Was the Crucifixion really on a Friday?

cfposter

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cfposter

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I don't think deceptive is the right word. Irrelevant is a better fit.

It's irrelevant what we call the days of the week, and so bringing it up is pointless. If done as an intentional red herring, that would be deceptive; but that would also involve attributing motive--which may be unfair.

-CryptoLutheran

It's very relevant what we call the days of the week. And it is very relevant what the Jews called the days of the week and what historians called the days of the week. I suggest you read the Title of this thread and look over the OP.
 
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ViaCrucis

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It's very relevant what we call the days of the week. And it is very relevant what the Jews called the days of the week and what historians called the days of the week. I suggest you read the Title of this thread and look over the OP.

Okay, let's try that then.

Here are the days of the week, numerically:

1. First Day
2. Second Day
3. Third Day
4. Fourth Day
5. Fifth Day
6. Sixth Day
7. Seventh Day

Here are those same days, now using Hebrew names for those seven days:

1. Yom Rishon
2. Yom Sheni
3. Yom Shlishi
4. Yom Revi'i
5. Yom Chamishi
6. Yom Shishi
7. Yom Shabbat

Here are those same days, now as the ancient Greeks called them,

1. Hemera Heliou
2. Hemera Selenes
3. Hemera Areos
4. Hemera Hermou
5. Hemera Dios
6. Hemera Aphrodites
7. Hemera Kronou

Here are those same days, now as the ancient Romans called them,

1. dies Solis
2. dies Lunae
3. dies Martis
4. dies Mercurii
5. dies Iovis
6. dies Veneris
7. dies Saturni

Here are those same days, now as the Anglo-Saxons called them,

1. Sunnandæg
2. Monandæg
3. Tiwesdæg
4. Wodnesdæg
5. Þunresdæg
6. Frigedæg
7. Sæternesdæg

Here are those same days, now as modern English-speakers call them,

1. Sunday
2. Monday
3. Tuesday
4. Wednesday
5. Thursday
6. Friday
7. Saturday

Other than what they are called, depending on language, what's the difference between Yom Rishon, Sunnandæg, and the 1st day of the week? Name a difference, name any difference whatsoever.

If a German calls my dog a hund, tell me, are they wrong?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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klutedavid

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Philo says it is. Here is from a previous post I made in this thread:

THE DECALOGUE XXX (161)

Philo: The Decalogue

But to the seventh day of the week he has assigned the greatest festivals, those of the longest duration, at the periods of the equinox both vernal and autumnal in each year; appointing two festivals for these two epochs, each lasting seven days; the one which takes place in the spring being for the perfection of what is being sown, and the one which falls in autumn being a feast of thanksgiving for the bringing home of all the fruits which the trees have produced. And seven days have very appropriately been appointed to the seventh month of each equinox, so that each month might receive an especial honour of one sacred day of festival, for the purpose of refreshing and cheering the mind with its holiday.

We can see in the excerpt above that Philo is telling us that the Sabbath DAY (7th day of the week) is assigned to the Feast of Unleavened Bread and to the Feast of Tabernacles.
Well I will accept that as Philo was older than the apostles. Philo lived in the same era as Jesus. Philo also visited the second temple in Jerusalem. Interesting that he says, 'the seventh day of the week he has assigned the greatest festivals'.

Does that then mean that the dates 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, are Sabbaths based on the Lunar calendar?
 
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cfposter

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cfposter

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Okay, let's try that then.

Here are the days of the week, numerically:

1. First Day
2. Second Day
3. Third Day
4. Fourth Day
5. Fifth Day
6. Sixth Day
7. Seventh Day

Here are those same days, now using Hebrew names for those seven days:

1. Yom Rishon
2. Yom Sheni
3. Yom Shlishi
4. Yom Revi'i
5. Yom Chamishi
6. Yom Shishi
7. Yom Shabbat

Here are those same days, now as the ancient Greeks called them,

1. Hemera Heliou
2. Hemera Selenes
3. Hemera Areos
4. Hemera Hermou
5. Hemera Dios
6. Hemera Aphrodites
7. Hemera Kronou

Here are those same days, now as the ancient Romans called them,

1. dies Solis
2. dies Lunae
3. dies Martis
4. dies Mercurii
5. dies Iovis
6. dies Veneris
7. dies Saturni

Here are those same days, now as the Anglo-Saxons called them,

1. Sunnandæg
2. Monandæg
3. Tiwesdæg
4. Wodnesdæg
5. Þunresdæg
6. Frigedæg
7. Sæternesdæg

Here are those same days, now as modern English-speakers call them,

1. Sunday
2. Monday
3. Tuesday
4. Wednesday
5. Thursday
6. Friday
7. Saturday

Other than what they are called, depending on language, what's the difference between Yom Rishon, Sunnandæg, and the 1st day of the week? Name a difference, name any difference whatsoever.

If a German calls my dog a hund, tell me, are they wrong?

-CryptoLutheran

Those questions are not of concern to me at this point. AGAIN, I would point you to the Topic of this forum, it should be pretty clear from there that I referring to the day of "Friday". And I'm obviously interested more in the terms used in the Bible such as the ordinals of 1 - 7th day as well as the ordinals for days of the year or month.
 
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cfposter

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Well I will accept that as Philo was older than the apostles. Philo lived in the same era as Jesus. Philo also visited the second temple in Jerusalem. Interesting that he says, 'the seventh day of the week he has assigned the greatest festivals'.

Does that then mean that the dates 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, are Sabbaths based on the Lunar calendar?

Yes, that is correct. Every 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day is a Sabbath. The first day of a month is the New Moon. Once you know this and know when to look for the days based on the moon, it become much easier to rule out certain days claimed as the Crucifixion because they wont fit the criteria. You can pretty much be assured that anyone that doesn't see that the Jew used a Lunar Calendar for their feast days and sabbaths are going to be flawed in their reasoning going forward with respect to timelines relative to this topic.
 
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klutedavid

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Yes, that is correct. Every 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day is a Sabbath. The first day of a month is the New Moon. Once you know this and know when to look for the days based on the moon, it become much easier to rule out certain days claimed as the Crucifixion because they wont fit the criteria. You can pretty much be assured that anyone that doesn't see that the Jew used a Lunar Calendar for their feast days and sabbaths are going to be flawed in their reasoning going forward with respect to timelines relative to this topic.
I was already aware of the Lunar calendar but was unsure whether the day count was from the new moon.

I know that in the book of Samuel there are two occurrences to a day count from the new moon. But Philo seems to have answered that question.
 
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klutedavid

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Yes, that is correct. Every 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day is a Sabbath. The first day of a month is the New Moon. Once you know this and know when to look for the days based on the moon, it become much easier to rule out certain days claimed as the Crucifixion because they wont fit the criteria. You can pretty much be assured that anyone that doesn't see that the Jew used a Lunar Calendar for their feast days and sabbaths are going to be flawed in their reasoning going forward with respect to timelines relative to this topic.
Why is this lunar calendar almost invisible in the scripture. Not many people would be aware of this calendar in the Old Testament.
 
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cfposter

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I was already aware of the Lunar calendar but was unsure whether the day count was from the new moon.

I know that in the book of Samuel there are two occurrences to a day count from the new moon. But Philo seems to have answered that question.

Glad to see you get it. Good to know someone else in this thread can see it. But the usual trend evolves after you know this such as when does a year actually start. Those is still a gray area but for me it has become less gray lately.
 
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cfposter

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Why is this lunar calendar almost invisible in the scripture. Not many people would be aware of this calendar in the Old Testament.

Good question. Maybe it was something so obvious that people didn't think it needed explanation because they didn't expect that people like us would be in need to ask such questions. Or maybe it was a crime or offense at some point to impose the idea that a Lunar Calendar could/should be used to track these events. I really don't know but your right, it seems interesting that is isn't more clear in the Bible itself.
 
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HARK!

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I don't believe that the first visible crescent is the new moon. I believe the new moon is when there is no light in the moon. That is consistent with Philo and Enoch.

In Enoch it says:

The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXIV

I wrote down their positions as he showed them to me, and I wrote down their months as they were, and the appearance of their lights till fifteen days were accomplished. 3. In single seventh parts she accomplishes all her light in the east, and in single seventh parts accomplishes all her darkness in the west.

So above it shows that Enoch is starting to count the month from the New Moon since there is 14 days of the light that he counts but says he counted for 15 days.

I wrote down their positions as he showed them to me, and I wrote down their months as they were, and the appearance of their lights till fifteen days were accomplished.

When does the light of the new moon appear?

3. In single seventh parts she accomplishes all her light in the east, and in single seventh parts accomplishes all her darkness in the west.

Why does the moon's light precede the moon's darkness?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Well I will accept that as Philo was older than the apostles. Philo lived in the same era as Jesus. Philo also visited the second temple in Jerusalem. Interesting that he says, 'the seventh day of the week he has assigned the greatest festivals'.

Does that then mean that the dates 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, are Sabbaths based on the Lunar calendar?

 
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Davy

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cfposter

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I try to avoid understanding scripture through the lens of Hellenistic philosophy.

That is not a refutation to the accuracy of Philo's statements regarding the observance of the Feast Days and the Sabbaths.
 
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cfposter

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I wrote down their positions as he showed them to me, and I wrote down their months as they were, and the appearance of their lights till fifteen days were accomplished.

When does the light of the new moon appear?

3. In single seventh parts she accomplishes all her light in the east, and in single seventh parts accomplishes all her darkness in the west.

Why does the moon's light precede the moon's darkness?

A new moon doesn't have light. The "NEW" Phase of a moon is on the second day of the month when the first sliver is seen.

So it takes 15 days of a month to reach a FULL MOON. and then recedes in 14 days giving you 29 days from a counting standpoint of a month. Therefore, every month only has 4 weeks in it. Why is this important? - consider when you have to count the omer. You don't count the non weekdays in between the months such as the new moon day. So when the scriptures say to count 7 complete weeks, it doesn't mean count 49 days and then one more for 50 days consecutively. But rather it means count 7 LUNAR weeks and then one more day for 50 days. This will result in MORE than 50 days consecutively.
 
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