Young People Hate Baby Boomers

dzheremi

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Being so concerned about communism in this millennium (when there are five such states in the entire world: North Korea, China, Cuba, Laos, and Vietnam) is a bit like being similarly concerned about blimp crashes: sure, they do occasionally still happen, but they're not really like the Hindenburg anymore, as basically the entire world has moved on from blimp-based human transportation, and is much better for it.

It seems like when most boomers of a certain mindset hear trigger words that they don't like (they don't even have to be 'communism' or 'socialism' specifically; plenty of people are triggered by vague enough words coming from the other political side, like 'change'), they automatically have in mind the worst possible historical examples of the thing they don't like. It makes sense, in a way: a generation that spent a significant amount of its lifespan being taught that the Rooskies were going to bomb us at any minute (and for some, actually being alive when we came closer to that being a reality than ever before, during the Cuban Missle Crisis) isn't likely to want to roll out the red carpet for what they see as a manifestation of similar political ambitions among the youth. I've definitely had boomers who did not know me personally assume that, since I'm apparently too young to know these things (I just use the internet to get taken in by WND articles, after all...), I just need an education in how evil and scary the Russian menace truly was, which...sure, I guess...I mean, хотите как хотите, Товарищ. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I just wish these same people would understand that this entirely sensible reaction also works 'the other way around', if you will: why would a generation like the Millennial generation which in the USA largely graduated higher education (which boomers spent their children's entire educational life up until that point telling them they needed to get to be able to work at any place greater than McDonalds) directly into a supposedly historic recession, and then more recently suffered the same recessions that everyone else has felt with the arrival and continued reality of Covid (with the notable difference that unlike the not-retiring boomers, the millennial generation by and large didn't have stable jobs or housing to see them through it, because recall the above reality of their post-education economy) at all feel inclined to sit through even one more second of lectures from the generation that got into their first apartments right out of high school for the equivalent of $500 in places that now rent for 4 times that much (or more!) despite Americans' wages not having significantly improved since the late 1970s? Why should millennials feel any particular deference to the generation that famously burned their draft cards and hung out in Canada smoking pot or whatever while their less fortunate (read: poorer/less well-connected) classmates died for nothing in Vietnam, but then apparently felt nothing about lying their damn heads off once they got into positions of power about why we absolutely, positively needed to go to war with Iraq (again)? Why should the millennial generation ever listen to the boomers who decry us as the worst, laziest generation ever while their fellow boomers continue (or sometimes even ramp up) lifetime patterns of drug abuse, financial irresponsibility and philandering, and generally treating existence itself like it's a big game of Supermarket Sweep and they have to collect as much 'stuff' (consumer goods, property, spouses, etc.) as they can before they run out of time, and to heck with what sort of mess that leaves for everyone else?
 
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RDKirk

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Being so concerned about communism in this millennium (when there are five such states in the entire world: North Korea, China, Cuba, Laos, and Vietnam) is a bit like being similarly concerned about blimp crashes: sure, they do occasionally still happen, but they're not really like the Hindenburg anymore, as basically the entire world has moved on from blimp-based human transportation, and is much better for it.

It seems like when most boomers of a certain mindset hear trigger words that they don't like (they don't even have to be 'communism' or 'socialism' specifically; plenty of people are triggered by vague enough words coming from the other political side, like 'change'), they automatically have in mind the worst possible historical examples of the thing they don't like. It makes sense, in a way: a generation that spent a significant amount of its lifespan being taught that the Rooskies were going to bomb us at any minute (and for some, actually being alive when we came closer to that being a reality than ever before, during the Cuban Missle Crisis) isn't likely to want to roll out the red carpet for what they see as a manifestation of similar political ambitions among the youth. I've definitely had boomers who did not know me personally assume that, since I'm apparently too young to know these things (I just use the internet to get taken in by WND articles, after all...), I just need an education in how evil and scary the Russian menace truly was, which...sure, I guess...I mean, хотите как хотите, Товарищ. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We actually came close in 1963, 1973 (Arab-Israeli War) and 1983 (EXERCISE ABLE ARCHER 83). I was just a wee bairn still in Air Force intelligence school during the 73 Arab-Israeli War, so I wasn't fully aware of the significance of what was going on. But I distinctly recall my elders being visibly shaken. Ten years later, reading the Strategic Air Command historical narrative of the situation, I got shaken. At one point, the Israelis had westward momentum through the Sinai Penninsula. It looked like they were going to roll right into Egypt, take Alexandria, and topple the Egyptian government. The Soviets were moving across the Med to stop them, and the US fleet was moving east to intercept the Soviets. The President Nixon had cranked up the national DEFCON...which hadn't happened since 63.

Then again in 1983, I was working in the Strategic Air Combat Operations Staff in the Underground Command Post at SAC headquarters during EXERCISE ABLE ARCHER 83. That was an unprecedented nuclear war exercise in which for the first time we had all the services running a coordinated nuclear war exercise. SAC was revving our missiles and bombers, the Navy had its boomers in play, even the NATO was moving its nuclear forces. We even had the participation of the National Command Authority involved (the president...although I think it was actually the UN ambassador sitting in the president's role).

We had run the exercise right the "president" ordering the execution of the Major Attack Option. My participation of in the exercise ended thirty minutes after that because we anticipated the Soviets had 25-30 warheads targeted for the spot I sat. So thirty minutes after we "executed" the MAO, I went to my regular desk (which was in the first floor of the basement of the LeMay Building) to catch up on the message traffic and then go home and go to bed.

I got a telephone call: Report back down to the Underground immediately. I got back down there and was advised the Soviets had "reacted" to the exercise. Oh, boy, had they. They were opening silos, flushing their boomers out of base, and sending their mobile missiles into the forests. They had never seen such an immense American/NATO nuclear exercise before, and to launch a real war at the end of an "exercise" was right out of their own playbook. They knew they had to get their own forces launched before ours disappeared into their hiding places.

Although we knew the diplomats were hard at work trying to talk the Soviets away from the ledge, in SAC Headquarters we had to proceed under the assumption that talks would fail. We were preparing for nuclear war as furiously as we could. Everything that had been an exercise the week before suddenly turned real. I did not leave the building for the next four days. Everyone was in stark terror. When I briefed the generals each morning, their faces were gray as concrete. I prayed constantly, "Jesus, please stop us!"

You can read a lot about EXERCISE ABLE ARCHER 83 in Wikipedia, and there are a couple of YouTube videos on it. But those accounts don't really convey how scary it was to be part of it. President Reagan said later that was the day he realized the Soviets actually considered him and America the "bad guy" who would shoot first.

I just wish these same people would understand that this entirely sensible reaction also works 'the other way around', if you will: why would a generation like the Millennial generation which in the USA largely graduated higher education (which boomers spent their children's entire educational life up until that point telling them they needed to get to be able to work at any place greater than McDonalds) directly into a supposedly historic recession, and then more recently suffered the same recessions that everyone else has felt with the arrival and continued reality of Covid (with the notable difference that unlike the not-retiring boomers, the millennial generation by and large didn't have stable jobs or housing to see them through it, because recall the above reality of their post-education economy) at all feel inclined to sit through even one more second of lectures from the generation that got into their first apartments right out of high school for the equivalent of $500 in places that now rent for 4 times that much (or more!) despite Americans' wages not having significantly improved since the late 1970s? Why should millennials feel any particular deference to the generation that famously burned their draft cards and hung out in Canada smoking pot or whatever while their less fortunate (read: poorer/less well-connected) classmates died for nothing in Vietnam, but then apparently felt nothing about lying their damn heads off once they got into positions of power about why we absolutely, positively needed to go to war with Iraq (again)? Why should the millennial generation ever listen to the boomers who decry us as the worst, laziest generation ever while their fellow boomers continue (or sometimes even ramp up) lifetime patterns of drug abuse, financial irresponsibility and philandering, and generally treating existence itself like it's a big game of Supermarket Sweep and they have to collect as much 'stuff' (consumer goods, property, spouses, etc.) as they can before they run out of time, and to heck with what sort of mess that leaves for everyone else?

I would not say that Millennials win the prize for the unluckiest generation in modern times because life for the War Generation still sucked a bit more. But without a doubt, the American Boomer Generation was the most fortunate generation in all of human history.
 
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iarwain

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It seems like when most boomers of a certain mindset hear trigger words that they don't like (they don't even have to be 'communism' or 'socialism' specifically; plenty of people are triggered by vague enough words coming from the other political side, like 'change'), they automatically have in mind the worst possible historical examples of the thing they don't like.
What are these good historical examples of Communism?
 
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dzheremi

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What are these good historical examples of Communism?

Of communism I don't know any (though friends of mine in Bulgaria have said that things were better before, I think that's more about nostalgia for their youth than anything else), but socialist policies led to a reduction in poverty in Bolivia under former president Evo Morales (nationalizing the country's foreign-controlled electrical grid was also arguably a good move), and it could be argued that socialism-inspired or aligned social programs have helped combat drug use and HIV infection in Portugal to pretty good effect.

My point was not to stump for socialism or communism anyway, but to say that treating everything associated with 'socialism' as though it is to be equated to the purges of Stalin or the excesses of Enver Hoxha seems foolish and set up to perpetuate what are by now largely unfounded fears. We've had self-described socialists in various offices around the country for over a century now, from the election of Emil Seidel as mayor of Milwaukee in 1910 to of course people like Bernie Sanders in our own time. This has not in fact led to the destruction of America, or the introduction of Soviet-style labor camps, or whatever the heck is supposed to scare us about having 'socialism' in the USA.
 
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iarwain

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We've had self-described socialists in various offices around the country for over a century now, from the election of Emil Seidel as mayor of Milwaukee in 1910 to of course people like Bernie Sanders in our own time. This has not in fact led to the destruction of America, or the introduction of Soviet-style labor camps, or whatever the heck is supposed to scare us about having 'socialism' in the USA.
Give it time :)
Anyway, about socialism. I don't know if there are any pure socialistic or pure capitalistic countries anywhere, most economies have a mix of the two. Pure, unregulated capitalism has its problems, I can't refute that. Monopolies, for example.

That said, I doubt you would be too surprised if I said that people like Sanders and AOC are a little too far left of the line for my taste.
 
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Sparagmos

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Okay, you asked for it.


The way people vote absolutely baffles me, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. One major reason for rising college costs however, is government interference. Similar to rising health costs.


I think one thing that is driving up the cost of living is what is considered basic necessities these days. When I was a kid, our family had one car, no air conditioning, a black and white TV, and a party line phone (when we finally got one). Now of course everybody in the family needs a phone with wifi, computer with internet, everybody in the family needs a car, a TV, new clothes, etc.

I'm not one to think that minimum wage laws would help, because they would just drive up prices even more. Business owners are just going to pass the extra cost onto consumers, and we'll have more inflation. So your $15 an hour or whatever it isn't going to do you any good because it won't buy as much. And inflation hurts everybody.


I'm not one to criticize kids moving back home. Many cultures have multiple generations living together in the same house, I don't see anything wrong with that. The culture needs to go back to valuing traditional families if we are to survive.


If you are trying to tell me that voting for Leftists is the answer to the problems in this country, I could not disagree more vehemently. I've seen a lot of videos where they talk to college students these days, and it seems like most of the kids that age seem to want to live in a Communist country, or are right on the verge of it. This apparently is what they are learning.

Yet there are people here who came from Cuba who see the leftist indoctrination going on, and they are emphatic that this is wrong, and they do not want to see their new country go the way Cuba did. But they see what's happening. Socialism is not what made the US the unique and successful country it is/was, but it keeps drifting further and further left, and if it continues, it will become more and more of a dump. Mark my words.
Thanks for your thoughtful responses!

Can you see why millenials might be upset that such existential issues (being deep in college debt, not able to afford housing, having to work so much there is no time left for leisure, etc) aren’t being addressed with specific policy proposals from boomers? You didn’t have any answers to what should be done on a national level. This is, to them, a crisis and boomers don’t even think it’s serious enough to propose concrete changes, but also won’t let the younger generations chart their own course and make their own legislative mistakes.
 
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iarwain

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This is, to them, a crisis and boomers don’t even think it’s serious enough to propose concrete changes, but also won’t let the younger generations chart their own course and make their own legislative mistakes.
I wouldn't say Boomers don't think it's serious, but the solutions are complicated, as are the causes. I'm sure younger generations are having a hard time, but the response is still the same - to educate yourself (not necessarily talking about college here), to be smart and creative, and to work hard for what you want. Anything less is just laying down and dying.

As for legislation, your time will come. It's not realistic to expect the older generation to bail out and let the young people run everything (until the time comes), especially when they don't agree with their answers.
 
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Paidiske

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I wouldn't say Boomers don't think it's serious, but the solutions are complicated, as are the causes. I'm sure younger generations are having a hard time, but the response is still the same - to educate yourself (not necessarily talking about college here), to be smart and creative, and to work hard for what you want. Anything less is just laying down and dying.

As for legislation, your time will come. It's not realistic to expect the older generation to bail out and let the young people run everything (until the time comes), especially when they don't agree with their answers.

I think - and without wanting to pick on you personally - this perhaps illustrates part of the problem.

There certainly could be policy and legislative changes which would attempt to address the issues raised; and it seems incredibly harsh, instead of looking at those, to just shrug and tell people who are already struggling to basically just work harder in a system that's stacked against them.

As for legislation and participation in the structures of power, the oldest millennials are forty now. Some of them are highly educated, highly qualified, incredibly capable people with a track record of success; how long are they supposed to wait for others to get out of the way? Are the older folk going to hold on to power until their very last breath, rather than sharing and mentoring and fostering the skills of those coming up behind them?

(I know, in my own context, the frustration some younger colleagues have shared with me, when observing efforts by some of our more mature colleagues to abolish a mandatory retirement age. And they are frustrated, not because they begrudge our colleagues working until they're older, but because they know that that's going to prolong the period of time that opportunities are denied to a younger generation).
 
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bèlla

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there are parts of the country where cost of living & housing/rent is less expensive

And wages move along those lines. It differs for every industry but the gaps can be huge. In some instances its better to remain in an expensive area while you're building your career. When you're more established you can move elsewhere. It depends on the job.

i.e. a sibling of mine works in a lower paying job but she has an apt that is 600 something/month

You couldn't get that here. And if you did it would be in a bad neighborhood.

if people can't afford where they live, good choice is move to a lower cost of living state OR to an area in their state with more affordable housing

The economy differs in every state. MA is doing well. They didn't experience the bust the way other places did. Many are being priced out. They're getting pushed further and further into the suburbs. It's a hot job market with top tier candidates. That's driving prices up.

~bella
 
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Sparagmos

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I wouldn't say Boomers don't think it's serious, but the solutions are complicated, as are the causes.
Again, they aren’t proposing any fixes to the system. A solution being complicated isn’t an excuse when the problem is existential.

I'm sure younger generations are having a hard time, but the response is still the same - to educate yourself (not necessarily talking about college here), to be smart and creative, and to work hard for what you want.
. Millenials are already educated, they are in their 30’s. They already are putting in more hours than boomers did at work, for less money. It sounds like you’re saying "suck it up."

As for legislation, your time will come. It's not realistic to expect the older generation to bail out and let the young people run everything (until the time comes), especially when they don't agree with their answers.
. I’m not a millennial, I’m almost 50. Again, you’re not providing solutions or even acknowledging the issues being raised. I’m not asking boomers to bow out, I’m asking what their proposed solutions are besides "work hard," which is an incredibly insulting thing to say to someone who is working measurably harder than they did, for even less money.
 
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Sparagmos

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there are parts of the country where cost of living & housing/rent is less expensive

i.e. a sibling of mine works in a lower paying job but she has an apt that is 600 something/month

if people can't afford where they live, good choice is move to a lower cost of living state OR to an area in their state with more affordable housing

in our neighborhood, there are 6 singles (that I know of) in homes so housing in our area is affordable even for singles
Where would they get the money to move? Poor people don’t have those kinds of resources. The places with cheaper housing have lower wages and, often, higher rates of poverty. And all so that Jeff Bezos can go to space?
 
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Paidiske

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Let's be real here for a minute. There's a very great deal that could be done:

- to improve people's access to tertiary education (whether at university, through vocational training or apprenticeship).
- to improve employment/working conditions, especially for those dealing with precarious or insecure work.
- to improve housing availability/affordability.
- to improve the availability and affordability of medical care, including things like obstetrics and perinatal care. (Someone on this site once told me having a baby cost thousands of dollars in America. Compared to countries where it is free!).
- to improve the quality, range, flexibility and affordability of childcare.

Make any real progress even on any one of those things, and you'll see a significant benefit to our younger adults.

It's not impossible. It's not intractable. It just takes willingness and creativity.
 
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iarwain

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Millenials are already educated, they are in their 30’s. They already are putting in more hours than boomers did at work, for less money. It sounds like you’re saying "suck it up."
What's the alternative? We had our hard times too. I worked full time both while going to high school and while going to college. Did Millennials work harder than that? I'm not trying to be insensitive to the unique challenges facing people today, the US manufacturing base probably isn't coming back. But every generation thinks no one has gone through what they have (and that's not only with the economy). I felt the same way when I was younger.
 
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Sparagmos

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What's the alternative?

I think that @Paidiske laid it out really well in post #75. We just need to do what most other developed countries are doing. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. I’d add making it easier for workers to join unions, as that was another factor that boomers benefitted from that we have lost.

We had our hard times too. I worked full time both while going to high school and while going to college. Did Millennials work harder than that? I'm not trying to be insensitive to the unique challenges facing people today, the US manufacturing base probably isn't coming back. But every generation thinks no one has gone through what they have (and that's not only with the economy). I felt the same way when I was younger.

I don’t know if you’re listening to me…. Millenials are working more hours NOW, as it takes two incomes to support a family. Millenials on average are working twice as much or more, when you factor in that both parents have to work and so many work two jobs or lots of OT. I just don’t understand why these massive changes wouldn’t seem like a problem to you. Why should working class people be expected to sacrifice just so that the uber wealthy can make more? There has been a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the 1%, at no benefit to society.
 
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Paidiske

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If we're going to talk anecdata, I had a really good illustration of some of the problems recently. I was talking to a young guy in need of emergency relief (food given out by the church). This young guy was an apprentice mechanic. In talking with him about his situation, he was paying - for one room in a shared house - four times what I was paying for a room in a similar shared house about twenty years ago (when I was a student and working).

Now I can guarantee you that apprentice wages haven't quadrupled in that twenty years, so it's no surprise that by the time he'd paid his rent, he was struggling to eat. And this isn't someone who's doing nothing, or being irresponsible, or with a drug habit, or what-have-you; it's a young bloke working hard to get a qualification which will enable him to earn a living.

Nobody should be relying long-term on church food parcels just to be able to eat. We can and should do better than this.
 
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Nobody should be relying long-term on church food parcels just to be able to eat. We can and should do better than this.

I don't know if other school districts are doing this but ours have been giving free breakfast & lunch to ALL students ....

this whole past year & even this summer

even for online students, we just went once/ wk to pick up 5 days of food
fresh fruits & veggies included!
 
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