CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

[Guojing]

#441 was not about the Tribulation. Sure you got the correct message number?

I have pasted the post there anyway

 

[GenemZ]

I have pasted the post there anyway

That does not make sense.... I think you got the wrong post number...

Copy and paste that post in your response to me. What I see in that post makes no sense. It was not even posted by you.

 

[Guojing]

That does not make sense.... I think you got the wrong post number...

Copy and paste that post in your response to me. What I see in that post makes no sense. It was not even posted by you.

If the Tribulation is 7 years, if one believes in Jesus in year 1, but come year 5, decided that he needs to participate in the economic system of buying and selling and thus take the mark.

Was he ever saved from year 1 to year 5?

 

[GenemZ]

If the Tribulation is 7 years, if one believes in Jesus in year 1, but come year 5, decided that he needs to participate in the economic system of buying and selling and thus take the mark.

Was he ever saved from year 1 to year 5?

Its contradictory.... You either believe? Or you don't.

Now? If one "appears" to believe, and he did not? Then he was simply herd bound and believing was not the issue. He was only acting to fit in.

Believing is believing. Appearing to believe is not the same thing.

Some people get married because their friends were all getting married. But, that does not mean they married in love. Believing involves love.

Besides... the world is going to be insane during the Tribulation. There will be 144,000 evangelists all around the world.... and even angels will be evangelizing at one point. Your question was presented as if the world will be in a state of normalcy. Many would rather die than to betray the Lord when that takes place. As far as your question? Its sort of silly to consider seriously the more you know what they will face during the Tribulation.

 

[Guojing]

Its contradictory.... You either believe? Or you don't.

Now? If one "appears" to believe, and he did not? Then he was simply herd bound and believing was not the issue. He was only acting to fit in.

Believing is believing. Appearing to believe is not the same thing.

Some people get married because their friends were all getting married. But, that does not mean they married in love. Believing involves love.

Besides... the world is going to be insane during the Tribulation. There will be 144,000 evangelists all around the world.... and even angels will be evangelizing at one point. Your question was presented as if the world will be in a state of normalcy. Many would rather die than to betray the Lord when that takes place. As far as your question? Its sort of silly to consider seriously the more you know what they will face during the Tribulation.

So what you saying is, if one believes in Jesus in year 1, there is always a possibility that he may take the mark of the beast anytime from then on.

Thus, during the Tribulation, you confirm your salvation at the end of the 7 years.

Would that be correct characterization of your explanation?

 

[GenemZ]

So what you saying is, if one believes in Jesus in year 1, there is always a possibility that he may take the mark of the beast anytime from then on.

Thus, during the Tribulation, you confirm your salvation at the end of the 7 years.

Would that be correct characterization of your explanation?

I did not say what you want me to have said. Nor, am I going to agree with you in your inability to grasp what I said...

 

[Psalm 27]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑
CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Then you cannot believe Jesus' words.

He said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Please share any verse that very clearly teaches that eternal life can be lost, taken away, forfeited, canceled, given back, or any other wordings to indicate that someone can end up not having the gift they were given.

Note that I'm not requiring any specific words, but that the clear idea of no longer having eternal life is being warned about or stated.

1 Thess. 5:19
Quench not The Spirit of Holiness.

 

[Guojing]

I did not say what you want me to have said. Nor, am I going to agree with you in your inability to grasp what I said...

I am trying to understand what you are saying in that long post of yours.

If you don't want to simplify, we can move on.

I am not surprised you don't wish to address my scenario though. People who believed that Jesus was preaching OSAS during the 4 gospels, always avoid the Tribulation scenario. You are the second in this thread so far.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It shows that verse 26 is directly connected to verse 25 not 18 as you purport.

Both verses say the SAME THING. Of course they are directly connected.

Since you disagree with my view, then address specifically what you disagree with re: my comments of v.26.

The word for In grammar is connective An indeclinable word which serves to unite sentences or the clauses of a sentence.

No problem.

And as was said the word for is used to assign a reason to what had just been previously stated in the last sentence. There in verse 25 we are called to exhort one another daily as we see the day approaching. For if we sin willfully after we have received there remains no more sacrifice BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FORWARD TO JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION which shall devour the adversaries. Judgment and fiery indignation, which is the day approaching in verse 25. The day that God's adversaries, those who are sinning willful after having received the knowledge of the truth shall be devoured. Because they trodden under foot the Son of God and done despite unto the Spirit of Grace.[/QUOTE]
Are you trying to say that v.26 shows that salvation can be lost?

.

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning willingly after we received the knowledge of the truth, a sacrifice is no longer remaining (for) sins;
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (Destruction through the fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries; those who are willfully sinning); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

OK, summarize, please.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
There is only 1 gospel message, and it is to all of humanity. Titus 2:11

That is why you can't help but to read Paul into everything else in the bible.

If you would take the time to read through all of Acts, you will discover that ALL of Paul's preaching came from the OT. When he spoke of the Scriptures, that's all that was available.

So why wouldn't I find Paul's view into everything else in the Bible?

Acts 26:22 - But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen—

It's always helpful to know the whole counsel of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So what you saying is, if one believes in Jesus in year 1, there is always a possibility that he may take the mark of the beast anytime from then on.

Thus, during the Tribulation, you confirm your salvation at the end of the 7 years.

Would that be correct characterization of your explanation?

If any believer will take the mark, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 is a LIE.

Is that your argument, really? Is that what you are trying to prove by your "what if..."?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked LGW this:
"Please share any verse that very clearly teaches that eternal life can be lost, taken away, forfeited, canceled, given back, or any other wordings to indicate that someone can end up not having the gift they were given.

Note that I'm not requiring any specific words, but that the clear idea of no longer having eternal life is being warned about or stated."

1 Thess. 5:19
Quench not The Spirit of Holiness.

So you think this shows that salvation can be lost? Why? It's a command to believers. It says nothing about salvation.

What do you think of this verse?

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Here we have a similar command to stop, and Paul adds the reminder that believers are sealed FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

That sure doesn't sound like losing salvation to me.

Some scholars view grieving and quenching as the same thing, others view them as different, with maybe some overlap.

I think quenching refers to sin that results in loss of fellowship. In that state, the believer is not filled with the Spirit, which is also a command in Eph 5:18.

And quenching is when a believer get involved in human good activities, or false doctrines. In both cases, fellowship with the Holy Spirit is lost, and the believer ls no longer being filled with the Spirit.

ps: you have "Christian seeker" on your signature line. What does that mean? Are you seeking how to be a Christian, or are you a Christian who is seeking something else? Thanks.

 

[Guojing]

If any believer will take the mark, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 is a LIE.

Is that your argument, really? Is that what you are trying to prove by your "what if..."?

No, my point is that Jesus was not preaching OSAS during his 1st coming.

If he did, he would have contradicted himself later when he said Matthew 24:13, which is describing the Tribulation.

As I said, you are trying to insert Paul's doctrine into John 10:28, instead of rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am trying to understand what you are saying in that long post of yours.

If you don't want to simplify, we can move on.

I am not surprised you don't wish to address my scenario though. People who believed that Jesus was preaching OSAS during the 4 gospels, always avoid the Tribulation scenario. You are the second in this thread so far.

Stop it. I've answered your silly "what if..." scenario several times now.

But you have just ignored my answer. So don't go around OSAS people avoiding the trib scenario. I sure haven't.

So, why have you avoided my answer?

 

[Guojing]

Stop it. I've answered your silly "what if..." scenario several times now.

But you have just ignored my answer. So don't go around OSAS people avoiding the trib scenario. I sure haven't.

So, why have you avoided my answer?

Remind me again where you actually answered it?

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, my point is that Jesus was not preaching OSAS during his 1st coming.

Sure He did. John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28, 11:25-27.

If he did, he would have contradicted himself later when he said Matthew 24:13, which is describing the Tribulation.

"but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

biblestudytools.com begins Matt 24 with this:
The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times

So we know the context refers to END TIMES. That is the Tribulation.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Now v.13 makes sense and isn't referring to eternal soul salvation.

But it seems you really want to catch Jesus in a contradiction.

As I said, you are trying to insert Paul's doctrine into John 10:28, instead of rightly dividing the word of truth.

That is ridiculous. Jesus' words are very clear. Recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

That is Jesus talking. All it seems you are trying to do is prove that Jesus LIED.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Remind me again where you actually answered it?

I'm not going to sift through multiple pages just because you claim to have forgotten or missed. I just answered it again. So deal with that.

 

[Guojing]

Sure He did. John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28, 11:25-27.


"but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

biblestudytools.com begins Matt 24 with this:
The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times

So we know the context refers to END TIMES. That is the Tribulation.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Now v.13 makes sense and isn't referring to eternal soul salvation.

But it seems you really want to catch Jesus in a contradiction.


That is ridiculous. Jesus' words are very clear. Recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

That is Jesus talking. All it seems you are trying to do is prove that Jesus LIED.

As I already said to you, since you are unwilling to consider the possibility that you may have misinterpreted what Jesus meant, we can move on.

 

[Guojing]

I'm not going to sift through multiple pages just because you claim to have forgotten or missed. I just answered it again. So deal with that.

My claim is that you did not answer it at all.

But if you believe otherwise, we can just move on.

 

[Psalm 27]

I asked LGW this:
"Please share any verse that very clearly teaches that eternal life can be lost, taken away, forfeited, canceled, given back, or any other wordings to indicate that someone can end up not having the gift they were given.

Note that I'm not requiring any specific words, but that the clear idea of no longer having eternal life is being warned about or stated."

So you think this shows that salvation can be lost? Why? It's a command to believers. It says nothing about salvation.

What do you think of this verse?

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Here we have a similar command to stop, and Paul adds the reminder that believers are sealed FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

That sure doesn't sound like losing salvation to me.

Some scholars view grieving and quenching as the same thing, others view them as different, with maybe some overlap.

I think quenching refers to sin that results in loss of fellowship. In that state, the believer is not filled with the Spirit, which is also a command in Eph 5:18.

And quenching is when a believer get involved in human good activities, or false doctrines. In both cases, fellowship with the Holy Spirit is lost, and the believer ls no longer being filled with the Spirit.

ps: you have "Christian seeker" on your signature line. What does that mean? Are you seeking how to be a Christian, or are you a Christian who is seeking something else? Thanks.

↑
1 Thess. 5:19
Quench not The Spirit of Holiness.

So you think this shows that salvation can be lost? Why? It's a command to believers. It says nothing about salvation.

What do you think of this verse?

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
—————————————————————
I believe that grieve and quench have two different meanings. The point is, according to Paul, He can be quenched.