Confusion about what Jesus Said

[Veteran1990]

I just did. That is part of the core message of Christianity. Don't try to read into it something that isn't there. Read 1 John 4. verse 19 summarizes what I just said, "We love Him because He first loved us."

Uhmm, no you didn't. When someone asks for Clarification its usually because what is explained was not understood by the person you were responding to. I don't know what it means to give your heart to a Spirit. That Conceptually doesn't make sense to me. If you meant, you are to Love Him, in The Context of Loving a person, with all of your heart, it is negated by The Fact The Bible Says the heart is wicked and deceitful.so who initiates the change. Does hearing The Truth have that much of an effect. I'm assuming based on your generalization everyone hear is going to Heacen bexause all they have to do is to Love God to obey his commandments.

That is Conceptually averting my question. The Bible, and Jesus Said you must obey my commandment's. The Context doesn't seem to apply when Jesus said IF, Holy Spirit.

The commandment's were Emphasized before in what Jesus said. However there is some credence to what you are saying, However the If You Love Me, does insinuate your actions must prove it. That's why I said EXPLAIN

 

[Veteran1990]

It is all about one's motive.
Do you keep Jesus's commands because you love him!
Or
Do you keep the ten commandments because you are trying to earn your salvation?

Which is it for you?

I have found both tiring because it is impossible and the aggravation from trying to keep the commandments bexause you Love some is frustrating when your a sinner.

 

[Veteran1990]

It is all about one's motive.
Do you keep Jesus's commands because you love him!
Or
Do you keep the ten commandments because you are trying to earn your salvation?

Which is it for you?

I feel the issue is more complex than that. If it were as easy as Loving someone you never knew, then, it seems to be conceptually impossible. You can't love someone you don't get to know. And even if you read about someone, it is not the same as knowing someone. There are Terms used in Christianity that are so Conceptually confounding that its possibly the reason this makes no sense.

 

[topher694]

Uhmm, no you didn't. When someone asks for Clarification its usually because what is explained was not understood by the person you were responding to. I don't know what it means to give your heart to a Spirit. That Conceptually doesn't make sense to me. If you meant, you are to Love Him, in The Context of Loving a person, with all of your heart, it is negated by The Fact The Bible Says the heart is wicked and deceitful.so who initiates the change. Does hearing The Truth have that much of an effect. I'm assuming based on your generalization everyone hear is going to Heacen bexause all they have to do is to Love God to obey his commandments.

That is Conceptually averting my question. The Bible, and Jesus Said you must obey my commandment's. The Context doesn't seem to apply when Jesus said IF, Holy Spirit.

The commandment's were Emphasized before in what Jesus said. However there is some credence to what you are saying, However the If You Love Me, does insinuate your actions must prove it. That's why I said EXPLAIN

As I said you are reading too much into this. Yes, the Bible says the heart of man is wicked. It also says when we make Jesus the Lord of our life He remakes our inner man and old things pass away and all things become new, including our heart. We don't make Jesus the Lord of our life out of obligation, or fear, or on a whim, but in an act of total surrender and as expression of love and appreciation for Him as our Lord and creator. A love that only grows as we continue to learn the depth of what He did for us.

The Bible says we then become temples of God and the Spirit of God dwells within us. It also says that that Spirit within us writes His law on our heart (our new heart). We still have the free will to submit to that (renewing our mind to it), but when we do we begin to be changed... on the inside (our soul)... because that is where the heart is. When our soul is transformed eventually our outward behaviors will begin to change (Rom 12:1-2)... and since it is God doing the changing, do you think those outward behaviors will line up with His commandments or not?

 

[TzephanYahu]

Hi @Veteran1990

Good question in the OP and I can see in your posts that you are thoughtful and awakened to Elohim's Word. It just seems like you are caught up in a few things, but the fact you are confronting these things and asking with passion is very reassuring.

Yes, we are indeed to keep the 10 commandments. All 10. Not just 9 by excluding the Sabbath. Yes, if we love the Father and the Son we would do this.

The Messiah will send the Spirit to us to help us keep His commandments IF we have the heart to do so. However, if one's heart is limited in saying "we don't need the Law we are under grace", then that person shouldn't expect any help at all but ought to prepare their case for when they meet with Him.

The Law is not burdensome as some make out. See David's words in Psalm 19:7-14. And again, He will help us walk in His Torah - IF we take the first few steps down the road first, willingly, obediently and in love and thanksgiving.

Please keep seeking and asking. That's how you'll find the truth and peace.

May Yahweh continue to bless you with wisdom.
Peace.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

1. you are over thinking this.
2. if you think you cant have a relationship with Jesus simply because you cant see Him, then you dont believe in Him. we walk by faith, not sight.

 

[Veteran1990]

As I said you are reading too much into this. Yes, the Bible says the heart of man is wicked. It also says when we make Jesus the Lord of our life He remakes our inner man and old things pass away and all things become new, including our heart. We don't make Jesus the Lord of our life out of obligation, or fear, or on a whim, but in an act of total surrender and as expression of love and appreciation for Him as our Lord and creator. A love that only grows as we continue to learn the depth of what He did for us.

The Bible says we then become temples of God and the Spirit of God dwells within us. It also says that that Spirit within us writes His law on our heart (our new heart). We still have the free will to submit to that (renewing our mind to it), but when we do we begin to be changed... on the inside (our soul)... because that is where the heart is. When our soul is transformed eventually our outward behaviors will begin to change (Rom 12:1-2)... and since it is God doing the changing, do you think those outward behaviors will line up with His commandments or not?

What you said sounds a little like spiritualism.
Nevertheless, this is part of my anger with Christian terms. What do you mean total surrender? surrender is when someone gives up to someone. How is that associated with Love?

 

[timothyu]

The blind have taught the blind well to carry on a tradition of a movement that wished to set up it's own kingdoms in earth and rule over mankind. The Gospel of the Kingdom would have exposed them for what they were/are so another gospel was chosen which allowed them to have it both ways and this is the one their rule book insists we follow to this day.

 

[topher694]

What you said sounds a little like spiritualism.
Nevertheless, this is part of my anger with Christian terms. What do you mean total surrender? surrender is when someone gives up to someone. How is that associated with Love?

What I said was a summary of a whole lot of scriptures, if you want to dismiss that as "spiritualism" then I don't understand why you are here asking questions about basic Christianity concepts.

Surrender has more meanings than the "battlefield" type of definition, and I'm pretty sure you know that. Surrender here means putting your trust in Jesus and what the Word says about Him (that He died for your sins and rose on the third day, ect...). Trust in Jesus means trusting His ways and plans are better than your ways and plans. Or in other words surrendering your will for your life to His will for your life. It's not a "try it on for size" type of decision, it is commitment to Him.

 

[Tolworth John]

I feel the issue is more complex than that. If it were as easy as Loving someone you never knew, then, it seems to be conceptually impossible. You can't love someone you don't get to know. And even if you read about someone, it is not the same as knowing someone. There are Terms used in Christianity that are so Conceptually confounding that its possibly the reason this makes no sense.

People love pop stars, film stars even politicians who they do not know, some even love those they know through mail or the internet.

So it is possible to love someone you know little about or have never physical met.

Yes we are told to obey out of love, yet we are sinners because of our inability to obey the command to obey.
Jesus knows this.

We all have to learn the humility involved in having to constantly come back to Jesus to confess that we know we have failed again.

 

[timothyu]

We all have to learn the humility involved in having to constantly come back to Jesus to confess that we know we have failed again.

Yes, in other words accept that we are useless when it comes to knowing and doing what is best because self interest too often plays a part. We need to repent of it thus changing our thinking and turning over the decision making to the will of God, for soon He will return to rule this world and those unwilling to give up control will suddenly find themselves cancelled from the new culture

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Someone who knows Jesus must explain this to me, you are way too impatient

i think you need to go back to basics concerning salvation. John is a great place to start. Then, after you are saved, 1st john is a great place to learn how to test yourself.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Loving the Lord is not necessary for salvation. Jesus never said that you need to love him in order to go to heaven.

Here's what Jesus actually said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." - Jesus, John 6:47

So if you simply believe in Jesus (you trust him) you have everlasting life regardless of how much you love him or how much you keep his commandments.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

[QUOTE="BibleBeliever1611, post: 76090783,

So if you simply believe in Jesus (you trust him) you have everlasting life regardless of how much you love him or how much you keep his commandments.[/QUOTE]

that is dangerous thinking. You cant just keep on sinning and expect to actually be saved. Your idea of believe is different than what James said believe is. You must produce good fruit, not to get saved, but to prove that you have been regenerated. No regenerate heart = no salvation.

 

[EmethAlethia]

I have always been confused about The Doctrine of Salvation based on what Jesus said. My logical mind can not comprehend it.

Jesus effectively said that if you Love Him you shall obey his commandments, Yet, His commandments are the ten commandments.
.

This presumes that there are no other commands in the bible. It also presumes that nothing changed when Jesus was ministering on this earth and that the disciples who wrote the rest of the N.T. had no authority at all, and their material is worthless.

Jesus is the "Word of God" in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. There are many other places where the two are synonymous. I am the way, the truth and the life... Father sanctify them with Thy truth, Thy word is truth, The word of God is active and powerful and sharper than a two-edged sword ... who can hide us from the Great High Priest with whom we have to do ...

Some things, like circumcision, the sacrificial system, the Tithe which was for the support of the temple ... have been completed or fulfilled, or are no longer in force per Jesus Himself in many cases.

Understand that before the desire to seek to figure out and obey Him comes the understanding of the depths of what you have been forgiven for and the price He paid for you. He who is forgiven much loves much. If you love Me you will keep My commandments.

The O.T. law was given as a tutor to lead us to Christ. Those under the Law are under a curse that is lifted in Christ. Is the Law Holy, Righteous, Good, Pure? Of course, but it causes death for which Jesus is the cure. Like Paul said, wretched man that I am, who can save me from this body of death ... It is also our desire to figure out and do as He commands that proves He is our Lord, and that we have the Holy Spirit in the first place.

 

[timothyu]

It is also our desire to figure out and do as He commands that proves He is our Lord, and that we have the Holy Spirit in the first place.

Or simply put, put the will of our Father ahead of our own thus loving all as self.

 

[topher694]

Loving the Lord is not necessary for salvation. Jesus never said that you need to love him in order to go to heaven.

Here's what Jesus actually said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." - Jesus, John 6:47

So if you simply believe in Jesus (you trust him) you have everlasting life regardless of how much you love him or how much you keep his commandments.

No, but it is a fruit that can/should grow from salvation that then empowers us to keep the commandments.

 

[Veteran1990]

What I said was a summary of a whole lot of scriptures, if you want to dismiss that as "spiritualism" then I don't understand why you are here asking questions about basic Christianity concepts.

Surrender has more meanings than the "battlefield" type of definition, and I'm pretty sure you know that. Surrender here means putting your trust in Jesus and what the Word says about Him (that He died for your sins and rose on the third day, ect...). Trust in Jesus means trusting His ways and plans are better than your ways and plans. Or in other words surrendering your will for your life to His will for your life. It's not a "try it on for size" type of decision, it is commitment to Him.

First of all it says nowhere in Scripture that God enters the soul, therefore you must have an alternative source, imagination, interpretation or otherwise by which you are suggesting your interpretation. This is why I said it sounds like spiritualism. It has no place in a discussion about Scripture.

 

[Veteran1990]

This presumes that there are no other commands in the bible. It also presumes that nothing changed when Jesus was ministering on this earth and that the disciples who wrote the rest of the N.T. had no authority at all, and their material is worthless.

Jesus is the "Word of God" in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. There are many other places where the two are synonymous. I am the way, the truth and the life... Father sanctify them with Thy truth, Thy word is truth, The word of God is active and powerful and sharper than a two-edged sword ... who can hide us from the Great High Priest with whom we have to do ...

Some things, like circumcision, the sacrificial system, the Tithe which was for the support of the temple ... have been completed or fulfilled, or are no longer in force per Jesus Himself in many cases.

Understand that before the desire to seek to figure out and obey Him comes the understanding of the depths of what you have been forgiven for and the price He paid for you. He who is forgiven much loves much. If you love Me you will keep My commandments.

The O.T. law was given as a tutor to lead us to Christ. Those under the Law are under a curse that is lifted in Christ. Is the Law Holy, Righteous, Good, Pure? Of course, but it causes death for which Jesus is the cure. Like Paul said, wretched man that I am, who can save me from this body of death ... It is also our desire to figure out and do as He commands that proves He is our Lord, and that we have the Holy Spirit in the first place.

It does not presume anything, based on the concept of the old and new testament, the entire basis for entrance into Heaven is receiving The Holy Spirit. Therefore, all commands are evaluated to be obeying Jesus as a basis for Entrance into Heaven. What reason did you state this?

 

[topher694]

First of all it says nowhere in Scripture that God enters the soul, therefore you must have an alternative source, imagination, interpretation or otherwise by which you are suggesting your interpretation. This is why I said it sounds like spiritualism. It has no place in a discussion about Scripture.

Again, you don't seem to take the time to read carefully and even try to understand. I said the Bible itself says we become temples of God and the Holy Spirit is living within us, which is directly stated several places in scripture. Additionally scripture says that God writes his commandments on our hearts and minds. Our hearts and minds - again according to scripture - are part of our soul.

2 Cor 5:17
1 Cor 3:16
1 Cor 6:19-20
1 Peter 2:4-5
Jer 31:33/Hebrews 8:10/Hebrews 10:16
Psalm 40:8

That is not my interpretation... that is clear, consistent scripture from multiples sources (the above are only a few) and centuries of understanding beyond me to back it up.