The Harvest At The End Of The Age

[Timtofly]

I'm not adding any words at all. I'm simply looking up in a Greek lexicon what his words actually mean. You should do the same.

There is a Greek word for the Roman Empire?

 

[Timtofly]

How exactly did the entire "thousand years" already take place by 70 AD?

Really, I thought "1000" could mean anything, even 10 years?

 

[Freedm]

According to who? Show me where it teaches this in scripture.

Do you think scripture is a Greek lexicon? No, you have to look up the meanings of the original words, outside of scripture. I use biblehub.com.

You can start with this link and then click through the words pneuma and psuche.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Lexicon: Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (biblehub.com)

 

[Freedm]

We are to teach Josephus as equal to the Word of God?

Are we to ignore all other history books?

 

[Freedm]

There is a Greek word for the Roman Empire?

Oh my gosh. Yes. I posted this for you way back in post #56. Here it is again.

Here's the lexicon for Matthew 24:14: Matthew 24:14 Lexicon: "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. (biblehub.com)

And here's the reference for that specific word that Jesus used; oikoumene: Strong's Greek: 3625. οἰκουμένη (oikoumené) -- the inhabited earth (biblehub.com)

This is what I've been telling you all along, but you refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit with your preconceived beliefs.

 

[Freedm]

That is what scripture teaches. What is the problem with that? The day that Jesus died, He told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him that day in paradise and He also asked the Father to receive His spirit (Luke 23:43-46). Jesus's body was not resurrected until 3 days later, so He was clearly implying that His soul and spirit would live on in paradise (third heaven) even though He was physically/bodily dead.

If Jesus was still alive in spirit form preaching to the dead, as you claim, then that means he didn't really die. He just left his body. And if that's what you believe, that's a problem.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Matthew 13:24-40:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.


What is this harvest? Is this the revealing of the Sons of God?

Romans 8:19:
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Or is this the rapture? Or both? Or none of them?

Thoughts please Be kind as we discuss. Don't try to provoke arguments, but feel free to share your honest views.

When Jesus returns He returns to judge the living and the dead--this is the Day of Judgment which all must stand before Him and give account.

That Day of Judgment is the moment all creation longs for, it is the day when the dead are resurrected and God makes all things new. Judgment concludes this fallen age, and through Judgment God brings about the renewing of all things. The fire that consumes this present age, is the fire that purifies the world for the future eternal age--it is the fire of God's Judgment.

Fire works in two ways: It destroys and it purifies. When metal is taken into the flame, the impurities are burned away and all that remains is the pure, tempered metal. The fire of God's judgment is God's refining fire for the world; not to destroy the world, but to bring about for the world the renewal which was promised long ago. For the Day is coming when, as the Prophet Habakkuk said, the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord like the waters cover the seas (Habakkuk 2:14). Or as the Prophet Isaiah has said, God will bring about new heavens and new earth, even the lion shall eat straw like the ox in that Great Day (Isaiah 65:25).

That is why St. Paul says in Romans 8 that creation, presently, groans in the pains of childbirth. The sufferings of creation now are the birth pangs out of which the Age to Come and the restoration of all things (Acts of the Apostles 3:21). Christ being the first fruits of the resurrection is our promise that God will raise the dead, it is the sign of God's new creation breaking into the world even now--through Jesus Christ our Lord, and in our lives by God's grace. This is why St. Paul says in Romans 6 that we have been crucified and buried with Christ and have been raised with Christ.

What God shall bring about to all creation He has begun in the Lord, and by our union with the Lord we too are sharing, in anticipation, of that future world. This is what is meant by, "If anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, the old has passed away and see the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Christ is Himself the death of the old, and the birth of the new--by His death and resurrection. Which we are caught up in by the grace of God, and therefore co-workers with God in His work even here in the world. That is what it means to be the Church of Christian disciples; to preach the Good News of what God has done for the whole world. As we look forward to what is to come based on the promises of what God has already accomplished, in which we now live here in the present.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Timtofly]

Oh my gosh. Yes. I posted this for you way back in post #56. Here it is again.

Here's the lexicon for Matthew 24:14: Matthew 24:14 Lexicon: "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. (biblehub.com)

And here's the reference for that specific word that Jesus used; oikoumene: Strong's Greek: 3625. οἰκουμένη (oikoumené) -- the inhabited earth (biblehub.com)

This is what I've been telling you all along, but you refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit with your preconceived beliefs.

I told you that the earth was inhabited outside of the Roman Empire. You claimed that did not count. Only the Roman Empire did. Inhabited is not a synonym of Roman.


The gospel did go outside of the Roman Empire. Still does not prove an unrelated point. "Inhabited" is not Greek for "Roman".


"It was "originally used by the Greeks to denote the land inhabited by themselves, in contrast with barbarian countries; afterward, when the Greeks became subject to the Romans, 'the entire Roman world;' still later, for 'the whole inhabited world'"

I think the connotation was "like us". But what does it mean "still later"? Later than what year?

God is not limited by "people like us". You have not convinced me this word is supposed to mean any thing else, but the whole of mankind.

Strongs suggests that the word at first only meant the Greeks. Then it was expanded to the Roman Empire. You left out the small detail that later it meant all mankind. You are going to have to find out when the dates changed, if you want to prove your point, God actually limited Himself to a certain meaning at a certain point in time.

 

[Freedm]

I told you that the earth was inhabited outside of the Roman Empire. You claimed that did not count. Only the Roman Empire did. Inhabited is not a synonym of Roman.


The gospel did go outside of the Roman Empire. Still does not prove an unrelated point. "Inhabited" is not Greek for "Roman".


"It was "originally used by the Greeks to denote the land inhabited by themselves, in contrast with barbarian countries; afterward, when the Greeks became subject to the Romans, 'the entire Roman world;' still later, for 'the whole inhabited world'"

I think the connotation was "like us". But what does it mean "still later"? Later than what year?

God is not limited by "people like us". You have not convinced me this word is supposed to mean any thing else, but the whole of mankind.

Strongs suggests that the word at first only meant the Greeks. Then it was expanded to the Roman Empire. You left out the small detail that later it meant all mankind. You are going to have to find out when the dates changed, if you want to prove your point, God actually limited Himself to a certain meaning at a certain point in time.

Definition: the inhabited earth
Usage: (properly: the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation), the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world, for all outside it was regarded as of no account.

If you still think Jesus was talking about the entire world then you're literally ignoring facts in order to keep your beliefs intact.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Do you think scripture is a Greek lexicon? No, you have to look up the meanings of the original words, outside of scripture. I use biblehub.com.

When exactly did I indicate that I don't do that? I use blueletterbible.org.

You can start with this link and then click through the words pneuma and psuche.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Lexicon: Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (biblehub.com)

I am aware of the various definitions of those Greek words. And I don't see anything there to refute what I've been saying.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Really, I thought "1000" could mean anything, even 10 years?

It can because it's a figurative, undefined amount of time. I didn't say otherwise. I was asking him how the thousand years was completed by 70 AD. I'd like to know what evidence there is that Satan was loosed in 70 AD, for example. And then what about the fire coming down from heaven after the little season following the thousand years (Revelation 20:9)? I'd like to know how that could have already happened.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

If Jesus was still alive in spirit form preaching to the dead, as you claim, then that means he didn't really die.

What are you talking about? When did I say He was preaching to the dead?

He just left his body.

He told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise the day He died and He committed His spirit to the Father. So, that's pretty strong evidence that He left His body, but the rest of Him didn't die and went to paradise/third heaven. And then went to unite with His resurrected body 3 days later.

And if that's what you believe, that's a problem.

What is the problem? His earthly body died and He rose again bodily 3 days later. No problem. Your problem is your inability to differentiate between the body, soul and spirit.

 

[Timtofly]

Definition: the inhabited earth
Usage: (properly: the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation), the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world, for all outside it was regarded as of no account.

If you still think Jesus was talking about the entire world then you're literally ignoring facts in order to keep your beliefs intact.

So after the Roman Empire collapsed so did the world? The world is no longer inhabited? You are the one with the narrow restriction of what inhabited means. You did not give any dates. The post you quoted has the full definition. Not just the narrow definition of your choosing.