Law abolished = New Covenant

[Sidon]

-
One of the members here, and I, have been having a discussion about "the law" for a few days.

This person, along with many believers, has been taught, this...

"the reason we are born again , is ...so that we can go now and keep the law perfectly".

So, this particular theology, where Salvation is being Legalized, is a very common belief. Its actually a broken faith.
This pursuit of : "God saved us, so that we can now go and keep the law perfectly, (try)".

Well, this is wrong on so many levels.....theologically, spiritually, and especially >faith related.
This terrible theology absolutely contradicts everything the Cross was raised to Accomplish, and did through the blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago.

So, let me post the harmful theology and then give you the correct teaching.

1.) The person says...>"we are saved so that we can now keep the law".

However....
Paul says.....>"Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law".
This means that the Law is not for us, it was always against us, and designed with a purpose.
The purpose of the Law, was not for anyone to keep it as New Testament Discipleship, but rather MOSES gave us the law, and the law is a Righteous Mirror that Reflects our sinfulness against us.
The Law shows us that we are NOT RIGHTEOUS, as its main purpose to exist.
Repentance, is seeing ourselves as unrighteous, lost, damned, and that is the LAW shining that spotlight. And in this hot light, we see ourselves as needing to be rescued.
The NT words for that is SAVED/Redeemed/Born again.
And in comes God on the Cross to save us.
Are you born again?


And again, a person says..

2.) "God saved us so that we can now go and keep the law".

Now, hear Paul... "brethren, you are become DEAD TO THE LAW, that you should be married to another, even Him who was raised from the Dead, = that we the born again should bring forth fruit to God.".

Now see that verse?
It is telling you a lot.
Its telling you that you are dead to the law. That means it has no power over you, or in you, and you are not to seek it or chase it, or worship it.
Notice, that if you are born again, you have left the law, and are MARRIED TO JESUS.
So, what that means is.......before you were saved, you were in a "curse" of trying to be accepted by God, by keeping the law. And you can't. And that is the CURSE that Jesus came to redeem you from...
See that?
So, why would you want to go back to the curse, after Christ shed His blood to free you from the LAW?
A.) Ask the pulpits that teach this lie to their people.

Notice carefully that the theological error says..."we are saved to keep the law".
Yet Paul says..."we are saved so that the born again should bring fruit to God">

So, are those the same thing?
They are not.
See, keeping the law, is what your try to do, same as keeping commandments.
Thats all self effort.
Paul says, we are to bring fruit to God, and that is Christ as the VINE and us as the BRANCHEs, with the end result, "spiritual fruit", as HOLINESS.
WE are bringing this to GOD, as this is SPIRITUAL Fruit.
That's WHY we are "dead to the law" but alive to Jesus The Lord, > married to Him, forever.
And He's coming soon for you, if you are born again.
Keep an eye out for that soon day.

Next.
All religious Jews, believe that they are married to the law.
Paul says, that the laws is their curse, and once they are delivered from it, they are married to Jesus The Christ.
So, when your are talking to a jew about Jesus, many think that to turn to Him, is to commit adultery against their 1st husband, = the law.

Now, very important reader, is to understand that if you are married to Jesus....which is to be "made righteous" by His blood that makes you His body and Bride, then if you leave this faith and truth, and try to go back to the Law to keep it, that is to try to be again married to it, just like those religious Jews who crucified Christ.
See how that works in the Spirit realm, and in the Kingdom of God. ??????
You dont ever want to be that deceived one.
And yet, there are millions of believers who are born again, married to Christ, and are trying to keep the LAW so that God will be happy with them, when this Same GOD died on the Cross to deliver you from the "curse of the law".
See the problem?

This is a big deal, reader.
Its a very BIGGIE, as its a spiritual line crossed.
Listen....
Never try to keep the law, if you are born again, thinking you are pleasing God in your effort to be a law-keeper to be or stay accepted by Him.
When you do that, you have rejected God's GRACE that is the BLOOD ATONEMENT, and you have married the "curse" again with your FAITH.
If you do this as born again, you are "in the flesh", "bewitched", and "fallen from Grace".
You end up in heresy, and you will find yourself under the dominion of the law, that is this curse.
= This curse works like this reader. "The POWER OF SIN....is the LAW".
See that POWER?
I'll paraphrase... If you try to keep the law in an effort to be right with God, then the law will empower you carnality and you will sin and confess and sin and confess for as long as you are in that wrong mind of faith.
Millions of believers live in this "curse" all their life, till they die.

Now, here is how you see the law and commandments, correctly according to the NEW Covenant., ("time of the Gentiles".)
You do not try to keep them so that you stay saved, and you do not try to keep them, so that you go to heaven..
If that is your faith, and you are born again, then get out of that mind, as that is a curse you are chasing.
Never see the law or commandments like that, >as a savior along with Jesus<, as that wrong FAITH puts you under the law's dominion. And that law will curse you with its "power" and you will sin and confess and cant stop sinning.
Is that you?
Then LISTEN.
The only way you are to SEE the law and commandments as a born again believer, is to think of them as you would tell your youngest child...just like this.."honey....baby...dont touch that hot stove burner....see it??...its RED HOT...and that means it will burn you, if you touch it".
See that reader?
That is how you are to see the Law and Commandments... they are the behavior and lifestyle border, they are the hot red line you never cross. They are the safety net and the warning siren that you never bypass, because if you do, your life will catch on fire and you will suffer the heat as "reaping what you have sown", and that is going to hurt.

"be sure your sin will find you out"...... this wont happen in eternity, as Jesus has taken care of your sin on Earth.
But if you sin, if you choose carnal behavior and dont stop, wont stop, this is the problem carnality...... then you have seeded deeply in the spiritual realm, by doing something in the physical realm, and so the reaping will come to you, and find you.
"sowing and reaping" is 24/7.
That is why you keep those 10 commandments.


The best way to keep the 10, is to always do the 1st.
If you always do the First Commandment, then God will give you the Grace to always do the 2nd.
That's Salvation as your daily routine, if you are "working it out" right.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It sounds like you are confused here. You should listen to your friend. Jesus did not come to save us from our sins so that we can continue to sin. If we continue in sin it only shows we need to be born again not to practice sin according to 1 John 3:6-9 as those who are born again do not practice sin according to the scriptures and sin is defined in the scriptures as not believing God's Word *Romans 14:23 and breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments in James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4. We are not saved by keeping God's law however. We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. We only keep God's law by walking in the Spirit (the Word by faith - John 6:64; John 17:17) *Galatians 5:16 not to be saved by the law but because we haven entered into God's new covenant promise of Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and have been given a new heart to love. Faith therefore does not abolish Gods law it establishes Gods' law in all those who have been born again *1 John 3:6-9 believe and follow Gods' Word and have been made free to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16. You may also want to read the words of Jesus in John 8:31-36. Jesus came to save us from our sins not so that we can continue in sin. If we continue in sin we will die according to the scriptures in Romans 6:23; Romans 8:13 because in doing so we reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. God's law therefore is not abolished according to the scriptures it is established in the life of the believer through faith (see Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4).

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Sidon]

It sounds like you are confused here. You should listen to your friend. .

You just read a Thread that explains that God did not save using the Law, and that the law is a curse, and here you are trying to live in the curse.
So, that is both confused and worse.

Listen, Jesus came to take the curse of the law off of the redeemed..
The born again are "under Grace". no longer under the law.
So, when someone is teaching you to stay under the law, they are leading you away from God's Grace.
Keep that in mind.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You just read a Thread that explains that God did not save using the Law, and that the law is a curse, and here you are trying to live in the curse.
So, that is both confused and worse.

Listen, Jesus came to take the curse of the law off of the redeemed..
The born again are "under Grace". no longer under the law.
So, when someone is teaching you to stay under the law, they are leading you away from God's Grace.
Keep that in mind.

Where did I say that God saves us by the law? - I didn't. You did not read my post to you did you. What do you think my post to you was saying? You do not understand the old covenant or the new covenant. The scriptures provided in the first post were only provided in love and as a help to you.

May you receive Gods Word and be blessed.

 

[Sidon]

The scriptures provided in the first post were only provided in love and as a help to you.
May you receive Gods Word and be blessed.

You wrote..

"""""
27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love"""""

Listen, the believer can't abolish anything.
It's Christ who has abolished the law by His fulfilling it and dying, which "removes the curse of the Law".

So, the believer is not supposed to be now chasing the law, that Jesus has abolished, as proof of love.

Listen, "love" is proven by how we LOVE each other.
When we love, as God loves, which is God's love as our love, then we are above the law, because the Law is not of Love, its of LAW.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You wrote..

"""""
27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love"""""

Listen, the believer can't abolish anything.
It's Christ who has abolished the law by His fulfilling it and dying, which "removes the curse of the Law".

So, the believer is not supposed to be now chasing the law, that Jesus has abolished, as proof of love.

Listen, "love" is proven by how we LOVE each other.
When we love, as God loves, which is God's love as our love, then we are above the law, because the Law is not of Love, its of LAW.

Why are you making up things no one is talking about or has ever said to you? Where did I ever say that the believer is suppose to be chasing the law? If I never said such things why are you pretending that I did? No one believes or loves God or their fellow man according to the scriptures by breaking Gods commandments. You have not read any of my posts and the scriptures in them that show why your teachings of lawlessness (without law) is not biblical have you. If you did you would not be writing these posts and making up things no one has ever said to you.

 

[Sidon]

You have not read any of my posts and the scriptures in them that show why your teachings of lawlessness (without law) is not biblical

My Thread is very simple.
It simply states that we are no longer under the Law, as "Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the Law".
So, if you find that to be "non-biblical", then put down your commentaries and study the NT.

Find out why the NT has replaced the OT.
Find out why the Blood of Jesus is an eternal sacrifice that causes every born again person, to exist in the Kingdom of God, where the "law" does not exist.
Find out what the Kingdom of God, is, by studying this..

"we, (the born again), are translated FROM.......darkness.....>TO, LIGHT".

Study why, ""As Jesus IS, so are all the BORN AGAIN.....in this world"..

Start there, with those verses, lovegodsword< and then you'll hopefully begin to understand all my Threads, and not just this one.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

My Thread is very simple.
It simply states that we are no longer under the Law, as "Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the Law".
So, if you find that to be "non-biblical", then put down your commentaries and study the NT.

Find out why the NT has replaced the OT.
Find out why the Blood of Jesus is an eternal sacrifice that causes every born again person, to exist in the Kingdom of God, where the "law" does not exist.
Find out what the Kingdom of God, is, by studying this..

"we, (the born again), are translated FROM.......darkness.....>TO, LIGHT".

Study why, ""As Jesus IS, so are all the BORN AGAIN.....in this world"..

Start there, with those verses, lovegodsword< and then you'll hopefully begin to understand all my Threads, and not just this one.

Your thread is indeed very simple and unbiblical and shows you do not know what the old covenant is or what the new covenant is that the old covenant points to or what it means to be born again. Sadly it seems you have not read the posts and scriptures shared with you only in love and as a help to you that show why your teachings of lawlessness (without law) are not biblical and you seem to not want to enter into a discussion in regards to your OP and your claims in this thread. For those reasons, I think I will leave you with the scriptures already posted as I do not think there is any point in continuing a discussion your not willing to discuss. Let's talk more latter, when you want to read and discuss my posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with you. Until then I will leave the scriptures I have shared with you here between you and God to work through and we will agree to disagree.

 

[fhansen]

It's not:

"God saved us, so that we can now go and keep the law perfectly, (try)".

It's:
Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:12-13

God isn't expecting perfection, although that's certainly the ideal-He didn't create man to sin, after all, and Jesus came to reconcile man with God, taking away and purifying us from sin. And what about the flip side, is no amount of sin able to kill us all over again, to separate us from God? And can the Spirit not overcome sin in us, with our cooperation as we're aware of our obligation? The reason were no longer alienated from God, the reason we're no longer condemned, is precisely because God now fulfills the law in us, as we enter communion with Him via faith, to whatever degree He deems appropriate and sufficient by the end of our lives. So we have the most important New Covenant prophecy, quoted in Heb 8 & 10, from Jer 31:

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

God does this He by giving us the virtues to fulfill the law, primarily love.
"...love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:10

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

Love is the very definition of righteousness for man, which is why the greatest commandments are what they are. It's ok to have obligation, to be held morally accountable for the state of our hearts and the actions that flow from them, rather than, what, amoral beasts? Because that's how God makes something out of His beloved creation; He helps us to make the right choice, of good over evil, and grow stronger and stronger in it.

“But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

“...just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:21

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:22-23

“And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

God, alone, justifies man, not because of anything we do, aside from place our faith in Him. And that faith, itself, is a connection or union between ourselves and Him which is the essence and basis of righteousness for man, because only with Him can we even have any real righteousness. From there, finally, man can follow Micah 6:8:
"To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8

God offers us, God gives us, the ability to be, live, and act righteously, with our eternal destinies at stake. Should we mock Him and the sacrifice of His Son by denying Him that work in us?

 

[Soyeong]

-
One of the members here, and I, have been having a discussion about "the law" for a few days.

This person, along with many believers, has been taught, this...

"the reason we are born again , is ...so that we can go now and keep the law perfectly".

So, this particular theology, where Salvation is being Legalized, is a very common belief. Its actually a broken faith.
This pursuit of : "God saved us, so that we can now go and keep the law perfectly, (try)".

Well, this is wrong on so many levels.....theologically, spiritually, and especially >faith related.
This terrible theology absolutely contradicts everything the Cross was raised to Accomplish, and did through the blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago.

So, let me post the harmful theology and then give you the correct teaching.

1.) The person says...>"we are saved so that we can now keep the law".

However....
Paul says.....>"Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law".
This means that the Law is not for us, it was always against us, and designed with a purpose.
The purpose of the Law, was not for anyone to keep it as New Testament Discipleship, but rather MOSES gave us the law, and the law is a Righteous Mirror that Reflects our sinfulness against us.
The Law shows us that we are NOT RIGHTEOUS, as its main purpose to exist.
Repentance, is seeing ourselves as unrighteous, lost, damned, and that is the LAW shining that spotlight. And in this hot light, we see ourselves as needing to be rescued.
The NT words for that is SAVED/Redeemed/Born again.
And in comes God on the Cross to save us.
Are you born again?


And again, a person says..

Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to God's law through faith is what it looks like to receive the gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law. In Deuteronomy 28:1-14, it lists the blessing of living in obedience to God's law while verses 15-68 list the curse of living in disobedience to the law, so being saved from the curse of the law is again being saved from living in disobedience to it so that we can be free to live in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so the law does not just show us what is ungodly, but also teaches us how to do what is godly, righteous, and good. Furthermore, Titus 2:14 does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from any laws, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness. Saying that the law is not for us and returning to the lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from is rejecting what he did for us on the cross. In Deuteronomy 6:24 and 10:12-13, God's law was given for our own good, so it is only against those who refuse to submit to it, which is not a very good reason for you to refuse to submit to it. Nowhere does the Bible say that the main purpose of the Mosaic Law is to show us that we are not righteous, but rather sin is missing the mark, and the main purpose is to teach us how to hit the mark. In Ephesians 2:10 we have been made new creations in Christ in order to do good works, not in order to reject God's laws for how to do good works.

2.) "God saved us so that we can now go and keep the law".

Now, hear Paul... "brethren, you are become DEAD TO THE LAW, that you should be married to another, even Him who was raised from the Dead, = that we the born again should bring forth fruit to God.".

Now see that verse?
It is telling you a lot.
Its telling you that you are dead to the law. That means it has no power over you, or in you, and you are not to seek it or chase it, or worship it.
Notice, that if you are born again, you have left the law, and are MARRIED TO JESUS.
So, what that means is.......before you were saved, you were in a "curse" of trying to be accepted by God, by keeping the law. And you can't. And that is the CURSE that Jesus came to redeem you from...
See that?
So, why would you want to go back to the curse, after Christ shed His blood to free you from the LAW?
A.) Ask the pulpits that teach this lie to their people.

Notice carefully that the theological error says..."we are saved to keep the law".
Yet Paul says..."we are saved so that the born again should bring fruit to God">

So, are those the same thing?
They are not.
See, keeping the law, is what your try to do, same as keeping commandments.
Thats all self effort.
Paul says, we are to bring fruit to God, and that is Christ as the VINE and us as the BRANCHEs, with the end result, "spiritual fruit", as HOLINESS.
WE are bringing this to GOD, as this is SPIRITUAL Fruit.
That's WHY we are "dead to the law" but alive to Jesus The Lord, > married to Him, forever.
And He's coming soon for you, if you are born again.
Keep an eye out for that soon day.

Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so he spent his ministry teaching how to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to have a relationship with Christ, which means Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to have a relationship with him by teaching us to obey it. So it makes no sense to interpret Romans 7:6 as saying that the way to enter into a relationship with Jesus is by rejecting everything that Jesus spent his ministry teaching for how to enter into a relationship with Him. Likewise, it makes no sense to think that the way to bear fruit for God is by rejecting His instructions for how to bear fruit for Him. The poor verse did nothing to deserve such abuse from you. The way that the born again bear fruit for God is by keeping His law. Again, in Deuteronomy 28, the curse is not for those who seeking to keep God's law, but for those who refuse to submit to it. And again, Titus 2:14 does not say that Jesus gave his blood to free us from God's law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so our obedience to it is about having relying on God to guide us, not about self-effort.

Next.
All religious Jews, believe that they are married to the law.
Paul says, that the laws is their curse, and once they are delivered from it, they are married to Jesus The Christ.
So, when your are talking to a jew about Jesus, many think that to turn to Him, is to commit adultery against their 1st husband, = the law.

Now, very important reader, is to understand that if you are married to Jesus....which is to be "made righteous" by His blood that makes you His body and Bride, then if you leave this faith and truth, and try to go back to the Law to keep it, that is to try to be again married to it, just like those religious Jews who crucified Christ.
See how that works in the Spirit realm, and in the Kingdom of God. ??????
You dont ever want to be that deceived one.
And yet, there are millions of believers who are born again, married to Christ, and are trying to keep the LAW so that God will be happy with them, when this Same GOD died on the Cross to deliver you from the "curse of the law".
See the problem?

When two people get married, they get married to each other, not to the terms of their wedding contract, so interpreting Paul as speaking about getting married to the law itself is nonsense. The Mosaic Covenant was a marriage contract between God and Israel, not between Israel and the law. Thinking that we can commit adultery against Christ by repenting and following what Christ taught by word and by example in accordance with God has commanded is nonsense. God's law includes the law against adultery, so thinking that we commit adultery by obeying God's law against adultery is more nonsense. Interpreting the Bible as speaking against obeying God's word is even more nonsense. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so you are teaching to leave this faith and truth and to go back to the lawless that Christ gave himself to redeem us from. Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom and what we need to do in order to enter it. The way to be part of God's Kingdom is not by rejecting the laws of the King. To think that God commanded the law in order to deceive us is blasphemy, but rather let God's word be true and every man a liar.

This is a big deal, reader.
Its a very BIGGIE, as its a spiritual line crossed.
Listen....
Never try to keep the law, if you are born again, thinking you are pleasing God in your effort to be a law-keeper to be or stay accepted by Him.
When you do that, you have rejected God's GRACE that is the BLOOD ATONEMENT, and you have married the "curse" again with your FAITH.
If you do this as born again, you are "in the flesh", "bewitched", and "fallen from Grace".
You end up in heresy, and you will find yourself under the dominion of the law, that is this curse.
= This curse works like this reader. "The POWER OF SIN....is the LAW".
See that POWER?
I'll paraphrase... If you try to keep the law in an effort to be right with God, then the law will empower you carnality and you will sin and confess and sin and confess for as long as you are in that wrong mind of faith.
Millions of believers live in this "curse" all their life, till they die.

In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, in Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, and in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what God's law was given to instruct, so it is rejecting God's law that is rejecting His grace and Christ's atonement. It would be absurd to think that David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to fall from grace, or that we have received grace in order to bring about our fall from grace, or to think that our salvation involves being trained by grace to fall from grace. God's law is not sinful (Romans 7:7), so the power of sin can't be God's law, but rather it is the law of sin that is the power of sin. In Romans 7:14, God's law is spiritual, and in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have carnal minds, who are enemies of God, and who refuse to submit to His law.

Now, here is how you see the law and commandments, correctly according to the NEW Covenant., ("time of the Gentiles".)
You do not try to keep them so that you stay saved, and you do not try to keep them, so that you go to heaven..
If that is your faith, and you are born again, then get out of that mind, as that is a curse you are chasing.
Never see the law or commandments like that, >as a savior along with Jesus<, as that wrong FAITH puts you under the law's dominion. And that law will curse you with its "power" and you will sin and confess and cant stop sinning.
Is that you?
Then LISTEN.
The only way you are to SEE the law and commandments as a born again believer, is to think of them as you would tell your youngest child...just like this.."honey....baby...dont touch that hot stove burner....see it??...its RED HOT...and that means it will burn you, if you touch it".
See that reader?
That is how you are to see the Law and Commandments... they are the behavior and lifestyle border, they are the hot red line you never cross. They are the safety net and the warning siren that you never bypass, because if you do, your life will catch on fire and you will suffer the heat as "reaping what you have sown", and that is going to hurt.

There is no sense in someone thinking that they need salvation from living in transgression of God's law while also thinking that they have no obligation to refrain from living in transgression of God's law. Jesus said he would tell workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the lawlessness you are promoting is certainly not the way to the Kingdom of God.

 

[Brightfame52]

Those who Christ died for do keep the Law perfectly because Christ their Surety did it for them. He obeyed all of its Holy Precepts which they could not, He bore their punishment in incurring their curse and punishment because of their disobedience. So Christ for them has fulfilled the Law. Isa wrote Isa 42:21

21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[Sidon]

Your thread is indeed very simple and unbiblical and shows you do not know what the old covenant is or what the new covenant is that the old covenant points to or what it means to be born again.

The law is abolished regarding those who are no longer "under the law", but "under Grace".
That's your new Covenant.
That's the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The law is abolished regarding those who are no longer "under the law", but "under Grace".
That's your new Covenant.
That's the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

To be "under the law" according to Romans 3:19-20 means to stand guilty before God of breaking the law. All the law does according to the scriptures is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *Romans 3:20 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith (Galatians 3:22-25). Not being under the law means we have been forgiven for our sins (breaking God's law) *Romans 8:1-4. This is why Paul calls the law Holy, just and good in Romans 7:12. The new covenant is not a covenant of lawlessness (without law) because without God's law we have no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5 and faith according to Paul does not abolish God's law it establishes God's law in all those who believe and follow Gods' Word according to the scriptures in Romans 3:31. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

 

[Sidon]

God isn't expecting perfection, although that's certainly the ideal-
God offers us, God gives us, the ability to be, live, and act righteously, with our eternal destinies at stake. Should we mock Him and the sacrifice of His Son by denying Him that work in us?

When we are "made righteous", then we have become the end result of the Blood Atonement.
This is our "new creation", born again.

A born again person, starts "righteous", as the new Creation.
This is our born again SPIRIT.

Next, we have to live our life that is now "in Christ".
This is our discipleship, that we enter into, because we are born again.
This is the process of being conformed into Jesus, as our lifestyle, that is eventually completed when we get our new body.

Salvation is completed, and our righteousness achieved, as "the new Creation" 'In Christ", but our behavior, is based on our mind being renewed.
The Spirit is born again, but the MIND has to be renewed.
And that is accomplished when we only see ourselves as God has recreated us to exist as a "new Creation".

 

[Sidon]

Our salvation is from sin

There is no sense in someone thinking that they need salvation from living in transgression of God's law while also thinking that they have no obligation to refrain from living in transgression of God's law. .

Our salvation is more than just salvation from sin.
It is certainly that, but then we are "made righteous'.
See that 2nd part?

Salvation is God giving you His Righteousness, and that is more than just paying for your sin.
When a person is born again, its a 2 part process, which is the "new birth", or to be born again.

1.) God applies the Blood of Jesus to you, that resolves all your sin..

2.) THEN, God give you a NEW Spiritual BIRTH where you are literally born again INTO GOD's Holy Spirit by God's Holy Spirit.

So, see those 2?

1.) Sin is dealt with, and then 2.) the new Birth follows. = "new Creation IN Christ'"

The born again, birthed twice...our 2nd birthday is our SALVATiON.
This means that the 2nd Adam, has restored the born again to the position of the same righteousness that the 1st Adam was created AS, and was, until he sinned and lost his Righteousness.

So, all Salvation is, in a nutshell, is God restoring to each born again person, the original righteousness of God, that was lost by Adam when he transgressed.

 

[Sidon]

To be "under the law" according to Romans 3:19-20 means to stand guilty before God of breaking the law. All the law does according to the scriptures is to give us the knowledge of what sin is .

Remember that my Thread is describing why the law is given, first.
Its not describing the Law.

Think of it like this, , when a person murders another, or cheats on their taxes, or lies to their Pastor, then we understand the definition of each of these transgressions, but that is not why the law is given.
Its not given so that it becomes a dictionary that defines each iniquity we can commit, one by one.

The law is actually designed to be a spiritual mirror regarding God's righteousness that reflects your unholiness, = your own unrighteousness into your own eyes so that you SEE your own unrighteousness, as compared to God's Holiness.

Here is what an unbeliever does to try to keep from Trusting in Christ, as their pride does not allow them to be self honest.
They will say..>"well, im as good as you are, so, if God will let you into heaven, then he'll let me in also".
See that?
What are they not understanding?
Well, its the same thing that a believer falls into, who has "fallen from Grace", who thinks they can lose their salvation. See if you think you can lose it, then you are trying to keep it, so that means you are working to do that for yourself, and unless you are Christ on the Cross, you can't...
So In both cases, this person's mind has deceived them into thinking that they can compare themselves against God's righteousness, and EQUAL IT.
Hell is full of these commandment keeping hyper religious water baptized "do-gooders" who were never born again.

So, the person that says..>"well, im as good as any Christian"......may be telling the truth.
Maybe they are a better human being, overall, then most believers, but as compared to JESUS, the Holy ONE, they are FILTHY UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.
So, They have a problem, that only GOD's BLOOD can eternally resolve, and it has to eternally resolve it.... or its not resolved at all.
And that "unrighteousness" problem is the entire world's problem., as "none are righteous" "not one'.
And in that condition, you can't go to Heaven, as God can't accept you, and will never.

So, God came down here, born of a virgin, The Creator Himself.....John 1:10. to give you and me and us all HIS Righteousness, as "the Gift of Righteousness" and "the Gift of Salvation", as they are the same GIFT.
We the born again, only go to heaven for one reason. Its because we are "made righteous" by GOD.
This is what we have become, and its who we are, as the born again "new Creation" "in Christ".

So, again, regarding the law and why its given first..... its to reveal our unholiness , and from this REVELATiON of who you are as compared to God's holiness, you realize your sin, you realize yourself..... And then you have the choice to take God's "gift of salvation" and "gift of righteousness" and receive "eternal Life, (who is "Christ in you the hope of Glory"), .... or you choose to "die in your sins" as Jesus warned, and remain here : John 3:36

 

[fhansen]

Salvation is completed, and our righteousness achieved, as "the new Creation" 'In Christ", but our behavior, is based on our mind being renewed.
The Spirit is born again, but the MIND has to be renewed.
And that is accomplished when we only see ourselves as God has recreated us to exist as a "new Creation".

It's not just how we see ourselves, other than to acknowledge that, yes, God can and does want to make us into an image that He has in mind, modeled after His own image. We must also want it, as well, and cooperate with Him in it. He wants much for us, but also expects something from us. So we must also acknowledge that we can and do fail, and that this failure can be permanent-if we don't care, if we don't remain with and in Him.

 

[Sidon]

So we must also acknowledge that we can and do fail, and that this failure can be permanent-if we don't care, if we don't remain with and in Him.

Every person who is born again, has "acknowledged" their sin, and that is why they trusted in Christ to save them.

 

[fhansen]

To be "under the law" according to Romans 3:19-20 means to stand guilty before God of breaking the law. All the law does according to the scriptures is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *Romans 3:20 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith (Galatians 3:22-25). Not being under the law means we have been forgiven for our sins (breaking God's law) *Romans 8:1-4. T

Yes, and to be under grace instead now means even more-it means we're given the power, by the Spirit, to do what the law could not do.
"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. (Phil 3:9).

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, though testified to by the law and the prophets, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. Rom 3:21-23

“...just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:21

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

 

[fhansen]

Every person who is born again, has "acknowledged" their sin, and that is why they trusted in Christ to save them.

And to the extent that we continue to sin, we must continue to acknowledge it-in order to overcome, by His power, that sin that can earn us death.
"If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries." Heb 10:26

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 1 John 3:4-6

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9