The Error of Lordship Salvation?

[Clare73]

And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Very good.

But not all who come to him are saved (Matthew 7:22).
So what "went south" there in their "coming to" him?

There seems to be more in "coming to Jesus" than just "I believe," for those in Matthew 7:22 did much more than that, and still were nor saved. . .because he "never knew" them--in the fellowship of holiness and likenesss to him (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18) through obedience in the Holy Spirit.

 

[d taylor]

Lordship salvation is based in the Scriptures I presented in post #62, and repeated in my quoted post in post #121.

Feel free to show their "flawed teaching"

Their flaw is they are like these verses is John You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

So Lordship has searched the scriptures and put together a to do list for a person to receive salvation (better stated as receiving Eternal Life). But like the last part of these verses are they directing people away from actions they do and point the person only to The Messiah.

I do not care to get into a long (or really even a short) back and forth, i have done this too many times. I could post miles of information on this. If you want to read a few articles written about this feel free.

Lordship Salvation for Dummies – Grace Evangelical Society

Is Lordship Salvation a Saving Message? – Grace Evangelical Society​

 

[Clare73]

Lordship has searched the scriptures and put together a to-do list for a person to receive salvation (better stated as receiving Eternal Life). But like the last part of these verses are they directing people away from actions they do and point the person only to The Messiah.

Is this regarding the Scriptures I posted?
If so, I don't understand what you mean here by "directing away. . .and point to."

Could you illustrate your point from a couple of the Scriptures I presented.

Their flaw is they are like these verses is John You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

So the word of God in those 12 Scriptures is "flawed"?

I do not care to get into a long (or really even a short) back and forth,

I bet you don't!

Good move. . .I also wouldn't want to have to defend the word of God in those 12 Scriptures as being "flawed" or untrue.

 

[d taylor]

Very good.

But not all who come to him are saved (Matthew 7:22).
So what "went south" in their "coming to" him?

There seems to be more in "coming to Jesus" than just "I believe," for those in Matthew 7:22 did much more than that, and still were nor saved. . .because he "never knew" them--in the fellowship of holiness and likenesss to him (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18) through obedience in the Holy Spirit.

Why just post one verse why not post the others verses

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

What does verse 21 say but he who does the will of My Father in heaven

What is the will of The Father look at John
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Do you know that the Gospel of John is the only Book of The Bible whose stated purpose for being written is to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life)

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

"Gratitude" pales in comparison to the desire for "the likeness of his Son" (Romans 8:29;
2 Corinthians 3:18) to fellowship with God in his Son (John 15:4).

Can you say "holiness"? (Hebrews 12:14)

Those are good reasons too, but fear of punishment, for one who has already accepted Christ's payment on the cross, shouldn't be one of them.

 

[Clare73]

What does verse 21 say but he who does the will of My Father in heaven

What is the will of The Father look at John
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So what happened to those in Matthew 7:22 that the
assurance from Jesus in yours above did not keep them from being cast out?

Evidently there are some conditions on that "assurance."

I have in mind one condition that includes the teaching of all the Scriptures I presented:
"Without holiness, no on will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

So surely you're not saying that the revelation of Paul (in his 12 Scritpures I presented), which he received from Jesus Christ personally in the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-5) is not the will of God?

Surely you aren't setting Paul against Jesus.

That, my friend, would be the heresy here, not "Lordship" salvation.

 

[Clare73]

Those are good reasons too, but fear of punishment, for one who has already accepted Christ's payment on the cross, shouldn't be one of them.

That's called a "straw man;" i.e., a point/argument that was not of the discussion.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

That's called a "straw man;" i.e., a point/argument that was not of the discussion.

I was referring to the teaching of Lordship salvation, which is the topic of this thread.

 

[d taylor]

So what happened to those in Matthew 7:22 that the
assurance from Jesus in yours above did not keep them from being cast out?

Evidently there are some conditions on that "assurance."

I have in mind one condition that includes the teaching of all the Scriptures I presented:
"Without holiness, no on will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

So surely you're not saying that the revelation of Paul (in his 12 Scritpures I presented), which he received from Jesus Christ personally in the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-5) is not the will of God?

Surely you aren't setting Paul against Jesus.

That, my friend, would be the heresy here, not "Lordship" salvation.

What happened to those in Matthew, can you show me where it is stated those in Matthew believed in The Messiah for eternal Life. It is seen they have plenty of actions, they prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name. They even know how to say 'Lord, Lord'

The path is narrow, that means there is no room for any of your actions. there is only space for trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of Eternal Life.

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[Clare73]

What happened to those in Matthew, can you show me where
it is stated those in Matthew believed in The Messiah for eternal Life.

Can you show me where it is stated that Paul believed in The Messiah for eternal Life?

It is seen they have plenty of actions, they prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name. They even know how to say 'Lord, Lord'

The path is narrow, that means there is no room for any of your actions. there is only space for trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of Eternal Life.

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[d taylor]

Can you show me where it is stated that Paul believed in The Messiah for eternal Life?

Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.

 

[public hermit]

No fruit no salvation is untrue.

You have three examples in The Bible, in the parable of the soils ( i place in bold) in Luke, Matthew and Mark.

​

All three of the soils in bold sprang up in contrast to the first soil which was trampled down and birds of the air devoured it (the only unbelieving soil in the parable) .

2nd soil Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture.

3rd soil And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it.

4th soil But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

All of the three soils that sprang up believed and received God's free gift of Eternal Life. But only one of these three soils produced fruit.

This is a really interesting interpretation. So, you are saying the phrase "sprang up" indicates those who receive grace/eternal life. That makes sense. "Sprang up" brings resurrection to mind, or it did for me once you pointed it out. What is it that springs up, the word that is sown or the person? Does it make a difference to this interpretation?

 

[Clare73]

Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.

So by his actions, though it is not specificaly stated, you know that Paul believed in the Messiah for eternal Life.

So do the actions of those in Matthew 7:22--working miracles, casting out demons and even prophesying, all in the name of Jesus, likwise indicate they also believed in him for eternal Life?

 

[Clare73]

This is a really interesting interpretation. So, you are saying the phrase "sprang up" indicates those who receive grace/eternal life. That makes sense. "Sprang up" brings resurrection to mind, or it did for me once you pointed it out. What is it that springs up, the word that is sown or the person? Does it make a difference to this interpretation?

How about professed faith in the word of God?

 

[public hermit]

How about professed faith in the word of God?

You mean as the referent for "sprang up?" That makes sense, too.

 

[d taylor]

This is a really interesting interpretation. So, you are saying the phrase "sprang up" indicates those who receive grace/eternal life. That makes sense. "Sprang up" brings resurrection to mind, or it did for me once you pointed it out. What is it that springs up, the word that is sown or the person? Does it make a difference to this interpretation?

I believe the sprang up, is the word, what God is sowing is the word, that Jesus is the promised Messiah. These three soils that sprang up heard that, understood and believed causing the springing up of the seed.

 

[d taylor]

So by his actions, though it is not specificaly stated, you know that Paul believed in the Messiah for eternal Life.

So do the actions of those in Matthew 7:22--working miracles, casting out demons and even prophesying, all in the name of Jesus, likwise indicate they also believed in him for eternal Life?

Show me where these people ever proclaimed That Jesus is The Son of God like Paul did. They call Jesus Lord just like Paul did before he became a believer.

And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

 

[Clare73]

Show me where these people ever proclaimed That Jesus is The Son of God like Paul did.

Is calling Jesus the Son of God the same as believing in his blood (Romans 3:5)
for the remission of your sin?

They call Jesus Lord just like Paul did before he became a believer.

And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

But before Paul became a believer, you would not have found him doing wondrous works
in Jesus' name as those in Matthew 7:22 were doing.

Like Paul, does not their behavior and the actions reported in Matthew 7:22 indicate they believed in Jesus?

Why would they be doing all those works and expecting to be with him in eternity if they did not believe in him?

 

[d taylor]

You mean as the referent for "sprang up?" That makes sense, too.

Here is another verse that also has the idea springing up reference.

Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

When a person believes the Word springs up into Everlasting life., whether its water or seeds.

 

[public hermit]

Here is another verse that also has the idea springing up reference.

Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

When a person believes the Word springs up into Everlasting life., whether its water or seeds.

I never made the connection that you did with "sprang up" and the three soils. It is a common denominator of those soils, but does it have the significance you're giving it? I will have to sit with that a bit. But I like it. Do you know if it's the same Greek in both this passage and the soils?