JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[Bob S]

According to the scriptures in the new covenant, Gods' ISRAEL are no longer those in the flesh but all those who are now born of the Spirit through faith in Gods' Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 2:28-29. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27 and we are all now one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-15; Galatians 3:28. Therefore all the Word of God is for all those who now believe and follow Gods' Word. (need more scripture?). According to the scriptures Bob, sin still is the transgression of the law *1 John 3:4 because it is only through the law that we have the knowledge of what sin is according to Paul in Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7. That is why Paul says that the law is holy, just and good in Romans 7:12 and why James says if we knowingly break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. Of course God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is if we willfully break it once God gives us the knowledge of what is Word says (James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 5:29). According to John those who practice sin which is defined as breaking anyone of Gods laws - 1 John 3:4) and those who do not practice sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.

Something to pray about.

Apparently, you didn't understand a word I wrote. You just keep coming back with all your canned, out of context, rhetoric. All I can do is pray and feel sorry for you.

Paraphrasing what I wrote is this: My parents had a law that I was not allowed to climb the cherry tree. Now Johnny, who lived next door, didn't have this command by his parents. He was allowed to climb the tree any time he pleased. For me it was a sin, but for Johnny it was perfectly his choosing to climb or not.

God gave Israel the laws of the Sinai covenant. For them it was sin to break any one of them. God didn't give me all those laws, so am I sinning when I don't observe laws given exclusively to Israel? Was Johnny somehow sinning even though he was not under the law?

 

[HARK!]

God gave Israel the laws of the Sinai covenant. For them it was sin to break any one of them. God didn't give me all those laws, so am I sinning when I don't observe laws given exclusively to Israel?

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Ro 2:11
For there is not partiality with God,

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

You see, without the Torah we perish.

 

[Bob S]

Did Johnny sin?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Book of Hebrews was written be a Hebrew, to Hebrews. It was likely originally written in Hebrew according to Clement of Alexandria. The author didn't just pull the passage that was quoting out of this air. He pulled it from the TaNaK. It is to be understood by a Hebrew audience, through a Hebrew perspective, In fact, the TaNaK lays a foundation for the B'rit Chadasha. If one doesn't understand the TaNaK; how can one expect to understand the B'rit Chadasha?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You cited Hebrews 10:3 to support your bare assertion. That's not what Hebrews 10:3 says, nor does it support your bare assertion.
Exhibit A:

It is exactly what scripture says. Here is the part you left out....

It was already answered earlier as all sin which was already stated and why I added the context back in. Hebrews 10:1 says [1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The Greek used here in "year by year" ἐνιαυτός is a derivation: prolongation from a primary ἔνος (a year) meaning continually throughout the year. That is all sins throughout the year by year could not make the comers thereunto perfect. So we are talking about all sin that was brought into the earthly Sanctuary throughout the year

For example other translations of Hebrews 10:1 say it this way...

Young's Literal Translation
For the law having a shadow of the coming good things -- not the very image of the matters, every year, by the same sacrifices that they offer continually, is never able to make perfect those coming near,

American Standard Version
For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh.

New American Standard Bible
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect.

Berean Literal Bible
For the Law, having a shadow of the good things coming, not the form of the things themselves, never is able each year, with the same sacrifices which they offer continually, to perfect those drawing near.

All sin was to be brought into the Sanctuary every year by year which culminated in the cleansing of all sin from the Sanctuary on the great day of atonement once a year which leads us into Hebrews 10:3

.............

Now in Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. Reference to Leviticus 23:27-32 which is the great day of atonement (Yom Kippur) or the cleansing of the Sanctuary from all the sins of God's people collected throughout the year. So back to the original answer that was already provided = Yom Kippur is ATONEMENT FOR ALL SIN and the cleansing of the Sanctuary for all sin through out the year! In the new covenant Jesus death on the cross is God's sacrifice for all the sins of the whole World (John 1:29) once and for all *Hebrews 10:10. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins with His own blood so that we can have God's forgiveness.

..............

God's Word not mine dear friend. Now what is it that you do not believe here?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Again, See: Post# 2094

Misinformation, already addressed and shown through the scriptures to be not true (e.g. see post # 2075 linked; post # 2078 linked; post # 2080 linked; too many more posted)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your strawman argument doesn't answer my question.

And what strawman argument would that be?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH Of course, they did. . .they were under the Old Covenant.

What is a Jew in the new covenant?

Romans 2:28-29 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

God's Israel in the new covenant is no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who through faith are now born of the Spirit according to the promise *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29. If we are not true Jews born inwardly of the Spirit we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. We are all now one in Christ and gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. God's Israel are all those now who believe and follow Gods' Word according to the scriptures.

Hope this is helpful

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ According to the scriptures in the new covenant, Gods' ISRAEL are no longer those in the flesh but all those who are now born of the Spirit through faith in Gods' Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 2:28-29. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27 and we are all now one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-15; Galatians 3:28. Therefore all the Word of God is for all those who now believe and follow Gods' Word. (need more scripture?). According to the scriptures Bob, sin still is the transgression of the law *1 John 3:4 because it is only through the law that we have the knowledge of what sin is according to Paul in Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7. That is why Paul says that the law is holy, just and good in Romans 7:12 and why James says if we knowingly break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. Of course God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is if we willfully break it once God gives us the knowledge of what is Word says (James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 5:29). According to John those who practice sin which is defined as breaking anyone of Gods laws - 1 John 3:4) and those who do not practice sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.

Your response here...

Apparently, you didn't understand a word I wrote. You just keep coming back with all your canned, out of context, rhetoric. All I can do is pray and feel sorry for you. Paraphrasing what I wrote is this: My parents had a law that I was not allowed to climb the cherry tree. Now Johnny, who lived next door, didn't have this command by his parents. He was allowed to climb the tree any time he pleased. For me it was a sin, but for Johnny it was perfectly his choosing to climb or not. God gave Israel the laws of the Sinai covenant. For them it was sin to break any one of them. God didn't give me all those laws, so am I sinning when I don't observe laws given exclusively to Israel? Was Johnny somehow sinning even though he was not under the law?

Bob all I see here are your words here disagreeing with God's Word in the post you are quoting from which are not my words but God's Words. You disagree here with your words without showing why you disagree. So we may need to agree to disagree. There is no need to be upset when only scripture is posted and shared with you that may disagree with you. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'll take Yah's word over yours; but thanks for sharing. See: Post# 2094

Yet I have only posted God's Word but it seems you do not believe it. (e.g. see post # 2075 linked; post # 2078 linked; post # 2080 linked; too many more posted). So I guess we will agree to disagree here.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Paraphrasing what I wrote is this: My parents had a law that I was not allowed to climb the cherry tree. Now Johnny, who lived next door, didn't have this command by his parents. He was allowed to climb the tree any time he pleased. For me it was a sin, but for Johnny it was perfectly his choosing to climb or not.

God gave Israel the laws of the Sinai covenant. For them it was sin to break any one of them. God didn't give me all those laws, so am I sinning when I don't observe laws given exclusively to Israel? Was Johnny somehow sinning even though he was not under the law?

I know it is a waste of time, but you set up a false narrative...you and Johnny have the same Father, The Creator of all. Again, do you think God just made up the Torah at Sinai? Gentile nations were punished for sin. Adam was not a Jew and he sinned (sin is the transgression of the law). Neither was Abraham a Jew... Genesis 26:5

 

[HIM]

Apparently, you didn't understand a word I wrote. You just keep coming back with all your canned, out of context, rhetoric. All I can do is pray and feel sorry for you.

Paraphrasing what I wrote is this: My parents had a law that I was not allowed to climb the cherry tree. Now Johnny, who lived next door, didn't have this command by his parents. He was allowed to climb the tree any time he pleased. For me it was a sin, but for Johnny it was perfectly his choosing to climb or not.

God gave Israel the laws of the Sinai covenant. For them it was sin to break any one of them. God didn't give me all those laws, so am I sinning when I don't observe laws given exclusively to Israel? Was Johnny somehow sinning even though he was not under the law?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godliness; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godliness; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[Bob S]

I know it is a waste of time, but you set up a false narrative...you and Johnny have the same Father, The Creator of all. Again, do you think God just made up the Torah at Sinai? Gentile nations were punished for sin. Adam was not a Jew and he sinned (sin is the transgression of the law). Neither was Abraham a Jew... Genesis 26:5

Your false narrative is neither Adam of Abraham was under the laws of the Sinai covenant. Torah = the five books of Moses constituting the Pentateuch and the word was invented in 1547AD. To try to tell us Adam had the first five books of Scripture is a false narrative. Man is born with the sense of right and wrong. Morality laws are forever. Adam had the laws of morality and we have the same laws. When we treat our fellow man with the love Jesus asked us to do, we are keeping the laws of morality just as man has done or should have done since the beginning. All the extra laws of the Torah were excess baggage and taken away at Calvary.

It has been a waste of time trying to get some to realize the real truth of Jesus words in John 15. 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

The commands Jesus kept was Torah. The commands Jesus asked the disciples to keep were Jesus commands. They are the same commands Jesus disciples are to keep today.

 

[HARK!]

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Good point.

When Paul wrote this, it was the TaNaK, and maybe what is now considered apocrypha by some, that was considered to be scripture.

Paul taught almost exclusively from the TaNaK.

 

[HARK!]

It is exactly what scripture says. Here is the part you left out....

It was already answered earlier as all sin which was already stated and why I added the context back in. Hebrews 10:1 says [1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The Greek used here in "year by year" ἐνιαυτός is a derivation: prolongation from a primary ἔνος (a year) meaning continually throughout the year. That is all sins throughout the year by year could not make the comers thereunto perfect. So we are talking about all sin that was brought into the earthly Sanctuary throughout the year

Your derivation doesn't line up with all scripture.

Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

The Kohen Gadol was not delegated to making all types of sacrifices, therefore that responsibility would not have been transferred. YHWH covenant with the Levitical Priesthood is eternal; and they will be making sacrifices in the Kingdom to come.

Aside for that, the Apostles continued to contribute to YHWH's table, long after Yahshua had ascended.

 

[HARK!]

Misinformation, already addressed and shown through the scriptures to be not true (e.g. see post # 2075 linked; post # 2078 linked; post # 2080 linked; too many more posted)

Post# 2094 directly quotes your post, and makes a scripture reference.

I agree that it's misinformation; and the source of that misinformation is not the cited scripture.

 

[HARK!]

Yet I have only posted God's Word but it seems you do not believe it. (e.g. see post # 2075 linked; post # 2078 linked; post # 2080 linked; too many more posted). So I guess we will agree to disagree here.

Your additions to Yah's word, do not qualify as Yah's word.

Certainly we disagree on this point.

 

[HARK!]

Day of Atonement. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the World.

Sin taken away. Vessels made fit, purged. No more conscience of sins. Sanctified, vessels made fit to serve the living God once and for all. Perfected, were in the Holy Ghost witnessed, as was said before. For God has said He will put His Laws in our hearts and in our minds.

Therefore having boldness to enter into holiest of all. The way having been made through the veil that is to say His flesh. Have full assurance, with our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. Hold fast to this profession, provoke one another unto good works as we see the day approaching. For if we are sinning willfully after we received the knowledge of this truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin.

Lev 16:11 And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:


Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Weird... I almost missed this response, as I didn't get an alert that you quoted my post. That would have been a shame.

Clearly, in my mind, Yahshua was delegated the tasks of the Kohen Gadol; and as I was working my study, that was the context that I was looking for regarding his role, and what we can learn from what was commanded regarding YHWH's table.

However, Yahshua is our Pesach. The Pesach has a much different purpose than the Yom Kippurim.

If Israel had conformed to the covenant that they had entered; day to day sin sacrifices would not have been offered.

Israel would have honored their threshold covenant, as they accepted YHWH into their family.

Now it seems that the covenant is reversed. In other words, it is YHWH who is putting the blood on his threshold, and inviting us into his home, to be members of his family.

"I am the door."

You can review this portion of my study here:

YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

 

[Clare73]

What is a Jew in the new covenant? Romans 2:28-29 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

God's Israel in the new covenant is no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who through faith are now born of the Spirit according to the promise *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29. If we are not true Jews born inwardly of the Spirit we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. We are all now one in Christ and gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. God's Israel are all those now who believe and follow Gods' Word according to the scriptures.

"God's Israel" are all those now who believe in and trust on the person and atoning work (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and permanent right standing (position) with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty;" permanently removed from their sin ever being charged against them; rightesous; sanctified.

 

[Leaf473]

It's not just someone. It's someone who is in covenant in the nation of Israel.

What do you mean by "in covenant"?
Which covenant?

Great discussion, btw!