The Error of Lordship Salvation?

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Oompa Loompa

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I just wanted to jump back to this post because I think you overlooked a very important issue. You quoted gotquestions.org about grace salvation and admitted that if was a "one of your favorite resources". Yet the article you referenced specifically says this regarding Lordship Salvation:

Both views are within the limits of orthodoxy. Still, this does not mean it’s an insignificant discussion.
Do you agree with this statement and that the OP claim (that Lordship Salvation is heresy) is wrong?

GotQuestions.org is one of my favorite resources. Here's what it has to say about Christians who don't believe in Lordship salvation:



If you place your assurance of salvation on your own works, rather than God's promises, you will always have doubt.

 
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Humble_Disciple

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Nowhere does Genesis indicate that Lot had a holy life, surrendered to God as Master of his life. And yet, according to 2 Peter 2:7, Lot was a righteous man.

This is because Lot was declared righteous by his faith, rather than by works. (Romans 4:5) We can also look at the lives of King Solomon, King David, and numerous others in the Bible.

In the words of Martin Luther, "Through faith in Christ, therefore, Christ’s righteousness becomes our righteousness and all that He has becomes ours; rather, He Himself becomes ours."

While we should live a holier life than Lot did, it's not required for salvation. This is the difference between justification and sanctification, faith and discipleship, entering heaven and being rewarded in heaven.

What is the purpose of there being rewards in heaven? | GotQuestions.org
 
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d taylor

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Lordship salvation and other types of this approach to salvation.

Appeal to humanity's sinful nature, in that they offer a person the false belief that a person can contribute to their salvation by doing something other that simple belief. It may be baptism, repentance from sin, obedience, commitment, following God's Law, opening the door, inviting Jesus into your heart, confessing Christ. bearing your cross, following Christ, denying yourself, the list can go on and on. Really whatever a charismatic personally decides is necessary and of course they will use the Bible to make their salvation legitimate
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Nowhere does Genesis indicate that Lot had a holy life, surrendered to God as Master of his life. And yet, according to 2 Peter 2:7, Lot was a righteous man.

This is because Lot was declared righteous by his faith, rather than by works. (Romans 4:5) We can also look at the lives of King Solomon, King David, and numerous others in the Bible.

In the words of Martin Luther, "Through faith in Christ, therefore, Christ’s righteousness becomes our righteousness and all that He has becomes ours; rather, He Himself becomes ours."

While we should live a holier life than Lot did, it's not required for salvation. This is the difference between justification and sanctification, faith and discipleship, entering heaven and being rewarded in heaven.

What is the purpose of there being rewards in heaven? | GotQuestions.org
And scripture says that we will cast our crowns "rewards" at God's feet because true righteousness isn't motivated by the selfish ambition of eternal personal rewards. Our sole motivation for obedience is because God is God and we are His creation. Nothing more and nothing less. Jesus said "If you love me, you will follow my commandments." Therefore, obedience ought to be motivated by the love of our Lord. Not because we expect any reward for our efforts.
 
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Humble_Disciple

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Jesus said "If you love me, you will follow my commandments."

I agree. We should follow the Lord's commands out of love and gratitude, rather than fear of losing or never earning our salvation. As far as being rewarded for obedience, while it's not a condition of saving faith, it is promised throughout the New Testament.
 
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Clare73

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No fruit no salvation is untrue.
It's no fruit = no evidence or assurance of salvation which is true. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
You have three examples in The Bible, in the parable of the soils ( i place in bold) in Luke, Matthew and Mark.
All three of the soils in bold sprang up in contrast to the first soil which was trampled down and birds of the air devoured it (the only unbelieving soil in the parable) .

2nd soil Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture.

3rd soil And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it.

4th soil But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

All of the three soils that sprang up believed and received God's free gift of Eternal Life. But only one of these three soils produced fruit.


“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience

When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it,then the wicked one
comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The sower sows the word. And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirty fold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”
 
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GraceInChrist

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If you deny the plain meaning of those 12 Scriptures, then it falls to you to demonstrate they "go against many other Scriptures" in the light of all Scripture. . .one good way to do this would be to demonstrate what you say they actually mean rather than what I am "forcing" them to mean, when all I did was present them as they are written--no commentary involved.

What you are actually demonstrating here is that their own plain wording is so evidently contradictory to your theology that it must be becasue I am "forcing" them to mean what they plainly state.

That's just goofy. . .
Being patronizing doesnt fix your bad teology. I wish you took your time and listen what others are trying to teach you.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Is the physical act of water baptism required for salvation? What if someone says they are saved but deliberately choose not to be baptized?

Edit: I will just cut to the chase. You mentioned that baptism is not a work but a "gift". Regardless, if water baptism is a sacrament necessary for salvation, the act of receiving the gift by being water baptized is in itself a "work". Therefore, you believe if works based salvation if you presume accepting the gift of baptism through immersion is a requirement for salvation. I do not now, or have ever, suggested that our works are necessary for salvation. But it isn't true that we are not saved by works. We are! But the work is done entirely by that of the Holy Spirit and they physical act of water baptism is merely an ordinance that is symbolic of the spiritual "fire baptism" after one is justified.

Then be baptize with your works of the law. Baptism gives us grace, it is a gift in which we are granted into his finish work. Nothing more. You sound very southern baptist tbh. This is was the only thing all the fathers of the church agreed upon.
 
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GraceInChrist

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No fruit no salvation is untrue.

You have three examples in The Bible, in the parable of the soils ( i place in bold) in Luke, Matthew and Mark.

All three of the soils in bold sprang up in contrast to the first soil which was trampled down and birds of the air devoured it (the only unbelieving soil in the parable) .

2nd soil Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture.

3rd soil And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it.

4th soil But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

All of the three soils that sprang up believed and received God's free gift of Eternal Life. But only one of these three soils produced fruit.


“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience

When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it,then the wicked one
comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The sower sows the word. And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirty fold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

This is a verse about apostasy. Not about lordship.
 
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Clare73

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Lordship salvation and other types of this approach to salvation.

Appeal to humanity's sinful nature, in that they offer a person
the false belief that a person can contribute to their salvation
Their false belief is not based on the teaching of the doctrine, but on their misunderstanding of the teaching of the doctrine. . .which misunderstanding has been explained here more than once.

The "misunderstanding" seems to be deliberate, in an attempt to deny
all the NT commands to pursue and grow in the holiness of faith (Hebrews 12:14).
by doing something other that simple belief. It may be baptism, repentance from sin, obedience, commitment, following God's Law, opening the door, inviting Jesus into your heart, confessing Christ. bearing your cross, following Christ, denying yourself, the list can go on and on. Really whatever a charismatic personally decides is necessary and of course they will use the Bible to make their salvation legitimate
 
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Clare73

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I agree. We should follow the Lord's commands out of love and gratitude,
"Gratitude" pales in comparison to the desire for "the likeness of his Son" (Romans 8:29;
2 Corinthians 3:18) to fellowship with God in his Son (John 15:4).

Can you say "holiness"? (Hebrews 12:14)
rather than fear of losing or never earning our salvation. As far as being rewarded for obedience, while it's not a condition of saving faith, it is promised throughout the New Testament.
 
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Clare73

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Clare73 said:
]If you deny the plain meaning of those 12 Scriptures, then it falls to you to demonstrate they "go against many other Scriptures" in the light of all Scripture. . .one good way to do this would be to demonstrate what you say they actually mean rather than what I am "forcing" them to mean, when all I did was present them as they are written--no commentary involved.

What you are actually demonstrating here is that their own plain wording is so evidently contradictory to your theology that it must be becasue I am "forcing" them to mean what they plainly state.

That's just goofy. . .
Being patronizing doesnt fix your bad teology. I wish you took your time and listen what others are trying to teach you.
Non-responsive to the Scriptures presented.
 
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d taylor

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It's no fruit = no evidence or assurance of salvation which is true. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Assurance of salvation rest in The Messiah and His promise. that anyone who believes in Him receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Assurance does not rest in fruit production. If it did then assurance would be a product of a person and not God.
 
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d taylor

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Their false belief is not based on the teaching of the doctrine, but on their misunderstanding of the teaching of the doctrine. . .which misunderstanding has been explained here more than once.

The "misunderstanding" seems to be deliberate, in an attempt to deny
all the NT commands to pursue and grow in the holiness of faith (Hebrews 12:14).

The teaching of Lordship salvation is flawed and flawed teaching births flawed beliefs.
 
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Clare73

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Assurance of salvation rest in The Messiah and His promise. that anyone who believes in Him receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Assurance does not rest in fruit production. If it did then assurance would be a product of a person and not God.
Where does Scripture state this assurance is from God?

And it's self-assurrance (you make) (2 Peter 1:10; Matthew 7:20)--not a guarantee or certainty--from the evidence of your obedience.
 
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Clare73

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The teaching of Lordship salvation is flawed and flawed teaching births flawed beliefs.
Lordship salvation is based in the Scriptures I presented in post #62, and repeated in my quoted post in post #121.

Feel free to show their "flawed teaching"
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Then be baptize with your works of the law. Baptism gives us grace, it is a gift in which we are granted into his finish work. Nothing more. You sound very southern baptist tbh. This is was the only thing all the fathers of the church agreed upon.
You still have not answered the question as to the eternal consequences of those professing to be "Christian" and deliberately refuse to accept the "gift" of water baptism. Remember, the thief on the cross wasn't baptized. The physical act of water baptism gives nothing to the one being baptized and there is nothing in scripture that suggests otherwise. We are baptized by water for two reasons: 1. Because Jesus himself was baptized. 2. Because he commanded us to baptize in the Great Comission. To even suggest that physical immersion is necessary for salvation is itself works based salvation and is on par with your accusations against Lordship Salvation.
 
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d taylor

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Where does Scripture state this assurance is from God?

And it's self-assurrance (you make) (2 Peter 1:10; Matthew 7:20)--not a guarantee or certainty--from the evidence of your obedience.

And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
 
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