Speaking in Tongues and Having The Ability to Interpret Them

ARBITER01

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Haha, you got me there!
My wife has the gift of interpretation far more that I do, although I tend to get visions when in tongues, and that directs my understanding.

My argument is based in principles more than personal experience, and I hate seeing silly religious shackles being thrown at people.

In regards to what the scriptures leave out, for decades I have moved extensively in tongues for warfare, by which I mean directly confronting the powers and principalities rather than asking God. In warfare, my human mind is not equipped to grasp what's going on in the spiritual realm, whereas my spirit is closely connected to the Lord.
Attacking the enemy in vociferous tongues of war is very effective.

Agree.

Anyone who is going to be used strongly with The Lord will quickly come up against spiritual battles that are just beyond our comprehension, where we must take it beyond our mind and rely upon our prayer life and our connection with The Lord.

Such things increase our measure of faith.
 
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ARBITER01

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Actually, because prophecy and interpretation of tongues comes through the believers' own minds, interpreting what they sense in their spirit, the inspiration may be of the Spirit, but the expression could be from their own minds. This is why all prophecy and interpretation is evaluated (judged) by the others present to ensure that it reflects the spirit of Scripture and meets the criteria of encouragement, comfort, exhortation, and edification of believers.

Oscarr, in the assembly, the gifts are to be operated by The Holy Spirit. All utterance is to be by The Holy Spirit, just like how the gifts started out in Acts 2.

Our minds are not to be in the way.
 
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Oscarr, in the assembly, the gifts are to be operated by The Holy Spirit. All utterance is to be by The Holy Spirit, just like how the gifts started out in Acts 2.

Our minds are not to be in the way.
How would you account for when a prophecy is given, others judge it and ask questions about whether it is of God or not?

So, Benny Hinn prophesying that by 1975 the fire of God will totally wipe out the gay community in America is the Holy Spirit speaking through him? How can we know what is true and what is false if we presume that all prophecy comes directly from the Holy Spirit?
 
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Oscarr, in the assembly, the gifts are to be operated by The Holy Spirit. All utterance is to be by The Holy Spirit, just like how the gifts started out in Acts 2.

Our minds are not to be in the way.
Furthermore, if all utterance has to come directly from the Holy Spirit, ie: dictated by Him, then the utterance would be equivalent to Scripture, and added to the New Testament.

If all prophecy given from Paul's time onward to the present day is directly dictated by the Holy Spirit, the New Testament would now require a warehouse to contain all the volumes produced. Even in Paul's time, he had no problems with none of the prophecies given in churches not being recorded. And the Church, when compiling the canon of Scripture, had no problem with all the prophecies given in fellowship meetings that, if given directly by dictation of the Holy Spirit should have been treated as Holy Scripture. So, it seems that the prophecies given then and today are not seen as Holy Scripture but utterance at a lower level and open to judging and questioning if seen to be suspect.

In my view, anyone who makes a big deal of saying, "This is what the Lord is saying" to give divine authority to his prophecy, would cause me to have strong reasonable doubts as to his intentions in giving the prophecy, and therefore I would safely ignore everything he says.
 
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ARBITER01

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How would you account for when a prophecy is given, others judge it and ask questions about whether it is of God or not?

Oscarr, we want the pure word of The Holy Spirit spoken to us, not someone's mind in the way of it. The pattern was established at the start of Acts 2.

Prophesiers (notice I didn't use the word prophets?) are to do nothing more than provide an utterance by The Holy Spirit in a human language. People are able to discern if it follows the "Edification, Encouragement, and Comfort" pattern in scripture or not.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Presumption is believing something where there is no Scriptural foundation for it. This is why modern predictive prophecy "for the nation" is largely presumption, because there is no Scriptural foundation for it under the New Covenant.

I saw the war in what was Yugoslavia, six months before it broke out, and alerted the Slavic Gospel Mission.
 
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I saw the war in what was Yugoslavia, six months before it broke out, and alerted the Slavic Gospel Mission.
That is the manifestation of the word of knowledge enabling you to forewarn those who could give practical help to those affected by the events to follow.
 
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Carl Emerson

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That is the manifestation of the word of knowledge enabling you to forewarn those who could give practical help to those affected by the events to follow.

In old testament times it would have been considered prophetic...
 
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ARBITER01

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That is the manifestation of the word of knowledge enabling you to forewarn those who could give practical help to those affected by the events to follow.

Word of knowledge deals with current and past events, the gift associated with futuristic happenings is the word of wisdom. It is GOD's wisdom to know all the future.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Word of knowledge deals with current and past events, the gift associated with futuristic happenings is the word of wisdom. It is GOD's wisdom to know all the future.

Personally I don't think you are correct.

But that is OK we all have our opinions.
 
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ARBITER01

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Personally I don't think you are correct.

But that is OK we all have our opinions.

Of course, the gift of the word of wisdom is the one of the hardest gifts to understand and define. I follow what Howard Carter taught about it. You can find his studies in two books,...

https://www.amazon.com/Questions-An...rds=howard+carter+gifts&qid=1623981323&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Gifts-Spirit...&keywords=harold+horton&qid=1623981559&sr=8-1

Horton's book published the notes that were taken during a women's bible study with Carter.

After repeated confirmations by The Holy Spirit throughout these two books from Carter, I have no reason to follow others and their ideas on the gifts.
 
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In old testament times it would have been considered prophetic...
Well, it is prophetic because you had a word of knowledge in order to warn the Christian gospel organisation to prepare for the upcoming war. It is the same as someone getting a distinct impression that his friend should not book a certain flight but take a later one, and then found out the earlier one had crashed with no survivors.
 
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Word of knowledge deals with current and past events, the gift associated with futuristic happenings is the word of wisdom. It is GOD's wisdom to know all the future.
Well, if you want to draw it with a drafting pencil, no problem. I tend to draw things with a road marker!
 
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ARBITER01

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At the end of the day if Jesus is glorified and the Holy Spirit is working with us, does it really matter what descriptors we use for the gifts?

Doctrine does matter in a lot of cases.

Too many people make up some weird definitions of the gifts. I've mentioned it before in posts on here how tongues does not heal and prophecy doesn't raise the dead, etc. Some of the gifts are not easily defined in scripture, and because of that some folks have attached some really oddball definitions to them.

The contrast between the material from the older generations and what is available now is beyond stark. I trust the older generations because they depended on GOD way more than the current crop of Christians do.
 
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ARBITER01

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Well, if you want to draw it with a drafting pencil, no problem. I tend to draw things with a road marker!

Maybe I have looked into it more Oscarr.

There's no grey area in the gifts, they are separate in operation.
 
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Francis Drake

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That is the manifestation of the word of knowledge enabling you to forewarn those who could give practical help to those affected by the events to follow.
Whether word of knowledge, prophecy, vision, or tongues and interpretation, it is still the spirit of prophecy at work, all serving the same purpose to bring revelation to the saints.
 
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Word of knowledge deals with current and past events, the gift associated with futuristic happenings is the word of wisdom. It is GOD's wisdom to know all the future.
I disagree.
Whether past, present or future, it can all be revealed by a word of knowledge. In fact, one way that the veracity of words for the future are proved is by declaring hidden facts from the past and present, followed by a word about the future.

Knowledge is not the same as wisdom. Knowledge is merely information. Wisdom is about function or use of that information.

The best illustration of a word of wisdom is with Solomon when the two women came arguing over which was the mother of the living child as opposed to the dead child.
Solomon could have asked the Lord for a word of knowledge, and perhaps accurately declared that the woman in the red dress is the mother. And the woman in the blue dress, her child is dead.
But that would never have silenced the dead child's mother who would have continued to claim the living child, nor would it have guaranteed to the palace watchers that it was the right answer.

In contrast, wisdom commanded the baby should be cut in half, at the same time knowing that it would never happen. The real mother immediately cried out that the swordsman should stop and let the false mother have the child, thus proving her maternal love for the child. The false mother demanded the baby be cut in half.

That simple word of wisdom instantly revealed the true mother, and everyone in the palace knew it with no doubts.

That's the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

Jesus repeatedly used the word of wisdom to cause the revealing of facts.
 
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I disagree.
Whether past, present or future, it can all be revealed by a word of knowledge. In fact, one way that the veracity of words for the future are proved is by declaring hidden facts from the past and present, followed by a word about the future.

Knowledge is not the same as wisdom. Knowledge is merely information. Wisdom is about function or use of that information.

The best illustration of a word of wisdom is with Solomon when the two women came arguing over which was the mother of the living child as opposed to the dead child.
Solomon could have asked the Lord for a word of knowledge, and perhaps accurately declared that the woman in the red dress is the mother. And the woman in the blue dress, her child is dead.
But that would never have silenced the dead child's mother who would have continued to claim the living child, nor would it have guaranteed to the palace watchers that it was the right answer.

In contrast, wisdom commanded the baby should be cut in half, at the same time knowing that it would never happen. The real mother immediately cried out that the swordsman should stop and let the false mother have the child, thus proving her maternal love for the child. The false mother demanded the baby be cut in half.

That simple word of wisdom instantly revealed the true mother, and everyone in the palace knew it with no doubts.

Well we have two gifts mentioned here. Each gift must do separate things, they don't share attributes. I can't raise the dead by my interpretation of tongues, and my discerning of spirits does not provide an overabundant source of food for a season like the gift of faith would.

I say one gift deals with facts, and the other deals with GOD's purpose and will.

How we each define them will probably be different.
 
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