Motivation in Morality

Treeplanter

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Consider this:

Were I to donate my time and energy helping to feed the hungry at a soup kitchen, I think we can all agree that this would be a good and moral thing

Regardless of my motivation/reason for being there - it is a moral ACTION because there is good coming from it, right?

Hungry people are being fed
That's good

It is my contention, though, that my status as a moral PERSON hinges entirely upon my motivation/reason for undertaking said action

If I help to feed the hungry primarily because I care about people and I desire to alleviate their suffering and to benefit their lives then I am a moral person on the basis of doing so

If, on the other hand, I help to feed the hungry primarily because my boss at work is pressuring me to do so and I am angling for a promotion then I am NOT a moral person on the basis of donating my time and energy to a soup kitchen



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eleos1954

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Consider this:

Were I to donate my time and energy helping to feed the hungry at a soup kitchen, I think we can all agree that this would be a good and moral thing

Regardless of my motivation/reason for being there - it is a moral ACTION because there is good coming from it, right?

Hungry people are being fed
That's good

It is my contention, though, that my status as a moral PERSON hinges entirely upon my motivation/reason for undertaking said action

If I help to feed the hungry primarily because I care about people and I desire to alleviate their suffering and to benefit their lives then I am a moral person on the basis of doing so

If, on the other hand, I help to feed the hungry primarily because my boss at work is pressuring me to do so and I am angling for a promotion then I am NOT a moral person on the basis of donating my time and energy to a soup kitchen



Agree?
Disagree?
Thoughts?
Monetary donations? {PM me and I'll give you an address}

well ... you say this ....

Regardless of my motivation/reason for being there - it is a moral ACTION because there is good coming from it, right?

and then you give an example that does indeed has motive behind it.

???

so what motivates someone does matter (i.e. selfless or selfish motives)
 
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Clare73

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Consider this:

Were I to donate my time and energy helping to feed the hungry at a soup kitchen, I think we can all agree that this would be a good and moral thing

Regardless of my motivation/reason for being there - it is a moral ACTION because there is good coming from it, right?

Hungry people are being fed
That's good

It is my contention, though, that my status as a moral PERSON hinges entirely upon my motivation/reason for undertaking said action

If I help to feed the hungry primarily because I care about people and I desire to alleviate their suffering and to benefit their lives then I am a moral person on the basis of doing so

If, on the other hand, I help to feed the hungry primarily because my boss at work is pressuring me to do so and I am angling for a promotion then I am NOT a moral person on the basis of donating my time and energy to a soup kitchen



Agree?
Disagree?
Thoughts?
Monetary donations? {PM me and I'll give you an address}
If you do so because you love God who commands it, you are a "moral" person.
 
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public hermit

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Consider this:

Were I to donate my time and energy helping to feed the hungry at a soup kitchen, I think we can all agree that this would be a good and moral thing

Regardless of my motivation/reason for being there - it is a moral ACTION because there is good coming from it, right?

Hungry people are being fed
That's good

It is my contention, though, that my status as a moral PERSON hinges entirely upon my motivation/reason for undertaking said action

If I help to feed the hungry primarily because I care about people and I desire to alleviate their suffering and to benefit their lives then I am a moral person on the basis of doing so

If, on the other hand, I help to feed the hungry primarily because my boss at work is pressuring me to do so and I am angling for a promotion then I am NOT a moral person on the basis of donating my time and energy to a soup kitchen



Agree?
Disagree?
Thoughts?
Monetary donations? {PM me and I'll give you an address}

In this case, I would say the act is good, but the goodness of the act (attribution of intention) cannot be attributed to you by much but mostly to your boss. It is true that you could have prevented the act from happening, which secures a thimble of merit towards your account perhaps. But if your motives were in no way moved by the good that would obtain for the recipient of your (compelled) act of charity, then you basically become a tool.
 
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Treeplanter

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well ... you say this ....

Regardless of my motivation/reason for being there - it is a moral ACTION because there is good coming from it, right?

and then you give an example that does indeed has motive behind it.

???

so what motivates someone does matter (i.e. selfless or selfish motives)
Actually, I gave TWO motives for the same moral action

One selfless
and
one selfish

We all, presumably, agree that the individual who does the right thing for the right {i.e. selfless} reason is a moral person

The question, though, is this:
Is the person who does the right thing for the wrong {selfish} reason also a moral person?
 
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Treeplanter

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If you do so because you love God who commands it, you are a "moral" person.
So a person who does the right thing and is motivated to do the right thing by a love for his/her fellow man is not / cannot be moral?
 
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Treeplanter

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In this case, I would say the act is good, but the goodness of the act (attribution of intention) cannot be attributed to you by much but mostly to your boss.
Huh???

I presented TWO separate motivations

One, a selfless love for one's fellow man and the other, a desire to selfishly score brownie points with one's boss

I don't think anyone is going to disagree that the person who selflessly feeds the hungry out of a love for his fellow man is a moral person

What I want to know, however, is whether any of you will call moral a man who feeds the hungry only because he is selfishly trying to advance himself?
 
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public hermit

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What I want to know, however, is whether any of you will call moral a man who feeds the hungry only because he is selfishly trying to advance himself

I answered that. I should have used "he" instead of "you." My apologies.

He gets some credit for fulfilling the boss's intention to feed the hungry. He could have not done it. He knows what the boss wants, i.e. feed the hungry. If he were less selfish, and perhaps more spiteful, he could gave refused and the good deed would not have obtained. How much credit does he get on that account? Not much. So, my answer was he is not a moral person in that particular instance, but a tool for his boss's good intentions. He's a tool.
 
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partinobodycular

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Consider this:

Were I to donate my time and energy helping to feed the hungry at a soup kitchen, I think we can all agree that this would be a good and moral thing

Regardless of my motivation/reason for being there - it is a moral ACTION because there is good coming from it, right?

Hungry people are being fed
That's good

It is my contention, though, that my status as a moral PERSON hinges entirely upon my motivation/reason for undertaking said action

If I help to feed the hungry primarily because I care about people and I desire to alleviate their suffering and to benefit their lives then I am a moral person on the basis of doing so

If, on the other hand, I help to feed the hungry primarily because my boss at work is pressuring me to do so and I am angling for a promotion then I am NOT a moral person on the basis of donating my time and energy to a soup kitchen



Agree?
Disagree?
Thoughts?
Monetary donations? {PM me and I'll give you an address}
If I understand my Catholicism correctly, a sinful action is always sinful, but the culpability for that action can be lessened depending upon the circumstances and the intentions. I would assume that the merit for a moral action can likewise be lessened by the circumstances and intentions.

But personally, I see no moral merit in feeding the hungry.
 
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Clare73

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Clare73 said:
If you do so because you love God who commands it, you are a "moral" person.
So a person who does the right thing and is motivated to do the right thing by a love for his/her fellow man is not / cannot be moral?
Did I say that?

I am adding to the group of the moral, not subtracting from it.
 
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Treeplanter

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I answered that. I should have used "he" instead of "you." My apologies.

He gets some credit for fulfilling the boss's intention to feed the hungry. He could have not done it. He knows what the boss wants, i.e. feed the hungry. If he were less selfish, and perhaps more spiteful, he could gave refused and the good deed would not have obtained. How much credit does he get on that account? Not much. So, my answer was he is not a moral person in that particular instance, but a tool for his boss's good intentions. He's a tool.
No apologies necessary!

So, you're saying that, in order to be a moral person, it's not enough just to do what is right and good, but you must also do so for the right reason{s}?
 
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Treeplanter

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Did I say that?
Not explicitly, no - but isn't that what you were implying?

My contention, as stated in the OP, is that one's status as a moral person hinges entirely upon one's motivation/reason for undertaking a good and right action

Your exact response was:
"If you do so"
{i.e. if you do what is good and right}
"because you love God who commands it, you are a "moral" person."

This, to me, certainly implies that you are stating that doing what is good and right, in the absence of a love for God, is not enough, in your eyes, to qualify a person as moral


And besides that, I was just asking...
 
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Treeplanter

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If I understand my Catholicism correctly, a sinful action is always sinful, but the culpability for that action can be lessened depending upon the circumstances and the intentions. I would assume that the merit for a moral action can likewise be lessened by the circumstances and intentions.

But personally, I see no moral merit in feeding the hungry.
I would agree
A sinful action is always, in and of itself, sinful

However, is the person committing a sinful action always guilty of being sinful or does intent matter?

What if I tricked a Christian into taking the name of the Lord in vain by means of asking him/her to read aloud a blasphemous statement which I have written in the Czech language - a language not understood by the Christian

The Christian will have, technically, sinned by virtue of taking the name of the Lord in vain

Is it fair, though, to call the Christian a sinner on this basis or is it true that in order to qualify as a sinner one must consciously and purposefully choose to sin?


ETA:
No moral merit in caring for our fellow man?
 
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public hermit

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No apologies necessary!

So, you're saying that, in order to be a moral person, it's not enough just to do what is right and good, but you must also do so for the right reason{s}?

I think moral acts, if they are going to qualify as being done for a good end, should also include the intention to obtain that same end. I want to say "acts" instead of "persons" because I wouldn't say a person's moral character can be assessed on the basis of one act. But, yeah, intentions matter.
 
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Treeplanter

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I am adding to the group of the moral, not subracting from it.
My last post to you was in response to "See post #10" which, at the time of my last post to you, was simply "If you do so because you love God who commands it, you are a "moral" person."

Not sure what you are meaning to say now about "adding to the group of the moral"?

If there was no "huffiness' intended, then my apologies!
 
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Treeplanter

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I think moral acts, if they are going to qualify as being done for a good end, should also include the intention to obtain that same end. I want to say "acts" instead of "persons" because I wouldn't say a person's moral character can be assessed on the basis of one act. But, yeah, intentions matter.
I agree - a moral character is formed not by individual acts, but rather by a preponderance of acts

That said, I am glad to hear that intentions, in your opinion, matter
 
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Clare73

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Actually, I gave TWO motives for the same moral action

One selfless
and
one selfish

We all, presumably, agree that the individual who does the right thing for the right {i.e. selfless} reason is a moral person
The question, though, is this:
Is the person who does the right thing for the wrong {selfish} reason also a moral person?
Depends on the definition of moral person.

What is the definition?

I suspect it is: one who does what is moral.

You need to define "moral."

Oops! Post not addressed to me.
 
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Clare73

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My last post to you was in response to "See post #10" which, at the time of my last post to you, was simply "If you do so because you love God who commands it, you are a "moral" person."

Not sure what you are meaning to say now about "adding to the group of the moral"?
I was not excluding there the one who does the moral thing because of love of God from the group who does the moral thing because of the love of man, I was including them in that group of the moral.
If there was no "huffiness' intended, then my apologies!
No offense.
 
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