40 Questions

Ceallaigh

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So (truthfully wondering as to your response) ... why does Jesus imply otherwise, when He says that many walk the broad path which lead to destruction ... while few walk the path which leads to life ?

If I may interject, I don't think everything Jesus said along those lines was only about the afterlife. There's a lot of destruction people face here on earth. Lots of weeping and gnashing of teeth in the here and now. Lots of people give powerful testimonies of the hellish life they suffered before they came to know Jesus.
 
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Clare73

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So, God doesn't have to live by his own standard of righteousness?

Saint Steven said:
6. Does God ask us to forgive our enemies when He is ultimately not willing to do the same in the end?
God's own standard of righteousnness requires that he be just (diko), and that justice requires penalty for breaking his law.
Being just, he cannot be partial, therefore, all law-breaking (sin) must be punished, with no exceptions, if he is not to be partial.

There is a pardon from that penalty for law-breaking for all who choose to accept it on its terms.
Those who do not accept it, remain guilty of law-breaking and subject to its punishment, determined only by the Lawgiver and Judge.

We are to forgive our enemies for two reasons:
1) God forgave his enemies--us (Romans 5:10), at a much higher price than we will ever pay in forgiving our enemies, and

2) we don't know that they are God's enemies, they may be part of his elect, in which case they will be our own brethren at
some point.
 
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Clare73

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Question 41:

Why didn't God warn Adam and Eve that the consequence for disobeying him would be everlasting torment?
Because that is not true,
everlasting torment is due to rejection of sin's remedy, not due to sin itself.
Scriptures reports no rejections by Adam and Eve of the remedy.
 
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Clare73

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I think that is an Evangelical fallacy. No one chooses to go to hell.
You do if you reject the remedy which prevents you from going to hell for sin.

If I drive over the "bridge out" regardless of the sign warning of such,
I have most definitely "chosen" to be in the bottom of the river.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
 
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Clare73

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I think Jesus is clearly talking about salvation. To echo Hammsters point, the longer version in Luke 13:22 makes it sound like it is directed against people at the time who personally rejected him. In the end people will come from all over. I think it ends on an optimistic note. Of course Luke tends to be more optimistic than Matthew. For another example, see Luke 14:15, the great banquet. In Luke, while many of the original guests are rejected, in the end everybody is brought in. In Matthew that ending is omitted.
Everyone is brougt in in Matthew 22:8-10. . .everyone is brought in in both gospels.
Why you pickin' on Matthew?
Probably because Matthew was concerned about faithfulness of a community under some level of opposition. For him, billions of followers of Jesus in the future isn't relevant. But Luke looked at the broader picture of the growing Gentile mission.
Luke is probably closer to answering the question of whether many are saved.
Don't know where you are getting that.

Matthew reports the same thing as Luke. . .actually Matthew is more inclusive, inviting both "good and bad."
 
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Davy

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Where is the logic in creating an endless problem for yourself?

That statement doesn't make sense.

God created Satan perfect in his ways in the beginning before he rebelled in coveting God's throne. We learn this in the parables He gave in Ezekiel 28. Where have you been? You're behind in that study.
 
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Davy

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I think that is an Evangelical fallacy. No one chooses to go to hell.

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

KJV

I guess you missed understanding what Peter said there then.

How could God, not wishing that any soul perish, then cast those who refuse Him into the future lake of fire? It is based on THEIR CHOICE to refuse Him. It's as simple as that, and a no brainer. You just aren't thinking.
 
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Davy

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Loaded question? Not really.

"Does God ask us to forgive our enemies when He is ultimately not willing to do the same in the end?"

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. (vs 44) And declared it as perfect godly behavior. (vs 48) Is God incapable of living up to his own standard?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor" and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Like He said in Nahum 1:9, there won't be rebellion a second time.

Those who love The Father and His Son don't want any rebellious anti-God haters in His future Kingdom, and there won't be. So now, today, is the time for one to make their CHOICE to believe on Jesus Christ, or not. One's fate depends on one's choice.
 
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Halbhh

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Why did God create Satan, if he already knew ahead of time all the evil that Satan was going to do?

"Free will" doesn't mean a superficial illusion of freedom of choice and action, but an actual one. Free will best fits scripture, and what is predestined is how we are to be saved, instead of our individual choices.

It would seem pretty clear that angels also have free will, and that would explain why 1/3rd fell.

As to why the influence of the 'enemy' is allowed to continue, that's because God doesn't want people that merely follow His will when it's easy, and that cannot stay faithful over the longer run when challenged by temptations...

He wants those that really believe in Him and will preserve and show they can choose the Good in the long run, as many of us need more time to show here in this mortal place of choice.... (while some would need less time, some will need more time).

So, the 'enemy' serves a purpose -- he will help make us choose -- within a reasonably shorter period of time, just months or decades, instead of thousands of years to choose and show our real long run choice.
 
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Clare73

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Why did God create Satan, if he already knew ahead of time all the evil that Satan was going to do?
Because Satan serves his purpose very well (Romans 9:23).
 
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martymonster

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Because that is not true,
everlasting torment is due to rejection of sin's remedy, not due to sin itself.
Scriptures reports no rejections by Adam and Eve of the remedy.

OK, so where does it say the penalty for rejecting Christ is Hell?
 
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Clare73

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OK, so where does it say the penalty for rejecting Christ is Hell?
John 3:18, John 3:36.

The condemnation of God's wrath is to the eternal lake of fire (Matthew 25:41).
 
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GallagherM

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I believe that hell is done and over with and the lake of fire.

I believe that people who do not want anything to do with God they will be put far away from Him - in the Realms of Heaven. (There is the outside of Kingdom) - Those who desire to be with God (will be with God in the Heavenly Jerusalem).

I do not believe that preaching hell fire damnation to others; what Good news it that anyway?

I am going to hell forever and ever and ever because of ?

A person will say I do not want anything to do with God because of that.

What is the truth of the matter is what you have to ask yourself? Study seek and find what the bible has to say.

Check out the information here: The Hell Test

Is Salvation A Deliverance
From Hell or Eternal Death?

By Gary Amirault
 
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Clare73

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OK, so where does it say the penalty for rejecting Christ is Hell?
Those verses that you have referenced, say nothing of the sort.
John 3:18 -- consequences = condemned

John 3:36 -- consequences = God's wrath remains on him

Matthew 25:41 -- judgment is to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

God's condemnation, wrath and judgment are all the same thing, to the same place--eternal fire.
 
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GallagherM

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If Sin as paid for how can anyone really be held accountable aside from the responsibility of whatever they do?

Are they accountable to God alone? Yes, sure. We all are.

There are people who desire God; and there are people who simple do not care for God and desire nothing to do with Him.

What would the destination of these people be? (Revelation 22) ~ Either with God; or far away from God outside the kingdom.
 
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misput

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40 Questions against traditional Christianity and the doctrine of Hell

Who will answer?
  1. Why did God create Satan, if he already knew ahead of time all the evil that Satan was going to do?
  2. If the majority of the world won’t be saved because of the work of the enemy, then doesn’t Satan win? Why would God allow this if He is “all-powerful” and “all- knowing”?
  3. Who created evil in the first place? – (Isaiah 45:7)
  4. Do earthly parents love their children more than God does? – Earthly parents would never torture their children for disobedience, nor would they annihilate them, or separate themselves from their children for all eternity.
  5. Does God actually love all people the same? If so, why are some people given thousands of chances to hear the Gospel and experience his love, while other people are born into the worst conditions, simply trying to survive and begging for food, never coming in contact with a missionary in their lives?
  6. Does God ask us to forgive our enemies when He is ultimately not willing to do the same in the end?
  7. Is being punished forever for sins committed in a short lifetime really “justice”? Or can we never understand his form of justice?
  8. If we are called to become more like God, but yet we can’t understand his justice, how can we ever strive to reflect his true character?
  9. Does God operate on a completely different moral scale than us? (His evil is our good, our good is his evil).. or are we truly made in his image?
  10. If God does NOT will for anyone to perish, but already knows ahead of time that they will, why does he still create them? Knowing that they may never even have a chance to hear the Gospel?
  11. Is the only purpose of this present life to make it into heaven? If so…
  12. Do all babies and children go to heaven? Wouldn’t it be more compassionate to abort a baby and ensure its salvation, than allow it to grow up and possibly go to hell?
  13. If God is love (1 John 4:8 ) and loves all people, and love supposedly never fails (1 Corinthians 13:8) and love is what draws people to God, how is it that the majority of humanity won’t be saved? Seems like God’s love fails most of the time.
  14. If God truly wills for all to be saved, does God not get what God wants?
  15. What does it mean that one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord? – Will God be forcing everyone to worship him? Or will people freely be worshipping him?
  16. Does everybody really get the same fair chance to believe in Jesus before they die? If hell is the worst possible fate of mankind, and if God is truly loving, then…
  17. Why did He fail to mention “hell” in Genesis as the price for sin?
  18. Why doesn’t the Old Testament ever teach about or even mention “hell”?
  19. Why does apostle Paul never once mention hell?
  20. Why was hell not the orthodox position of the early Church for five centuries after Christ?
  21. Why can the most studious theologians not agree if we are saved by election or free will?
  22. Why do some of the most literal translations of the Bible, Young’s Literal Translation and the Concordant Literal NT, not mention “hell” or “eternal” punishment on a single page?
  23. Which Bible am I supposed to use to derive my truth from? -Even Greek scholars cannot agree on this.
  24. Why would God purposely blind people and then send them to hell? (Exodus 4:11; John 12:39–40)
  25. If hell was real why didn’t Moses warn about this fate in the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Covenant consisting of over 600 laws, ordinances, and warnings? The Mosaic Law simply stated blessings and cursings IN THIS LIFETIME for failure to keep the Mosaic Law.
  26. Why did God NOT clearly define that the wages of sin would be eternal damnation in hell? Why did he instead say that the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH?
  27. If hell is real, why don’t the Jews, many who know the Old Testament better than most Christians, not believe in the modern Christian concept of hell? They say they don’t believe it because it is not in their Scriptures.
  28. If hell doesn’t exist in the Old Testament, how could Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a place that is not even found in their Scriptures? (There was only the Old Testament at that time.)
  29. If hell is real, since SOME English translations use the word “hell” for the Greek word “Gehenna,” in the New Testament, why didn’t this same place (Gehenna) get translated hell in the many places where it appears in the Hebrew form “ga ben Hinnom” in the Old Testament? If the Jews did not understand this valley as a symbol of everlasting torture, why do SOME English translations give this word such a meaning?
  30. If hell was real, why did the early church appoint an avowed universalist as the President of the second council of the church in Constantinople in the fourth century? (Gregory Nazianzen, 325-381)
  31. If hell was real and a place of no escape, why did the early church teach Jesus went to Hell (Hades), preached to them and led captivity captive?” (Eph. 4:8,9; Psalm 68:18; 1 Peter 3:18-20
  32. If hell was real and the grave settled the matter forever, why did the early Christians offer up prayers for the dead?
  33. If hell was real, why didn’t the church teach it until AFTER the church departed from reading the Bible in Greek and Hebrew, substituting Latin in its stead several centuries after Christ’s death?
  34. If hell was real, why did not a single Christian writer of the first 3 centuries declare universalism as a heresy?
  35. Did Jesus intentionally doom non-Jews to hell? (Matthew 10:5–6; Matthew 15:22–24)
  36. What kind of person does God resist? Is. 29:13–14; Luke 10:21–22; John 12:39–40; 1 Cor. 1:27–29 (see CLT)
  37. Did Paul wish to be eternally separated from God in hell? Romans 9:3
  38. If hell was real and found in the original Greek manuscripts of the Bible, why is it that it was primarily those church leaders who either couldn’t read Greek (Minucius Felix, Tertullian), or hated Greek as in the case of Augustine, that the doctrine of Hell was advocated?
  39. Is fire (i.e. “lake of fire”) a literal fire? Deut. 4:20; Zeph. 3:8–9; Mark 9:49; Luke 3:16; 1 Cor. 3:15; Heb. 12:29
  40. How can people be dead forever if death is destroyed? Isaiah 25:8; 1 Corinthians 15:26; Revelation 20:14
Source: 40 Questions against traditional Christianity and the doctrine of Hell
Most of these questions reveal a pitiful lack of understanding. Like questions an atheist would ask.
 
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