.

The ones John called antichrists were no longer members of the church, but had left. They weren't the coming Antichrist though.

The Antichrist person will be instead of and against Christ the King of Israel, i.e Jesus the rightful King of Israel who came in the name of the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

I have posted a Biblically correct end times sequence. You have seen it.

In lieu of chart,

I would like to see from you a progressive list of events in sequence leading up to Jesus's return.

For example, so you get the idea...


1. little horn person comes to power
2.
3.
4.



27.
28. Sign of the Son of Man in heaven
29. Armageddon
30. Jesus Return

On your list, every time a topic comes, an event, you could insert and update your list accordingly.

Go here.. and make your one post.

You sequential list - one post only

my post #2 is my one post for that thread (not including the opening guidelines of course in post #1).

Same request of @eclipsenow

 

[eclipsenow]

In lieu of chart,

I would like to see from you a progressive list of events in sequence leading up to Jesus's return.

For example, so you get the idea...


1. little horn person comes to power
2.
3.
4.



27.
28. Sign of the Son of Man in heaven
29. Armageddon
30. Jesus Return

On your list, every time a topic comes, an event, you could insert and update your list accordingly.

Same request of @eclipsenow

Or - we could do what the bible says - and admit we don't know because Jesus said he would return like a Thief in the Night. That the AOD was actually the Romans, the fig tree the Romans ("These things" = temple destroyed in THAT generation), and that about THAT DAY we just cannot know.

 

[Douggg]

Or - we could do what the bible says - and admit we don't know because Jesus said he would return like a Thief in the Night. That the AOD was actually the Romans, the fig tree the Romans ("These things" = temple destroyed in THAT generation), and that about THAT DAY we just cannot know.

The list does not have to predict dates.

make a list of events you do know in sequence.

I am going to start a new thread, for everybody to participate in - one post only.

here's the link...
You sequential list - one post only

my post #2 is my one post for that thread (not including the opening guidelines of course in post #1).

 

[eclipsenow]

The list does not have to predict dates.
make a list of events you do know in sequence.
I am going to start a new thread, for everybody to participate in - one post only.
here's the link...
You sequential list - one post only
my post #2 is my one post for that thread (not including the opening guidelines of course in post #1).

A list of things that are meant to happen before the Lord returns is kind of a giveaway.
None of them have ever panned out.
There have been tens of thousands of predictions.
The CME before the 2026 AOD won't happen.
Doesn't this appalling track record of failure bring into question your whole futurist reading?

 

[Douggg]

A list of things that are meant to happen before the Lord returns is kind of a giveaway.
None of them have ever panned out.
There have been tens of thousands of predictions.
The CME before the 2026 AOD won't happen.
Doesn't this appalling track record of failure bring into question your whole futurist reading?

No, to answer your question.

What I looking for from you and everyone else in this forum is the sequence of end times events, of you yourself believe them to be.

Do you believe there are events still ahead?

Do you believe in a new heaven and new earth and new Jerusalem? If so, that would be one item on your one post in that thread. It may be all there is in your list. Until you decide to update (edit) your one post.

my guess is that you believe in eternity. I just added eternity to my one post list.

 

[DavidPT]

The list does not have to predict dates.

make a list of events you do know in sequence.

I am going to start a new thread, for everybody to participate in - one post only.

here's the link...
You sequential list - one post only

my post #2 is my one post for that thread (not including the opening guidelines of course in post #1).

What I would be most interested in seeing in that thread, not so much Premils POVs, but Amils POVs instead, since most of them, except for full Preterist Amils I guess, tend to think Jesus could return at any time, which includes this very day, except none of them are Pretribbers. They obviously must think all prophecies have been fulfilled if Jesus could return even today. What then would their timeline of events look like if Jesus can return even this very day? When Pretribbers believe something like that, they are not suggesting all prophecies have been fulfilled. Amils are obviously suggesting that, though.

 

[Douggg]

What I would be most interested in seeing in that thread, not so much Premils POVs, but Amils POVs instead, since most of them, except for full Preterist Amils I guess, tend to think Jesus could return at any time, which includes this very day, except none of them are Pretribbers. They obviously must think all prophecies have been fulfilled if Jesus could return even today. What then would their timeline of events look like if Jesus can return even this very day? When Pretribbers believe something like that, they are not suggesting all prophecies have been fulfilled. Amils are obviously suggesting that, though.

I would be interested as well. What I don't want to happen in that thread is more than one post per person.

It is just intended to be a database, and since not everyone can make charts.

Which can be referenced, when we are discussing in all the threads here; that's when we can do the commenting and criticizing on their sequence if we disagree.

I am sure that everyone here believes in eternity. So everyone here could have their one post in that thread. They may have only one item. And update it (edit it) as they see appropriate.

I have already edited my one post four or five times, adding items.

 

[keras]

Or - we could do what the bible says - and admit we don't know because Jesus said he would return like a Thief in the Night. That the AOD was actually the Romans, the fig tree the Romans ("These things" = temple destroyed in THAT generation), and that about THAT DAY we just cannot know.

This comment by itself is a contradiction of what God tells us.
Amos 3:7 Indeed the Lord does nothing without revealing His plans to His servants, the prophets.

There have been tens of thousands of predictions.

All made by people who couldn't know what God has planned for our future. Because they lived too soon; Daniel 12:4 & 9
Also made by those who God, in His infinite wisdom, has made incapable of understanding the Prophesies. Isaiah 29:0-12, Matthew 11:25-26

 

[Douggg]

.

What will trigger the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will be an attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel by Iran. Jeremiah 49:35-37 states this very plainly

I looked at your database list* - and I did not see Jeremiah 49:35-37 (which you interpret as an attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel by Iran). Would that not be significant enough to place on your list ?

*thanks for participating btw. Now I can go straight to the database for the sequence of events in your view. And not have to search for it among the numerous threads in this forum.

 

[eclipsenow]

Do you believe there are events still ahead?

No - just the final great Judgement Day / Day of the Lord / Coming of the Lord / that Day when everything happens. No warning, no antichrist, no one world government, nothing. And probably not in the middle of a pandemic, as most people will be saying "Peace peace" - even though there will be wars and rumours of wars around the edges.

Do you believe in a new heaven and new earth and new Jerusalem? If so, that would be one item on your one post in that thread. It may be all there is in your list. Until you decide to update (edit) your one post.

Yes - but that's not an 'End Times' event. That's THE ESCHATON - THE END.
There are no events, and no warnings.
Spend time evangelising unsaved family - as they could die suddenly - or the Lord could return as suddenly!

I just added eternity to my one post list.

It's not an 'End Times' table but THE end of time.

 

[Douggg]

No - just the final great Judgement Day / Day of the Lord / Coming of the Lord / that Day when everything happens

That is not an event?

What do you mean by "everything" ? What is the sequence of everything?

In the thread, Your sequential list - one post only - it is your eschatological sequence. It does not say your end times sequence.